The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: georgielmgm on August 19, 2014, 01:40:07 pm
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Sooooo, I went to look at some ewe lambs yesterday and bought 8 :excited: They arrive on Saturday so I was hoping someone could give me some direction on things I need to do/get before they arrive? Such as tags? Movement forms? I need to ring someone and register my flock or something? Equipment? Very exciting but want to make sure I have everything sorted! :thumbsup: thanks in advance! ;D
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Have you got a CPH and flock number? Movement forms should be filled out by the person at the departing holding you will just have to sign the bottom bit saying you're the receiving keeper and if you're transporting them yourself you fill that section in too.
They should have tags in for transport, are you buying them to breed from or kill in the autumn? If it's the latter they only need slaughter tags, if not they should be double tagged although you can replace with your own holding tags but they must be red. They should be EID by now (electronic identification) I think I've got that right but stand corrected !
Equipment wise hurdles are very handy. Are your fields stock proof? Sheep will find the smallest of gaps in a hedge and be gone in no time :innocent:
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I have a CPH but need to check on the flock number, I got a letter with something in but can't remember!
I'm keeping for bredding, I saw they were double tagged already so do I need to order new tags with my flock number (if I have it) ?
I'm not sure, I'm having a few corners of fields from a farmer with beef cows so I may need some electric fence to start with? 3 strands should keep them in?
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Also, do I need to have a flock name or is that just pedigree flocks? And don't I need to ring the AVHLA (?) To register my flock or summat?
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Also, do I need to have a flock name or is that just pedigree flocks? And don't I need to ring the AVHLA (?) To register my flock or summat?
If the sheep are already tagged you don't need to change them for your own tags. If any tags are missing I would ask the farmer to replace them before you collect
Yes you need to ring to register your flock and get a flock number if you don't already have one. This has to be done within 3 days of the sheep arriving on your land & you need to state the purpose of the livestock - breeding etc. :)
Good luck
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Brilliant, thanks :) could I register before they arrive as I've got the time or do I need information that I'll only know once they are here? (Individual tag numbers etc.)
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Brilliant, thanks :) could I register before they arrive as I've got the time or do I need information that I'll only know once they are here? (Individual tag numbers etc.)
Yes you can register in advance. Just give them a call:
http://www.defra.gov.uk/ahvla-en/keeping-animals/registering/sheep-goats/#herds (http://www.defra.gov.uk/ahvla-en/keeping-animals/registering/sheep-goats/#herds)
http://www.defra.gov.uk/ahvla-en/about-us/contact-us/field-services/ (http://www.defra.gov.uk/ahvla-en/about-us/contact-us/field-services/)
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Brilliant! :) so they are going straight to a local farmers field, I need to ask him for his CPH and put that on the movement forms right? Instead of the CPH I have on my house? And I know the seller will give forms when I collect, but how do I get a stock of my own for future use? Sorry for all the questions!
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Georgie, There are three different registrations that you need, but it looks as though you're mixing them up a bit in all the excitement! ;) (Edit - you replied below whilst I was typing this, but I think it still stands!)
Firstly there's the CPH number. That belongs to the land. Somebody else will have to advise for sure what happens here if the land you're using doesn't actually belong to you, but I'd have thought you'd just ask the farmer you're renting from what the CPH number of those fields is, and use that?
The second thing is the flock number. That gets allocated by DEFRA to you as the registered keeper of the animals. You can apply for a flock number now, but you MUST do it as soon as you get livestock.
The third thing is the actual sheep movements. So, when you get your sheep (which MUST be tagged already, so as long as they are, you don't need to worry about that), you then register that those individual animals have then moved onto your holding and are now under your care. It's therefore only when you come to register the MOVEMENTS that you need the individual tag numbers etc.
You'll get sent a guide to all of this, and a stock of the relevant movement forms when you apply for your flock number, so I'd suggest you do that now, and then come back with questions if anything is unclear once you've received the info pack!
Hope that helps!
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Ok, so CPH is sorted. Don't need to worry about that. :thumbsup:
So flock number is next on my list; contacting my local animal health office to register as a livestock keeper, and it looks like I'll need the CPH and address of where they're going
And the flock movements is the AML1 form?
Why are all the websites so confusing uggh?!
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Do you have any previous experience with sheep? Do you have any kit? Have you registered with a farm vet? Do you have a farming or smallholding neighbour you can ask for help and advice? Have you read any books on the subject or attended a course? Paperwork is all very well but the welfare of the sheep comes first, second and third, in my book.
