The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Introduce yourself => Topic started by: FrankBlack on November 29, 2009, 10:02:34 am
-
Hi folks. Well, I'm in the no-mans-land between the insane, wasteful and mindless lifestyle of the Mon-Fri, 9-to-5 consumer and...well...hopefully a new life involving self-sufficiency, simple living and independence. The word 'smallholding' is relatively new to me - and that may give you an indication of how little I know. But I am working through John Seymour's brilliant book and am excited about what I'm learning.
I'm 44, worked in the NHS for many years (until I finally had enough last year) and will have a grand total of £90k to my name once my flat sells. I realise that this a meagre sum in land or property terms, but I need to make it work for me somehow, so that I can buy at least an acre of land and build a modest house/ cottage/ cabin on it, if not in Scotland then somewhere in the world that this small amount of money can set me up (Siberia maybe?).
I've reached a point in my life where I really am sick and tired of the dog-eat-dog life. I want to move away from being a consumer; being dependent upon corporations and organisations supplying me with what I need to live. And I want to learn all of the lifeskills that the majority of us sacrifice when we become dependent on others to supply our food, power, services etc.
The questions I'm trying to answer at present (via the internet) are:
1. How is land classified in Scotland and how do I go about looking for land that I can both build on and work for food?
2. How far will £90k get me if I try to make it stretch?
3. If Scotland is too expensive for such a venture, then where isn't?
I'm looking forward to learning as much as I possibly can from the good people of this forum and any constructive advice is always welcome.
All the best
-
Hi Frank
I doubt of £90K will get you very much up here. I presume you are in England somewhere at the moment. You can't even buy a decent flat in a town for that. You could try googling land for sale in Scotland, but I didn't have much luck. I'll PM you with a couple of ideas.
Annie
-
Thanks Annie. I didn't really think so. I'm from Scotland but lived in England several years.
I know the price of flats, houses etc and property is extortionate in the UK. I'm willing to consider living anywhere pretty much (not Siberia though). As long as I have a hope of self-sufficiency...well, 90% anyway.
-
Hi and welcome. You might get some land in Scotland then you might want to try to get planning permission to self-build but the old PP is a bit of a minefield. You might be able to get a cottage in return for work - try the Scottish Farmer. Also see thread on here about a smallholding on the Black Isle and about how much of a living you can make at this.
-
Try Ireland. You might just be shocked at what you can get here. Scratch the one acre idea, the more land the better. One piece of advice though......stay away from the flood plains.
-
Hello Frank ,
sounds like you have a lot to learn mate !!! Thats not me trying to put you off at all , just saying that living the life you describe is very VERY different to the one you seem to be used to . However it is not an impossible task , just a very steep learning curve , and as good to read as J S's books are , they do not even begin to explain what it is really like to live a self sufficient life style. Don't get me wrong , I like his books ...but they really just scratch the surface and tell you that this can be done and that can be done , they are really 'ideas' books .
I have no idea on what land you may or may not get for your £90,000 , but if it has a house with it , it will most likely only be a deposit !!!! I bought my 6 acres 7 1/2 years ago now for £8,000 , but I couldn't get it for that now, even in the reccession !!
Learning as you put it 'life skills' is a very personal thing really . How far do you want to go with backing off from the rat race ? How much are you prepared to go without ? How much physical work can you do ? So many things come into play , and each persons view will be different from the next.
If you intend to live as free of modern life's necessities as you can, then will that include no mains electric ? no land line telephone ? even no house ? What I am saying is that there is a balance that only you can decide on . If you have all the above mentioned things then they have to be paid for somehow !!! Yes you can have a generator for electricity , but how will you run it ? I am not sure if you can still buy red diesel now , so that leaves you running it on heating oil @40p a litre or more, as normal diesel would bankrupt you in no time . If you have a modern fast genny it will drink fuel like it is going out of fashion ...(which it is really ::)) so you would need to go for an old lister type genny . These are available brand new from India now , they used the old originals as patterns for the moulds and cast brand new parts from scrap . But even one of those will set you back the best part of £1,000 . However they will run on just about any oil you can get . Proper diesel , heating oil , old engine oil , rapeseed/canola oil , sunflower oil , even filtered used cooking oil . You can also grow your own rapeseed/sunflower/hemp , and get your fuel from that and use the waste as cake feed for animals .
