The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: madcat on May 29, 2014, 06:27:24 pm
-
I suppose this revolves around the food bucket of desire but how do you cope with sheep that are sulking because you had to do such uncomfortable tasks as foot trimming etc. Does the thought of treats overcome the memory of routine treatments and they follow it anyway.
How tame and cooperative can sheep be encouraged to be . If I ever give up boating I have promised myself I will look into keeping five sheep as fleece pets.
How easy are sheep to halter train. Does one sheep take the role of boss sheep and lead the others, hopefully not into mischief.
-
One thing that some folk underestimate is a good handling system.
Even without a dog, you can for the most part 'guide' sheep into a corner of a field (assuming you are doing it in small isn fields, and if not. . . . then get a dog!). If you set up a good pen and race system, you can usually minimise the fuss, by at least getting them into a space small enough to grab them with a crook.
Or make friends with someone with a dog.
-
I find the blue bucket is a god send. Mine will come to the bucket no matter what has gone on before. I guess they have short memories.
If I need to do anything to them I put their heads through a noose, made up of plaited bailer twine, which is attached to the fencing. I stear them over to the fence with the bucket and then put the noose around the bucket. When they put their head in the bucket the noose is pulled up over their head.
-
Blue bucket here too!! I they are way away in the orchard, i let the dog go 'bring 'em in', then we have a race and pen system. Now, the dogs not all that smart and can't do intricate stuff (yet)so he lies down and watches while i bribe them with 'the bucket' and jacobs crackers. Finally there's one ewe that won't come in, you can see that she really wants to get her head into that bucket but she wont' be watched so at that point I have to tie the hurdle to the gate, turn away and pretend to be pulling out weeds. During this time she'll walk in and I spin round and shut the gate.
I think with a small flock you can get to know which sheep will let you do what. I have 2 that will stand (untethered) and let me fully shear them, inject them, drench them. the rest? .... no chance on my own.
-
Our small Soay flock are bucket trained .... I think mine must be colour blind ;D. They don't care about colour of bucket. Just have to shake and shout. They will come running from a couple of fields away if the gates are opened. We then have an area that is set up permanently with hurdles. One hurdle forms a gate. We have a food trough in this area and pour their food in there. They get used to feeding in that area and consider it 'safe' and normal to follow us in there. If they need any treatment, we can then quietly close the gate while their heads are in the trough.
Our Soay are canny and don't forget quickly. We don't take any 'equipment' with us until they are safely locked in and only one person goes down to catch them up. If they see 2 people they know 'something' is going to happen and same if they see us carrying drench bottles, the crook, etc.
Also if anything 'spooks' them and they dash out of that area, we usually give up any treatment plans for that day ..... they have to calm down and takes them a day or so to do that.
Even our supposedly 'wild' Soay are relatively tame. In fact I wouldn't want most of them to be any tamer .... already have a couple that jump up you like dogs. Guess you wouldn't want a bigger/heavier breed to be even that tame.
Our friendliest ewes lead the others in to the catching area. Not sure who is boss exactly out of our flock.
We only had one attempt at halter training. They didn't approve but they were older when we tried. Lambs may have given in more graciously.
HTH ;D
-
Mine also come when called, to a bucket. They don't care what colour it is either. My dog is too old now to gather sheep.
I have a long 'catching pen' which leads into a short one, and then that empties into a race, which runs back along the side of both pens and empties back into the top of the long pen.
When I call them, I have already scattered food into the short pen, which they know. So they run into it, I shut the long pen gate to the field, push them down into the short pen, and sometimes then through into the race, depending what I'm doing.
The pens and race are made of wooden hurdles, tied with baler twine to wooden fence posts knocked into the ground.
Mine are Shetlands - I can gather them once a fortnight, perhaps once a week for a couple of relatively-untraumatic things. Any more often than that and they get wise and wary.
-
Ours are bucket led. They'll turn up to the drop of a bucket handle...let alone the colour of a bucket lol x
-
ours are bucket trained and whistle/call trained. in the early days i'd always whistle and call when the bucket was on offer and now they just come running even if i'm in the garden calling the dogs. it is amazing that pretty much every time we gather them in its unlikely to be a pleasant experience for them, hooves trimmed or something foul tasting shoved down their throat but they keep coming back . I do think that smaller flocks are just a less stressful environment at gathering up time. my neighbour who has hundreds of sheep seems incapable of gathering up without dogs barking, people shouting and swearing and quad bikes beeping- terrible bloody racket.- or maybe thats just him !!!