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Be careful about using someone elses CPH ... as when you move livestock onto that CPH you will incur a standstill period, which means your farmer friend can't move anything off his farm for X days. If you are renting land that will be used by only you then you should ask for a new CPH number to cover that land or for that land to be included in your CPH ... best is to ring them up and tell them what you are doing and they will advice what is best.
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Already been warned about the standstill period, will be asking him about it but they are heading to a beef farm and he doesn't take things to market or slaughter very often, thanks though! :)
I have done 4 seasons lambing with 2 different flocks, inside and out, sheared (wrapped fleeces) twice, been there pushing them through whilst been dosed, and brought them in too many times to count. I have no kit as of yet, I have money in my budget to buy that, and my mum works at our local ag store (discount) failing that one of our closest friends is a sheep farmer, I know he will be happy to lend any kit if I get stuck. I know which farm vet I'm registering with, will be doing that after registering as a keeper. As I said, very close with local sheep farmer, they are going to be kept on a beef farmers land to start with (also very friendly) and I guess this forum counts as a smallholding neighbour?
I have Tim Tyne's Smallholding book, Eddie Straiton's disease book, and numerous books on breeds, and showing. All of which have been read at least twice.
I have a medicine book, a flock register, and a 2014 diary.
Sorry if I seem a bit off, but yes; I am 17, I am a girl, I wasn't born into farming, the legislation is confusing me, I have worked all summer to save my money for this, spent months researching it, and years waiting for the right time and confidence to go through with it. If I'm not ready now...
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You go girl!!! :D
Yes all the paper work is confusing to begin with, they don't really explain stuff in plain english do they! :)
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Exactly! Especially when they keep sending you to different websites that say different things! Will give local animal health office a ring tomorrow!
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And the flock movements is the AML1 form?
If you're in England, it's ARAMS not AML1 form now, and to Milton Keynes not local authority (although many are using old AML1s here).
You can do them electronically but I still do mine on paper and check what they're recorded on the electronic system (on https://aphisengland.arams.co.uk/fsportal/account/login.aspx?ReturnUrl=%2ffsportal)..
And if I recall correctly, Animal Health will want you registered with a vet too (or that could have been on the CPH reg call, it was a while ago for me).
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Well done lass, i'm going to ask the all important question that no one else has.........
So what breed did you go for in the end after your long debate?
With regard to paper work, it's really pretty simple, get a CPH number, if they are not kept on your holding, either use the one there, or remark it as a separate strip and get a new one for it. So many folk though, just use their own (of course no one on here, i'm sure someone will now say).
Apart from that it's just the flock number, and you actually have 30 days from the arrival of your sheep / goats to call and get one.
With regard to basic kit, I have a back pack, which is my sheep 'go bag', it contains, a drench gun, a spray gun (for crovect, clic etc), a set of dagging shears, foot knife, purple spray, red marker spray, ear notcher, note pad and pencil, a tail/testicle ringer and rings. . . . . I think that's about it, and I usually have what I need. Oh and my crook, which is a wee bit bent now, but works.
Other than that it's hurdles, trailer, weighing scales and dog.
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I have done 4 seasons lambing with 2 different flocks, inside and out, sheared (wrapped fleeces) twice, been there pushing them through whilst been dosed, and brought them in too many times to count.........
OK, I think we need to do a deal here. I'll show you the paperwork bits (I think I've mostly gotten them figured out now, having totally messed it up the first time), and you can show me what to actually do with the sheep themselves :roflanim: .
Who'd have thought it could be so complicated eh? It could be worse though - you could be my 80 year old shepherd friend who knows everything about sheep but nothing whatsoever about computers or websites. At least you're young and will learn it all quickly! ;D
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I did think when I first looked it was on AML1 but when I checked today it seemed to be an online thing with the opportunity to register, seems I'll need to do that too?
I went for 3 suffolk crosses, 3 texel crosses, and 2 charrolais crosses, bit of a mix! :) all a nice size, conformation, and a cute face of course! ;)
Thank you that all seems to make sense, obviously need to make a shopping list! my mum already has a crook, so i'll nick that i think! :innocent:
That sounds like a good plan lol! :thumbsup:
Yeh, I'll get the hang of it, obviously need to ring a few people tomorrow! Just confirmed my grazing too so that is good :) they'll be sharing with beef cows, that'll be ok? Land hasn't had sheep on it for 15+ years so should be disease free?
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:wave: Hi great to hear a young girl so enthusiastic and going for it ... best of luck.