There are so many different ways you can go living this sort of life , but you have to work out what you want to have , and what you are prepared to give up , before jumping in too deep . It is however almost impossible to get off the roundabout completely , there will always be something you need to pay for , and it isn't easy to do that without a steady wage comming in .
In no way is this post intended to put you off ... I say go for it ... but really do your homework first ... I live this life and have done so for some time . I still intend to go further off grid and be more self reliant than I am now. However , I have been doing the things needed to be able to live this way on and off for 40 years now , and I am still learning something new all the time.
If you want to ask any questions about this different way of living just ask , I will do my best to help with any specifics that I can but , I tend to do things my way , and that may not always be the best way or even the legal way sometimes.... :o (I bend the rules to suit my way!!! ) .
Cheers
Russ
-
A 4 bedroom house and barn, grain bins and 40 acres sold about a mile from here last month for $40,000, what's that 25K in pounds? This would leave you with ample monies to buy a milking cow and some beef cows and a small flock of sheep, plus enough to live on for a year.
Not everyone can get here but if you can then it's still the last best west, and it is only going to get better with climate change.
-
Thanks a lot for all the great replies.
Russ, I appreciate all you've written and am not put off by it. This isn't a whim for me, it's actually a development of my existing attitude to life and it's not from a place of just fancying a change or having a bad reaction to society. The conventional way of living is just fundamentally wrong for me, in my view - ecologically, ethically and dare I say spiritually and existentially. So the change is actually from a really deep need to live more in tune with myself and my surroundings and to step out from under as many agencies, organisations and corporations that interfere or hold some unwelcomed authority over my life as possible. The key word is 'freedom' and I also know that's a relative term. I don't want to adapt myself to the corporate-run world any more because to go along wiith it is to collude with something that is damaging and never brought me happiness. I'm opting out (as far as any of us still can).
I've made pretty big changes in my life as I've gone along, largely as a result of following what I believe to be right within myself. I've lived well and in comfort and also lived simply and rough and have a sense of the extremes. I know that this move away from the conventional way of living involves a kind of evolutionary leap in the heart and head and all I can do is get involved and learn as much as I can from people who walk like they talk. If it's not for me then I'll make the relevant changes and do something else. Even then my attitude will remain the same - preserving independence, self-reliance and simplicity, whether it's with dung on my wellies or tapping on a Blackberry (God forbid). But I know I can make this work. All I need is the right location/ economy to make the 'little' money I have work for me and the direct learning experience - starting very small and building up what I can do over time. Part of modern thinking is to believe that we don't know enough or somehow other people are more expert than us or that they hold some mysterious skill or knowledge that lies beyond our understanding. I don't believe this - I've learned that I can do pretty much whatever I turn my hand to as long as my heart is in it.
Anyway, speech over! Keep the ideas/ advice coming. Ireland sounds appealing (and rainy!) and, yes, planning permission and buying land seems intentionally obscure and confusing. If anyone can point me to an idiot's guide on the matter I'd appreciate it. Green belt, brown field, etc etc???
Canada sounds great CS, but the immigration conditions are so prohibitive these days that I doubt I'd get in, even with a Batchelors and 2 Masters degrees! I'd go in a minute if I could. It saddens me that I'll likely not be able to do this in my home country - Scotland. But I'll adapt my idea to whatever economy supports it.
-
Hi & welcome to the forum from a fellow scot ;D
I love your reasons for doing what you're thinking of - I totally 'get it', I'm lucky to be in the situation where I was able to move home, to the farm I grew up on, to begin/continue with the journey. And what a journey it's been !
There are highs (mostly winds and gales LOL) and lows, but whatever is thrown at us we just 'roll with the punches'. Smallholding in itself is unlikely to provide enough income to keep you going - most of us have to suppliment our lifestyle with some form of work - be it part time, full time, working from home - you've just got to find the right balance that's going to work for you. For example would a caravan with no mains services or running water be too much of a stretch ? I know that I couldn't function without my broadband ! (Well, okay so I could function - but I wouldn't be able to generate much income ;) I do wish you all the very best of luck and hope you find what you're looking for. Maybe this would be a starting point ?http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Land-Smallholding-Peebles-yard-6-acres-Equestrian-Uses_W0QQitemZ270480384767QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_HG_Property_RL?hash=item3ef9e322ff (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Land-Smallholding-Peebles-yard-6-acres-Equestrian-Uses_W0QQitemZ270480384767QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_HG_Property_RL?hash=item3ef9e322ff) I don't know of much else that's as cheap as this at the mo - but I'll keep my eyes and ears open and give you a shout if anything else turns up.
