The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: waterbuffalofarmer on June 11, 2014, 08:36:49 am
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Hey guys I was reading the pig magazines I get from the BPA, for being a member, and I noticed that there is another extremely rare breed in the UK, its numbers are lower than the large black. It is the Hampshire. I have no idea why it is so rare because it has an excellent carcass and is a butchers favorite choice. Surely we cannot, as pig keepers, let this breed die out? I know that we have, sort of, saved the large black and must not divert attention away from it either, but we cannot afford to let the Hampshire die out. Could you all please tell me your thoughts on the subject? :wave:
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The Hampshire is a thriving American breed and in no danger of dying out.
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I thought the Lop was the rarest in the U.K.
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I'm not up-to-date with it all, but the American breed used to be called the New Hampshire. (I'm going back to the late 70s.)
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At one point in my pig life, I was considering mating my Saddleback sow with a Hampshire boar and had no problem finding quite a few contenders nearby, though there are more in the north and Scotland, way too far for me on the south coast. Think they are relatively rare as they are not really a British breed at all - they were all imported from the USA, but they do have a society here and do shows and that sort of thing. Apparently they produce a leaner carcass than a Saddleback, but perhaps the Brits just prefer our traditional, lop eared Saddlebacks instead, and which you can make lean with a well controlled diet.
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I don't know why the Hampshire is even listed as a rare breed given that it's not one of our native breeds. Said to be a great pig in all respects though.
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Large Black, British Lop, Middle White:
https://www.rbst.org.uk/watchlist-2014.pdf (https://www.rbst.org.uk/watchlist-2014.pdf)
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rare breeds usually mean "rare and british born and bred" but can mean rare as imported and rare in availability, such as mangalitza a few years ago. they may or may be prolific in their home country.
hampshires are american, but there are breeders in uk.
middle whites, large blacks and british lops are the rarest.
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We have Hampshires, I love them ;D. Pain in the backside most of the time though!! The pedigree ones are low in numbers but there will always be a place for them on commercial pig units I would think. I love the Hampshires but find them harder work than the Tamworths. Our Pietrain is harder work than the rest put together though!!
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We have Hampshires, I love them ;D. Pain in the backside most of the time though!! The pedigree ones are low in numbers but there will always be a place for them on commercial pig units I would think. I love the Hampshires but find them harder work than the Tamworths. Our Pietrain is harder work than the rest put together though!!
I have heard that they can have a sudden death syndrome, when under a huge amount of stress they commit suicide, have your pigs ever died suddenly, pietrain I mean. ???? ???
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We have Hampshires, I love them ;D. Pain in the backside most of the time though!! The pedigree ones are low in numbers but there will always be a place for them on commercial pig units I would think. I love the Hampshires but find them harder work than the Tamworths. Our Pietrain is harder work than the rest put together though!!
I have heard that they can have a sudden death syndrome, when under a huge amount of stress they commit suicide, have your pigs ever died suddenly, pietrain I mean. ???? ???
i think the stress gene has pretty much been breed out of the pietrain's over the years and is not the problem it was.
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How on earth does a pig commit suicide. :thinking:
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I have no idea, I did hear from someone that the Pietrain did have a sudden death syndrome complex, if complex is indeed the right word, when its under a huge amount of stress. However I always thought that to be a myth, I have never kept them myself, so I do not know. ;D
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rare breeds usually mean "rare and british born and bred" but can mean rare as imported and rare in availability, such as mangalitza a few years ago. they may or may be prolific in their home country.
hampshires are american, but there are breeders in uk.
middle whites, large blacks and british lops are the rarest.
The term 'rare breeds' is known throughout the world (officially recognised by the UN) to mean native breeds to that country that meet certsin criteria for which the Rare Breeds Survival Trust is the offically recognised body in the UK. You may have noticed in recent times since the criteria was tightened up that the RBST no longer lists breeds of Irish origin (Dexter, Irish Draught etc.)
Mangalitzas are not native and not rare in their area of origin. There are plentiful numbers of them across eastern Europe from Albania through the Balkans to Poland and beyond.
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Mangalitzas are not native and not rare in their area of origin. There are plentiful numbers of them across eastern Europe from Albania through the Balkans to Poland and beyond.
they were rare enough in uk to be sold for £300 a weaner.....not anymore though...ha :roflanim: :roflanim: :relief:
;D ;D
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I have no idea, I did hear from someone that the Pietrain did have a sudden death syndrome complex, if complex is indeed the right word, when its under a huge amount of stress. However I always thought that to be a myth, I have never kept them myself, so I do not know. ;D
Not a myth that they can drop dead, it is called Porcine Stress Syndrome. Heavy muscled pigs (like pure Pietrain) are more likely to carry the halothane gene. Think they start with muscle tremours and can be dead in 15 minutes. The gene that causes Porcine Stress Syndrome can be identified so it is now bred out of them so it is a rarer feature thankfully now of the Pietrain ;D .