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Hope your sheep bring you lots of enjoyment. Don't worry too much about not understanding the paperwork, I do it for a large farming flock and I still get confused when I read through the letters that come through. It sounds like you know your sheep, and part of the fun is learning. If we knew everything I guess a lot of us wouldn't need to be on here :wave: how many sleeps till they arrive? :excited:
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I did think when I first looked it was on AML1 but when I checked today it seemed to be an online thing with the opportunity to register, seems I'll need to do that too?
I use the PDFs from http://arams.co.uk/Movements.aspx (http://arams.co.uk/Movements.aspx) and pop them in the post.
Recording the actal movement entirely electronically is a faff.
I only use the online system to check they received them and recorded the movement as (in case of inspectionssionce that is what the inspectors will be comparing with).
If you need an electornic version of the holding register they're at https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/sheep-and-goat-holding-register (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/sheep-and-goat-holding-register) (the Excel one has some PITA macros)
I think the paperwork gets worse if you claim on ELS/HLS or other schemes...
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Well done lass, i'm going to ask the all important question that no one else has.........
With regard to basic kit, I have a back pack, which is my sheep 'go bag', it contains, a drench gun, a spray gun (for crovect, clic etc), a set of dagging shears, foot knife, purple spray, red marker spray, ear notcher, note pad and pencil, a tail/testicle ringer and rings. . . . . I think that's about it, and I usually have what I need. Oh and my crook, which is a wee bit bent now, but works.
Other than that it's hurdles, trailer, weighing scales and dog.
Ear notcher ??? I think you would only used one of those if your sheep are mixed with another flock? I don't know because I've never used one in the 19 years I've kept sheep.
Before they arrive you will need to have your fencing secure and a water bucket.
Look around the pasture they are going on for any poisonous plants or dangerous stuff like old bits of fencing left lying around.
Ask the seller when they were last treated with an anti flystrike product, and get them to repeat it if necessary before they leave the breeders land.
It's worth worming them before they go onto your land, so they arrive clean. When we sell our sheep we worm then as they go into the trailer so perhaps your seller will do this for you. If you can, shut them in for 24 hours so they drop any worms on a hard surface that you can sweep and burn the bedding. That way it should mean no worms on the pasture.
Once you have them, get some dagging shears and foot trimmers - you can get small ones to fit a woman's hands more easily. There's no rush to get these as your flock should arrive clean and with good feet. With so few sheep, you will be able to get medicines by the dose from your vet if they are needed.
Hurdles will be useful but if money is an issue then usually something can be improvised or made until you can afford 5 or 6 two metre hurdles.
Once they are ready to breed is when you need to start looking at what you will need for your lambing kit, but for now there's not much which is essential.
Have fun :excited:
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Thanks for the well wishes :D
With regards to movements (I think this is what is confusing me the most) so I register with ARAMS and then just use the paper forms and online to check they have gone through?
Thanks for the equipment suggestions, all seems to be what I was expecting to need, does anyone keep antibiotics in stock so they can just inject when needed? Or is it strictly on a buy-when-needed basis? (very different to the local farmers! lol)
Think I'll wait until after they're here to register the flock, waiting for the farmer to give me his CPH number to put on movement forms! But have contacted local farm vets today to see if I need to register, or they want a meeting (?) or health plan drawing up or anything
THEY ARRIVE ON SATURDAY :excited: :excited: :excited: :excited: :excited: :excited:
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Fleece Wife - I find an ear notcher an invaluable tool, it is an easy way to keep track of things - i.e using it as a cull marker during the year, so that when it comes to the time to sort out the flock, your are not trying to remember just which ewe was a crap mum, had problems lambing, or has multiple bouts of lameness etc. Not for all I know, but plenty use it.
R.E A/B's we usually buy when needed, but often carry a bottle of Alamycin LA anyway, its handy when sorting feet etc.
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Congratulations, wish I could have done it at your age. :D
I'm suprised not more has been said about quarantine worming.
Look up on the SCOPS website for their latest advise, you don't want to introduce resistant worms onto clean ground.
With only a few sheep it's best to get drugs as you need them by the dose from your vet, cheaper that way.
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Thanks :)
Had a quick look, seems interesting, not sure I'll really be able to do it though as I don't have a yard or pasture that sheep have already been on, would have been useful to know more in advance, but I'm going to read the rest of their website, thanks, good info :thumbsup:
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The most effective way to deal with worming them, would be to pen them on a quarantine piece of ground / hard standing, take an FEC and then worm appropriately, leave them for 48 hours and then put them onto clean grazing.
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Don't know how far your new sheep have to travel , any new rams I buy are wormed before they leave their holding and if i sell breeding sheep they are treated one day, kept inside and travel the next day . so maybe speak to your seller