-
Of the 130 adults we have here only 30 are the original flock, so most have known nowt different, even the old birds are total converts lol, and the lambs know the score too :)
-
My lot all come running every time I go and call them. Except Sylvie ::) , who has always been a wary, canny beastthat leads her lambs away. But I know, and she knows, that eventually I'll get her ;) . I have 3 of her ewe lambs and none behave like her :relief: .
The downside is that they were easy to steal from the field :'(
-
Like the previous replies, I have always called and rattled a bucket and mine come running no matter what is in store or has been done previously. I just think that they are very food orientated, they are not so happy if no food, however little, is given when they get there. I have mostly had mixed breed ewes I did have two Jacobs at one stage, amongst 30ewes and they always would hang back and take a couple of others with them in the wrong direction !!! By the time they were 8yrs old they fell in line !!!!!! :relief:
-
I now have around 60 sheep on the ground in various places
When I had maybe 10-20 they used to come to a bucket most of the time, but as I dont feed them now and sometimes only see them once a week to count from a distance, there is only maybe 4 that would still come to a bucket.
I cant drive into some of my land and its difficult getting hurdles there, I have a lamb with a bad foot, first spotted 2 weeks ago and I still have not been able to catch it, round three is coming up this weekend, any mountain climbers and hill runners out there? or just someone with a well trained hill dog
Next buy will be a fully trained but near retirement dog, well I think thats the best option anyway ???
-
My old boss used to say if you cant catch it the foot isn't that bad!! :innocent:
-
My old boss used to say if you cant catch it the foot isn't that bad!! :innocent:
Yup thats what I have come to think now :-J Theres no way I am free falling off a ledge to catch the thing! hopefully he just mans up and gets over it
-
My old boss used to say if you cant catch it the foot isn't that bad!! :innocent:
YES!!! while we were on holiday the lovely lady called to say I had a lame sheep...but she couldn't get close enough to check it...that was all the reassurance I needed ;)
-
Bucket works well but yes you do need a pen, unless they are so tame you can go up to them and put a halter on. They do get wise though, especially if you have to repeat the gather a few days after the last gather - hence a need for a pen or some sort. That could just be a space between two gates or whatever, just an area that is small enough to contain them so that you can catch them easier.
The most important thing about trying to manoeuvre sheep is to learn what impact *you* have on how they behave. Your body language and your positioning have an effect on what the sheep will do. (and that of any other by standers too) Understanding their flight zone and the point of balance is important and will help you. Page 3 of this doc explains it:
http://www.eblex.org.uk/wp/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Manual-13-Improving-sheep-handling-for-better-returns.pdf (http://www.eblex.org.uk/wp/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Manual-13-Improving-sheep-handling-for-better-returns.pdf)
Just weaned lambs can be a pain as they haven't learnt the score. They need an adult sheep to show them the ropes, or you need a dog or a good pair of daps ;).
Halter training is easy - take the horse whisperer approach, firm pulls then reward forward movement by slacking the rope.
And yes, there will be a boss sheep :). And there will be a naughty sheep. Hopefully they won't be the same sheep ;).
-
Mine are slightly easier because they were hand reared but keep them tame by feeding every other day, they come to call too :thumbsup:
-
They'll remember if you feed them only once a month - it's reinforced in the run up to lambing and beyond. Use one call every time and you won't need to be carrying a bucket after a while.
-
Seen a couple of really handy dogs for your kind of problem Ladygrey, those that catch as well as herd.
-
My neighbour, very experienced collie trainer/trial man has a few dogs that will hold onto a sheep on command if necessary.
-
My mother has trained one the same, the command is "ah no not again, NOOOOOOO let it go you f@?)^%$ idiot!!"
-
Thanks for the replies. Foobar thanks for the link, most interesting.
I never thought when I bought a spinning wheel that I would become interested in sheep as well , life is a funny journey.
-
My mother has trained one the same, the command is "ah no not again, NOOOOOOO let it go you f@?)^%$ idiot!!"
:roflanim:
Of course, that is exactly how collies learn, too ! :roflanim:
-
I never thought when I bought a spinning wheel that I would become interested in sheep as well , life is a funny journey.