Karen x
-
Thanks for that Karen. Yes, that doesn't look bad for the money. Just need to get the flat sold first and then do some serious searching.
I'd be prepared to live very basically for a while if it meant getting the right piece of land etc. I don't mind a remote location but some sunshine/ dry weather during the year is a must I think! (I can do without broadband too). I even envisaged camping or some temporary shelter for a while on newly purchased land, weather permitting, and as long as the planning permission was on its way and I could keep my personal vision in sight.
I'm at the 'demystification' stage I guess - just trying to get a bigger, clearer picture of what's involved in weaning myself off capitalism. Ideally, eventually having as little reliance upon money as possible.
-
Hello and welcome, really really hope you get something...you will!!! What about trying out the place in on the Black Isle, it's posted in Marketplace...you never know, could be a good start.....
-
Thanks Sandy. I'll check that out now...
-
a nice cheap Luton transit , kitted out on the inside would be far better than any form of camping , and less likely to get any attention from the planners. They take a very dim view of caravans or even tents. I know many people who have gone the life in a tent route , and boy do they have fun with the planners and the council in general . Trying to live off grid is much more complicated than just doing it , just about every council body will have something to say against it, and if any land you get doesn't have planning ...oh my god .. by having even a tent up , you are changing agricultural land to residential and not paying rates on it !!!
What you can have though is a horse stable . It has to be for a working horse though ...then all you need is gas cooker/heater and away you go . You must never put a chimney in though ....instant change to residential then !!!! Very basic but just a few bits and bobs that would take you minutes to shift if need be. It really is a complete mine field when you try to live on a bit of land . It is one of their pet hates, and they will move heaven and earth to prevent you from doing so .
cheers
Russ
-
You certainly know your stuff. I knew the UK had really gone down hill after Blair's erosion of our civil liberties, but this sounds Draconian Russ! What on earth is wrong with this country that the authorities need to hinder the basic needs and freedoms of the citizen to such a degree?
I guess to avoid all this we'd be talking about buying an existing, established smallholding then? In which case it'll likely be prohibitively expensive for the likes of me.
Sounds like I'll have to look abroad afterall...
-
There are always round it though Frank !!
You sometimes have to think outside the box and play the buggers at their own game , and they have to go by the rules in the main ... I don't !!!!
The erosion of liberties is now about to turn into a complete removal of them ...long live the EU eh ? Thank god they stopped that arsehole Tony Blair from getting into power though ....still no doubt he will still be around next time we get to vote for a new leader of the EU ...er oh sorry ...we didn't get a say in it this time , how did that come about ? isn't the EU a democracy ? NO ..... ::) :o ;D
cheers
Russ
-
I've seen woodlands for sale that have permission for camping and caravans - try here www.woodlands.co.uk Their prices are high for the acreage but it might give you some ideas. A lot of them have fishing and shooting rights too.
-
I knew someone who bu9ilt a huge shelter/shed/barn? and told the planning it was for thier chickens.....they only had 2 but got planning permissions!!!
-
This looks interesting - http://www.fieldtofarm.com/home
-
I knew someone who bu9ilt a huge shelter/shed/barn? and told the planning it was for thier chickens.....they only had 2 but got planning permissions!!!
God - I wish my planners would believe something like that ! LOL !
I had 4 years of business plans, meetings, redoing plans for position, features, blah, blah, blah when I finally got the planner to say okay, that seems fine - just submit you're plans (again !) and they went to a different planning officer who said no- absolutely no way >:( And the original planner had left ! >:( >:( >:( Grrrrrrrrrrr ::)
-
Russ, no, the EU/ UK are definitely not democracies. They may have been at one time. I think the correct term for the UK structure is an 'oligarchy'.
Karen and Annie. Thanks. I'll check those links out Annie. I suppose the idea of building a cabin in the woods is probably too shocking for planners to accept. Does anyone have any idea what the rationale is behind UK planners? Or is just a case of 'it depends on the personal taste/ mood/ feeling of the individual planner'? That would make buying any land that doeesn't have planning permission a huge gamble.
