The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Poultry & Waterfowl => Topic started by: Fleecewife on June 03, 2014, 07:05:00 pm
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:(This was inevitable :chook: :chook:. I have two cockerels, one old boy who's a Scots Grey, and a younger lad who's Copper Maran from Deepbrowneggs. They've been fine together until now, in fact they were good buddies, but today they had a very real go at killing eachother. Blood and feathers were flying and the old boy, being lighter in weight, began to come off worst, but he wouldn't give up. I caught him (plonked an upsidedown bucket over him then slid the lid underneath) and shut him in a spare henhouse to recover and calm down.
The question is, what ever do we do now? I realise that when they get back together they will just fight again until the old boy is killed. We have nowhere to separate them except in this shed which for free range poultry is a bit of a let-down.
We really like Napoleon, the old Scots Grey, although he's no longer fertile. He's so good with his hens, gentle and friendly, and so smart, but we have no Scots Grey hens left so I suppose keeping a cockerel of that breed is fairly pointless.
Dwayne the Maran is beautiful and has just come into his prime. I do want to breed up some more layers so he's ideal (not a single hen has gone broody yet since he matured ::) ) so he is the obvious one to keep.
We've had Napoleon for years though, at least eight, and it will be quite a wrench to bump him off.
What would you all do?
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I wish I had the room but I don't as I expect I will have to retire Gollum soon (my SG cock) and he won't be going anywhere. However, get on the Scots Grey chicken group on FB. Someone on there just got a SG cock bird a good home-bird wasn't old but wasn't doing the do. worth a try. tbh though, if that fails its worth giving him a good end-unless you have some old girls to put him in with?
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Oooooo ..... well I'm a real softie ..... that's why we have 6 cockerels. :-[
Do you think they could have been just sorting out the pecking order now that the young cockerel is coming into his own? ..... Ours have short-lived fights and so far have always sorted it out without any serious injuries and then peace has resumed. :fc: These 'spats' occur usually in Spring and then all is fine. Or am I just being hopelessly hopeful.
Would it be possible for the oldie to move into part of the shed and live with a couple of old wives? Perhaps they would then free range together without confrontation. Our cockerels do have more than one coop to choose from so they don't have to face each other at bed time, tend to stick to their own hens and by and large stay out of each others hair. A lot of ours are pekin cockerels though .... maybe different in personality and used to getting on with other males.
Sorry, probably should have been sensible and said 'dispatch the oldie'. :-[
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No way to have big pens and each their own little flock? I've got three adult cockerels at the moment but not housed or penned together.
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Thanks everyone. All my hens are totally free range during the day. Sometimes the cocks go off with half the hens each and do stay away from each other, but at other times the whole flock has wandered about perfectly amicably, with both cocks. The fight today went on and on for at least an hour and Poli was starting to get exhausted, bleeding from his head and comb. I couldn't bear it any longer. I'm quite sure it was sufficiently vicious that it would have carried on to the death. There simply isn't anywhere to make a big run to separate 'Poli and I would rather not take any hens away or they will lose their place in the pecking order.
Lord Flynn - I don't do FB but it's a good idea. Would it be possible for you to advertise him there for me, free to good home of course (but too ancient and tough to eat) please? I would really appreciate it.
I agree that if there's no other way, it is the kindest way to finish him off quickly, rather than let him be killed bit by bit. As well as being distressing for the cock, the hens are on high alert when there's a cock fight, not happy at all.
I feel myself getting closer and closer to that decision :(. I think I'm being so sentimental about it because we've had him for so long and we had expected him to eventually fall off his perch at a great age.
We hadn't intended to have another cockerel until Poli was gone, but then one of the chicks we got from darkbrowneggs turned out to be male and just what our flock needed - a bird which could sire some good dark egg layers.
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I think you are right about him dying in an effort to retain his top spot Fleecewife. I'm pretty sure he will just keep trying. We keep all of our cockerels separated by two fences at least a metre apart. Any closer than that and they try to fight, pacing up and down baiting each other.
He's going to be pretty miserable if you keep him isolated without free ranging and without hens. You really have no choice in his best interests but to despatch him. Seems a real shame though, but I appreciate how difficult it is to keep more than one cockerel -your whole set-up has to change completely and that's not an easy route to take.
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:bouquet:
I hope someone comes up with a retirement home for him.
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I will try, you never know.
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I think the issue may be just two cockerels, a bit like just two tups.
I have 6 cockerels, one for each breed I keep, who free-range, and they have their own pecking order and rarely any serious fights.
So another possibility might be, rather than to lose the old guy, to introduce another couple of males......
If someone can get him to me, he's welcome to live his days out here.
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Hi,
Know how you must feel especially after 8 years with a well mannered cockeral. Just a thought what about a local farm park or petting zoo if he is good with people.
Hope you find a solution. Dont do anything you may regret too quickly.
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Without wishing to be brutal it's highly unlikely someone will want to give a home to an old unfertile cockerel when there's plenty of young fertile ones available. And you can't guarantee that whatever people may say, he isn't going to die some other brutal death or be neglected when the novelty of rehoming an animal fades.
I have a similar situation - not quite the same. I have a young crossbred cockerel that I don't want breeding with my pure breds. They are normally all free range. I keep the cross bred one shut in a pen with one of my older hens and they are quite happy. Sometimes, if the pure breds have gone to bed early I let the others out for a scratch about. It's not a prison sentence to to keep them shut up if they've plenty of room. You can give them greens and weeds to mess about with.