Whereas I never thought when I bought some primitive sheep that I would become interested in spinning! lol
-
Hmmm I only ever wanted a couple of pygmy goats as 'pets' - that kind of went wrong didn't it ;D As for sheep, never dreamt I'd own any (and now I love them!) - I'd love to use their fleece for felted soap but its just finding the time, maybe once my human kids have grown up I will have some time?!
-
I have 4 sheep as pets and they are very forgiving of nasty jobs and are happy to have a cuddle after as if to say its ok maaam I forgive you. Treats always do the job. I keep a bag of country mix and just give them a wee handful to keep them happy. Mine are very very tame tho and will actually come and sit on my knee if I sit on the grass. They were bottle fed orphans and have forgotten they are now about 5okg.
it is however quite stressful try to move them about, I bought sheep haters a couple of weeks ago, the rope ones and they are not too keen, party though I think because they are not too good a fit and keep slipping towards their eyes. I don't think there is enough indent at the back of the ears to hold the rope in place. I
. Thinking of trying a small pony 4 point halter to see if they work better. I have mine in a a farmers field where there are often cows so I have a bit of a stress getting them out to take them to my garden nearby when I want to do anything.
-
it is however quite stressful try to move them about, I bought sheep haters a couple of weeks ago, the rope ones and they are not too keen, party though I think because they are not too good a fit and keep slipping towards their eyes. I don't think there is enough indent at the back of the ears to hold the rope in place. I
. Thinking of trying a small pony 4 point halter to see if they work better. I have mine in a a farmers field where there are often cows so I have a bit of a stress getting them out to take them to my garden nearby when I want to do anything.
Perhaps you don't have it on tight enough, or they are made of rope that is too thick. Some calf halters are marketed as sheep halters but they are really a bit too big for sheep in my experience, unless you have very big sheep :).
This place do sheep headcollars, not cheap though. And size will depend on what breed you have. http://llugwy-farm.co.uk/tackroom/sheep_headcollars.asp (http://llugwy-farm.co.uk/tackroom/sheep_headcollars.asp)
-
My little Shetland flock escaped, on the same day my neighbour brought loads of his 'big white sheep' up from his main holding, to the fields next to mine. So I had to get mine out from in amongst his flock.
I walked in and rattled the bucket, and called. And a flock of little coloured Shetlands followed me right through the middle of the big white flock, and back into my fields.
So my point is that you don't need halters, to get them out of a mixed field. Teach them that you are the source of all goodies, and teach them a call at the same time. ie go right up to them, sprinkle a bit of tasty food from a bucket and call. Even if you're only a foot away. You're aiming to get the association in their mind between the call and the food. Keep increasing the distance, til you call and they come to you for food, even in the same field. Make sure you don't feed the cows too, you don't want them learning the call=food thing too!
Once you've got that sorted, you can move your sheep out of the field, from in amongst other animals, by shaking a bucket and calling.
-
We have a narrow strip - a runway - running along the length of the bottom of the paddocks. All the paddock gates open into it. When we want the sheep we just open the gate and they come running. We can then herd them up the yard end and race and do whatever we need. One person can do it.
-
My hubby says i'm the collie dog! :-J
we have two completely hopeless collies which we tend to leave in the truck when catching the sheep.
Ours aren't bucket trained as such but we do have a tame one in each flock. We have 4 flocks of different breeds and in each one is an old girl or hand reared orphan who tends to lead the others in.
We also have catch systems of fencing which funnel the sheep down to where we want them to go. It's so much easier if you have a fence or race you can push them up to then keep moving them on to a gateway etc etc.plus we move them around a lot so they get used to being moved by people. some of the older girls know exactly where to go and we have to run to keep up. plus we always reward with a few treats/ nuts when they get to where we want them
-
how many sheep in this 'very small flock'?
I now have around 60 sheep on the ground in various places
When I had maybe 10-20 they used to come to a bucket most of the time, but as I dont feed them now and sometimes only see them once a week to count from a distance, there is only maybe 4 that would still come to a bucket.
I cant drive into some of my land and its difficult getting hurdles there, I have a lamb with a bad foot, first spotted 2 weeks ago and I still have not been able to catch it, round three is coming up this weekend, any mountain climbers and hill runners out there? or just someone with a well trained hill dog
Next buy will be a fully trained but near retirement dog, well I think thats the best option anyway ???
i'm a hill running, mountain climbing energetic mental 15 year old but in Kent :( sorry
Cheers Ed