Annie, what would be a decent price-range be per acre for land that you could use for agriculture and building a house on? Is iit a reasonable risk to buy land without planning permission in the hope that you might get it? If so, anyone any ideas what type of land this would be designated as?
-
I know people who bought agricultural land and then put rare breed sheep on it so planning allowed them then to put a static caravan on site.
They now a few years later have been able to build a house. So although it is a risk sometimes it does pay off.
I live in a village so although I bought what was agricultural land, it became amenity land as soon as I wanted to put horses on it and the price went up to 6k per acre
-
Thanks Anne. It seems from what a few people have said that a certain amount of bobbing and weaving is necessary if we are to buy land and use it for what we want. Are there 'rules of engagement' that we can get anywhere so that I can begin to figure out this whole land purchase and planning conundrum?
-
Annie, what would be a decent price-range be per acre for land that you could use for agriculture and building a house on? Is iit a reasonable risk to buy land without planning permission in the hope that you might get it? If so, anyone any ideas what type of land this would be designated as?
In Scotland, agri land is about £2000 an acre now but as I told you in my PM a piece of land with planning permission in Scotland for one house and a pretty big garden is worth upwards of £100K - even in today's market. That is because if you buy land and build, the selling price can be as much as double the build cost. I have no idea what the figures are for England and Wales, nor for Ireland.
If you buy a piece of land - if you can find any in the first place - you need to check there isn't a covenant on it which prevents building a house on it. I wouldn't take the chance of buying land in the hope of being able to build but I know it is done.
-
I though i would say hiya from me
not putting any twopennys worth in because at the moment i don't have any thought.
Linz
-
Playing devils advocate planners are supposed to protect the environment and the locality and even the people who pay their salaries!
-
When buying property or land ALWAYS check the planning file in your planning office to make sure nothing unwanted is going up around you.
Regards,
Morgan
-
when I last bought land (granted it was adjacent to my existing garden) I paid £4,000 per acre for farmland.
-
Just thought I would add, thats a great aviator and name you got..is it really you? You look like a film star :love: :love: :love: Whops, got a bit carried away but I just had to say it :-[ :-[
-
Hi Sandy - no, I'm not Lance Henriksen. It was either an avatar of him or Grace Kelly. But I couldn't see her in a pair of wellies, pushing a wheelbarrow down the allotment.
Thanks for the input on land prices. £2000 per acre in Scotland for arable land sounds reasonable. The £4000 per acre - where abouts in the country was that Fergie, for comparison?
I guess the next problem would be locating yourself in accommodation close enough to the land to manage/ work it. Whilst also figuring out ways you could build chicken coops and stables etc on it for housing rare breeds of....animals :goat:.
-
THEORETICALLY - any 'movable' structure does not need planning permission. But this may have changed in the last few years ??? So pig arcs, chicken houses (providing they're on skids for moving) and maybe even an open field shelter (again, fit skids, even if it never moves you can at least say it's able to be moved ;)) should all be okay.
The best bit of advice I could give would be once you've chosen your area/piece of land try and talk to the planners in that area - BEFORE you buy it. They might give an idea of what would be acceptable, should you get the land. Title deed searches will let you know if there are any covenantants or prohibitions on the land in question. Rare breeds do sometimes provide a wee bit more oomph when it comes to getting pp - but not always. Good business plans and providing proof of viability and sustainability all help with the process too.
Hope that helps, Karen x
-
Thanks Karen, that's very helpful. Have people on the forum found this to be the case in practice i.e. any problems with moveable structures in term sof the planners? How about a caravan or bigger mobile home? A tent's a moveable structure but someone said that they're frowned upon by planners...
-
Ooooo planners - they who we love to hate ;)
In my experience they're mostly ok, (although many of them just LOVE being little hitlers !) but have to abide by 'the rules' - problem is they keep changing the rules and not letting on >:(
Have a look back through old posts in the coffee lounge section - I'm sure there are a fair few on the subject ;) It seems to vary a bit from one area to another - some are more open to giving a bit of leeway, some not. The only way to know for certain is to go and see them with a view to doing lots of compromising. For example go in saying you want to build a complete ranch style house with full farm yard and associated buildings and let them 'beat you down' to a log cabin and a few animal houses ;D That way they feel as if they win ;)
-
Thanks for the input on land prices. £2000 per acre in Scotland for arable land sounds reasonable. The £4000 per acre - where abouts in the country was that Fergie, for comparison?