So can't you just keep Napoleon shut up with another hen for company? He'll be out of danger and it must be better than having to fight for survival every day.
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If I were in your position, I would cull him, for the reasons others have said. I've known people offer retirement homes to various animals with great intentions and then either pass them off to other people or just get bored with proper care till they get caught by fox/run over/die of getting thin or of something you would know to treat, like worms.
A friend of a friend had a very old dog, deaf, blind, diabetes, and said to her "my dogs getting so old now, and her diabetes is becoming a burden to keep treating. I feel she has less quality of life, so I'm thinking the time has come to take her into the RSPCA rehoming centre." My friend was appalled. Whilst your cock may have the capacity to have a fine quality of life, I think either you have to either provide it for him (ie. build a pen, where he can live with a hen) or call it a day and pts. But that's just my opinion.
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fwiw I think culling/putting in with some older hens are all valid options but the FB Scots Grey page has a small membership and we mostly know of/each other and are advocates of the breed. Its not as though he's being offered free on Preloved. Other unlikely birds have been successfully rehomed on there. So if you never ask you never know, although i don't know how well an older bird will cope with a new environment-that's Fleecewife's call.
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Shame your not in my neck of the woods, having no cockerels he could have run with my girls, I really feel for you - a sad decision to have to make. :hug:
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Thank you Heather. I used to live in Norfolk...........
Mr F let Poli out this morning after a night in the alternative henhouse with one hen. I was confined to a chair and bed for the day so haven't seen him, but Mr F says he's back in his boss position, on the higher end of the perch tonight with his own little harem, with Dwayne down at the bottom, low status end. Apparently there was no fighting today, but I'm sure they'll have another go soon enough. Still, it gives us a day or two to see if anyone comes forward with a pet home for him. With any other cock I would be the first to say 'cull him' so this is a strange situation for me :thinking:
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I culled 2 this week but it was easy as the were vicious little 8^$]^?%$
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We kill and eat our cockerels FW but find it difficult once we've thought of them as 'keepers'.
Illogical I know but how it is for us.
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Ah well - that's the problem sorted. The fox came today, killed Dwayne and 7 hens, just Napoleon and 3 hens left. :(
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Oh dear, sorry to hear that :-\
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:rant:
The problem might be soved but what a $#|] outcome
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Awwwm so sorry to hear that. I know just how it feels
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Oh no :'(
:bouquet:
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:hug: not a nice way for you to find it sorted or to lose your girls. :rant: fox :rant:
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Oh no! poor you FW that's really tough.
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Thank you everyone for your sympathy. I know losing hens to the fox happens to all of us at one time or another, and we've had visitations before, but it's a bitch when it happens. I can't stop thinking about my beautiful, peaceful, gentle hens being ripped apart.
I'm now nervous about the survivors as I'm sure the fox will come back for them. We persuaded them to go in early last night, and they're still shut in this morning, although their house will rapidly get too hot. I'll let them out again when I can be hanging around - maybe I'll take a spinning wheel up to the orchard and sit and spin with them :chook: :chook: :chook: :chook: :spin:
Mr F seems pretty fatalistic that they will go too, but I'm not giving in without a fight.
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I know what you mean :( We lost one one night and then a few days later, broad daylight under the nose of my neighbour 11 were killed. It played on my mind too for ages after.
I don't know what else you can do apart from upping the security depending on your circumstances./ We left a light on over night as our bathroom over looks the coops and run, tried all the traditional things of men wee'ing round and human hair etc and then had to resort to trapping and shooting to reduce the numbers and take out the huge, huge dog fox that killed ours as well as several of the neighbours lambs, ducks, geese... fingers crossed for you FW
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Oh no, how awful! Feeling for you FW :hug:
Hope you can keep the fox away :fc:
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I am so sorry to hear that. :'(
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Thats really sad, I am so sorry, not a pleasant experience. I hope the others stay safe.
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The latest update:
One of the surviving three hens, which went broody on the day of the attack, has just hatched all seven of the eggs we popped underneath her :yippee:
Another of the hens is laying so we are getting some eggs, although obviously we've had to take down our 'Eggs for Sale' sign.
The third hen which laid like clockwork right through the winter is having a good rest now, but has at last got over her stress of the attack - she must have had a near miss.
And Napoleon is happy as a sandboy and thinks he's a daddy, although he's no longer fertile so the chicks are all Dwayne's. Doubtless some of the chicks will be cockerels so we'll start the problem all over again.
Fox hasn't taken any more so far, and they are happily going to bed early and getting up late to avoid it. It's nearly my birthday and my youngest son is getting me that catapult I want - watch out fox, because I'm a good shot, if out of practice.
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All good news :thumbsup:
We've a clutch of 12 at the moment, sat and being reared by two hens working together. All well so far :fc:
There are some chicks we think likely to be cockerels. We discussed whether, if we were certain, we'd pop 'em off now. Neither of us was able to answer ourselves. ::) Silly, of course, because it's easier, physically, when they're tiny.
But, it's a moot point, as we can't be certain. So we will wait until we are certain, and do it then.
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this is good news-you deserve some after all that :)