Ours is just a diva :P
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I have no idea, I did hear from someone that the Pietrain did have a sudden death syndrome complex, if complex is indeed the right word, when its under a huge amount of stress. However I always thought that to be a myth, I have never kept them myself, so I do not know. ;D
Not a myth that they can drop dead, it is called Porcine Stress Syndrome. Heavy muscled pigs (like pure Pietrain) are more likely to carry the halothane gene. Think they start with muscle tremours and can be dead in 15 minutes. The gene that causes Porcine Stress Syndrome can be identified so it is now bred out of them so it is a rarer feature thankfully now of the Pietrain ;D .
Ours is just a diva :P
is there a similarity in this - to turkeys and broilers which can drop dead? or is that a heart thing
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I think there is, I know that over in America they have had similar problems with turkeys and the like. :innocent:
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i understood there were 10 officially recognised rare breeds in Britain, British Lop by far the rarest closely followed by Middle White. The 8 others are British Saddleback, Tamworth, GOS, Large Black, Berkshire, Welsh and Large White. OSB has only very recently been recognised as pre4viously it did not breed true. whilst the mangalitza is not of British origin (Hungarian) it is likely that most lines can be traced back to include some of the now extinct Lincolnshire curly pig which was british
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i understood there were 10 officially recognised rare breeds in Britain, British Lop by far the rarest closely followed by Middle White. The 8 others are British Saddleback, Tamworth, GOS, Large Black, Berkshire, Welsh and Large White. OSB has only very recently been recognised as pre4viously it did not breed true. whilst the mangalitza is not of British origin (Hungarian) it is likely that most lines can be traced back to include some of the now extinct Lincolnshire curly pig which was british
Yes I have heard that before. The mangalitza was brought in to replace the Licolnshire curly coat. 8)
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There is NO evidence that modern Mangalitzas carry any genetic material from the Lincolnshire Curly Coats. Both breeds seperately developed with a curly coat through a gene mutation developed seperately. A few LCCs were exported to Europe in the 1950s and it was assumed that they would be used to improve the Mangalitza BUT there is no evidence of their appearing in any European pedigrees of existing stock so either they weren't used or their progeny was never registered pedigree. The story was made up by some of the people who imported the first stocks of them as a marketing ploy to help 'sell' them to a sceptical customer base.
Mangalitzas and LCCs are totally unrelated.
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There is NO evidence that modern Mangalitzas carry any genetic material from the Lincolnshire Curly Coats. Both breeds seperately developed with a curly coat through a gene mutation developed seperately. A few LCCs were exported to Europe in the 1950s and it was assumed that they would be used to improve the Mangalitza BUT there is no evidence of their appearing in any European pedigrees of existing stock so either they weren't used or their progeny was never registered pedigree. The story was made up by some of the people who imported the first stocks of them as a marketing ploy to help 'sell' them to a sceptical customer base.
Mangalitzas and LCCs are totally unrelated.
oh !! must check my sources more thoroughly then !! following quote is typical of many easily found on internet
[i"The original Lincolnshire Curly Coat pig became extinct in the early 1970s. However, during the last century several hundred were exported to Austria and Hungary to cross-breed with, and improve, the native Mangalitza curly coat pig – itself a rare breed which had been facing extinction in the second half of the last century. About a dozen Mangalitza sows and three boars were imported to the UK, for the first time, in 2006."
plus following link http://www.pigparadise.com/curly.html (http://www.pigparadise.com/curly.html)
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If another breed is crossed in to improve a breed, how many generations have to pass before it can be discounted? John Ellmore, who began improving the Southdown breed around 1780, crossed in some Merino to improve the quality of the wool, which remains the finest native breed wool today. We have three distinct strains of SD, one of which has slightly flared nostrils compared to the standard "show" type. I can trace the registered SD pedigree history of these animals back for many generations. I'm in no doubt they're Southdowns and not Merino!
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Interesting if the Mangelista isn't related to the LCC, why have the BPA taken on the herd book.
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The same reason as the did the Duroc and the Pietrain - to make money!
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The same reason as the did the Duroc and the Pietrain - to make money!
would be very interested to find out the source for your most definite assertion as there is a huge amount od info which suggests otherwise
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The BPA is not dedicated to conservation issues or supporting native-only breeds. It is a commercial organisation (albeit a registered charity) which sees imported breeds as a business opportunity. Of all pedigree pig breeds in the UK, including those recently imported from abroad, it registers all but the British Lop and the Kune Kune.
My point was that the Mangalitza has no provable ancestry with the LCC. The implication that BPA only register pigs with UK origin is disproven by their already taking under their wing the Duroc and Pietrain before a Mangalitza ever set trotter on British soil.