Lanarkshire, Scotland, but close to a town (ie, where much of the land is used for equine leisure activities).
-
Prices in Scotland drop dramatically once you hit the far north. Have a look at Caithness, Sutherland and Orkney where you can pick up a house with some land relatively cheaply, although you're likely to have to do work on the house. Planners here in Orkney are pretty amenable as long as you play the game and work with them.
-
Cheers. How's the weather in Orkney for smallholding Malc? I noticed that land prices seemed to drop further north. I don't mind remoteness (much) but remoteness and rotten weather would be a bad combo for me.
-
Well you know there are no trees there - does that give you a clue? or is that Shetland? ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
Could not live without trees around...I love trees...always have...always will!!
-
Yep, I'm guessing trees will be an essential part of any setup I have. Everything I've read so far says that woodland is one of the most valuable resources to have as a smallholder.
-
Can I ask why? I've often thought of buying a small wood, but just because I fancy having my own wood to run my dogs through. I'd love to hear a good reason so I can go ahead and pander to my whim ;D ;D ;D
-
I'm sure someone far more qualified than I could give a better answer. But from what I've read a wood is excellent for renewable fuel, building materials, food [mushrooms, nuts etc], flowers [for your bees]. I've heard woodland described as 'the most efficient way to collect solar power' i.e. in the form of fuel I suppose. I think if you coppice your trees then you can yield a lot of wood for burning, charcoal, making things etc. As well as being ecologically very supportive to the air, insects and animals. And a pleasant environment to be in of course...
-
That's good enough for me - but not being physically able to work on trees myself I will need to assess costs of doing that.
-
The planning laws in Scotland are changing - I believe in 2010. Then what is now zoned as agricultural will be easier to live on. We are living in a static caravan next to a shed. It just so happens that the shed is quite comfy with a woodburner and insulation - so we spend more time in it than in our static.
I know people on the west coast who are creative with interpretation of the rules. One friend is building a 'shed' that can't be seen from the road because there is a high bank inbetween.
I've attached a photo of our 'shed' in case it gives you ideas. I should say we got to this point by chance. We were building a house until the credit crunch cruched our mortgage. But actually we like it.
-
Thanks Kirsty. Didn't know that about the laws. Wonder what's driving it? Concern for more living space, or some other reason?
Your 'shed' looks bigger than some houses!
-
No, the planning laws already changed - see the Planning (Scotland) Act 2006. http://www.opsi.gov.uk/legislation/scotland/acts2006/pdf/asp_20060017_en.pdf
They are trying to get more housing built in the countryside but preferably with workplaces attached. It's to alleviate the strain on the city centres I believe. There are still very strict criteria which I am presently trying to overcome
-
Kirsty, your shed looks great ;D
Hope that woodburner keeps you cosy !
Karen x
-
Yep its true - the shed is bigger than my Grandmother's council house was. The stove is great as long as the wind is not due North.
Maybe its local planning policy that needs to catch up with the legislation then. I know that my neighbours are waiting for a change of sorts.
-
Yes, the various Planning Committees had such a workload that they are still trying to catch up three years after the Act was given Royal Assent! Marigold, can you PM me your address please - for your Secret Santa gift. I have it here from Monday's get together.
-
Hi Frankblack, just read your thread, not really been on here much this year but found it again whilst trawling through my favourites list couldn't resist posting on your thread. We live in the middle of Sweden, we bought a fairly large farmhouse with 16 acres split between agricultural/forest we have a 2 storey 78 foot barn and paid less than 40k. Only downside is we have snow from dec to april, but its great for recreation in the winter. I know taxes etc are higher over here, but since neither me or my husband work right now it doesn't seem that much of an issue.
-
Bulgaria .there are loads of houses with land needing repairs from about 4000 pounds ,the climates good plenty of sun good growing conditions ,easy to keep animals ,people are nice, its in europe no problems getting residency,
-
What is the Bulgarian health cover like? Do you have full cover?
-
The Bulgarian doctors & hospitals are very good the EHIC card is accepted as cover or you can pay NOI if working which entitles you to the same cover as a Bulgarian, or theres private health insureance, there is no NHS & no waiting times you can see any doctor & if neccesery are refered to a specialist the same day .most medication is available without presscription from the chemist. The rules are changing all the time & vary from area to area but here in the Veliko Tarnovo region everyone we have talked to has been happy with the health service.
-
how easy is it to speak bulgarian though? :dunce: we are looking at either holland[but would miss hills or southern ireland ] look at smallholding websites therye addictive ;D
-
oh p.s google earthships totally off grid self sufficient housing. made from tyres!and mud.brilliant ;D
-
oh yes also,cant remember this blokes name hes been on tv but he bought some woodlands,to make local sourced charcoal,and because he HAS to stay on site to prevent forest fires ect because the charcoal is made there too the authorities let him build a house.but he has to knock it down if he moves. :'( its gorgeous too. does anyone remember the programme?
-
That was Grand Designs. I can't remember his name but he married and they had a baby so they had to extend the house. It was a higgledy piggledy house with three main A frame supports. Absolutely riveting to watch and it's been on a few times since on channel 14.
-
Its not easy to learn Bulgarian but no harder than any other language, there are quite a lot of english speaking people here, most younger bulgarians speak some english all the people we have met try to understand us & teach us bulgarian they are happy that we try , we havent used a translater at all & manage ok with paying bills, insureing the car, shopping, doctors ect, the people in our area are friendly & helpful there is no way we could afford our house anywhere else & the weather is good,
-
Hi Frankblack, just read your thread, not really been on here much this year but found it again whilst trawling through my favourites list couldn't resist posting on your thread. We live in the middle of Sweden, we bought a fairly large farmhouse with 16 acres split between agricultural/forest we have a 2 storey 78 foot barn and paid less than 40k. Only downside is we have snow from dec to april, but its great for recreation in the winter. I know taxes etc are higher over here, but since neither me or my husband work right now it doesn't seem that much of an issue.
Thanks for that Anne. I'm surprised. I expected somewhere like Sweden to be prohibitively expensive. How are prices for everyday things like haircuts, cups of coffee etc? The snow wouldn't put me off at all as long as there was a decent spring/summer/autumn and I could afford to live there.
-
Its not easy to learn Bulgarian but no harder than any other language, there are quite a lot of english speaking people here, most younger bulgarians speak some english all the people we have met try to understand us & teach us bulgarian they are happy that we try , we havent used a translater at all & manage ok with paying bills, insureing the car, shopping, doctors ect, the people in our area are friendly & helpful there is no way we could afford our house anywhere else & the weather is good,
That's encouraging Sarah. Bulgaria is definitely on my list. I haven't been and need to take a look. Are you aware of any decent property websites over there? Also, how are planning regulations and do the authorities generally stay out of your way, or are they in your face like in the UK and France?
-
Hi again, no I am quite surprised also with the price of land and property as wages are certainly comparable if not better than the uk, of course in major cities like Stockholm and Gothenburg thy can compare to uk, though I still think you would get marginally more for your money here.Other things like cars, caravans etc are much more expensive. Fuel is pretty much in line with uk, but house tax is much lower, and if you find a property with its own well, water is free and tastes divine, and also many are fueled by wood so comes in handy to have your own forest as we do. Every day items can vary, when I first came over I thought that our food shop was much more expensive here, but actually I spend less here than I did in the uk, maybe thats because I don't buy ready meals anymore and generally cook from scratch. We certainly throw away much less foodstuff than in the uk, also in autumn we benefit from the fruit trees, berry bushes and also if you know what your looking for there is an abundance of fabulous mushrooms in the forests.
Spring is very short but because of the long daylight hours it means that there is a longer growing period every day so you can still grow the veg that you would in Uk. Winter is actually better once the snow comes as it brightens up the dark days(when you have a fullmoon you would think it was still light outside) and the cold is dry rather than damp. Anyway if you want any other info just ask
-
In bulgaria theres regulated land which is ok for building on & unregulated which is very hard to get planning permision for but building a new house is expensive & not neccesory as there are so many houses already built most with barns & plenty of outbuildings that just need some renovation, they usualy have 2000sq meter gardens & as much free grazing land as you want our village has a cowman, a goatman & a shepherd they take everyones animals out to graze early in the morning & bring them back home at night, most people have chickens & pigs in the gardens ,horses & donkeys are tethered around the village theres plenty of grass,There are a lot of estate agents most are charging in pounds or euros & paying the owners in leva .
-
Hi sarah, sounds fascinating where you are, just one question, who pays the cowman, goatman and shepherd?
-
Try this
http://uk.yhs.search.yahoo.com/avg/search?fr=yhs-avgb&type=yahoo_avg_hs2-tb-web_uk&p=property%20in%20bulgaria
http://www.property-abroad.com/start-here/
-
Im in Vinograd in the Veliko Tarnovo district northern Bulgaria , the amimals owners pay the shepherd ,goatman & cowman, I think its 3leva each per month, most of the land around is owned by the village it is like coopretive farming not individualy owned fields, there are a few houses for sale here some needing a lot of work & some basic but liveable, its a lovely place theres wild pigs, deer ,wolves, jackels & loads of eagles/hawks ect, most people grow all their own fruit n veg & meat,
-
Do you have children Sarah?
-
Yes 1 he goes to the village kindergarten ,
-
Thanks for all the info anf feedback folks. It's clear I'm going to have to do a lot of research on the net and travelling out to wherever I decide to look first. Bulgaria sounds affordable on my budget. Sweden sounds closer to the culture I'm used to but more expensive. Either way the next year is going to be interesting (assuming I can sell my property in this market).
All the best
-
(assuming I can sell my property in this market).
All the best
A house that is priced correctly will sell. Most properties are going for the values set by the surveyors rather than at a premium. If teh recession turns around as predicted later this year that may improve. Although in England it may stay the same due to their house buying system.
-
Its not easy to learn Bulgarian but no harder than any other language, there are quite a lot of english speaking people here, most younger bulgarians speak some english all the people we have met try to understand us & teach us bulgarian they are happy that we try , we havent used a translater at all & manage ok with paying bills, insureing the car, shopping, doctors ect, the people in our area are friendly & helpful there is no way we could afford our house anywhere else & the weather is good,
That's encouraging Sarah. Bulgaria is definitely on my list. I haven't been and need to take a look. Are you aware of any decent property websites over there? Also, how are planning regulations and do the authorities generally stay out of your way, or are they in your face like in the UK and France?
Just been re-reading this thread. Sarah is right with her advice. There are a lot of properties for sale in all areas of Bulgaria and some are better than others. Estate agents here can be a dodgy lot and there are no regulations for being an estate agent. Properties can be on many agents books and sometimes at different prices. Doing lots of research is the key and there are forums for ex-pats that can be helpful too. The best piece of advice is to not part with any money until you are totally sure it's what you want, whether that be buying property, building works etc.
We bought our house and other properties as a bundle because we wanted more than the average garden, ended up with 20,000m2 in a medium sized village but we did view the property then go back to the uk and think about it, glad we did as that actually saved us 14,000 euros when I found our house for sale on another agents site cheaper.
The cost of buying and living here is cheaper than the UK however getting any work is not easy and renovation costs have spiralled over the last 3 years due to material costs rising. There are some properties on ebay and one seller in particular is quite highly rated. Our friends came to buy a property last year and went with agents to view a lot for around 30,000 euro's, then spent a day with us asking the locals what was for sale and bought a huge, 15 yr old house that needs minimal work for just 12,500 euros. Buying direct from the seller is common here and can save a lot of money.
-
Don't get me started on planners.. I need planning permission to grow vegetables apparently..grrr..
No idea where the Black Isle is but have you looked on Lewis? My dad is looking there now and there are small houses with a few acre crofts up there for very resonable amounts. You only get to rent the croft usually but it'd be a start. Not sure what you'd be permitted to do though..might be worth looking at. Good luck wherever you end up.
-
I have to agree with Rustyme, its about what you are prepared to put into it. To dive straight in at the deep end, without any employment to cushion outgoings is risky, but your choice. If you have skills to offer or trade, they could be helpful as you might get help in return, without having to stump up cash. Also don't forget animals, veg etc take time to grow and mature, so what do you live off while they do?
But, if it's what you really want and you don't mind being cold (and i mean Cold) early mornings getting wet and muddy (no turning over and ringing in sick), long hours when your exhausted, putting your hand in your pocket and getting no return for months. Stress free it ain't! And watching your chickens run free and lay eggs, seeing your pigs grow heavy and farrow, picking your own fruit straight from the tree, seeing your visitors enjoy your life style, fresh produce and eggs,feeding your chickens and pig. Then go for it, enjoy it and make the most of it.