The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: fiestyredhead331 on May 27, 2014, 02:27:07 am
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it was the one thing that I hated my grandad for, cutting the tails. I wouldn't speak to him for days after and was the one time I wouldn't set foot near the sheep! Mind you I was only about 6 but its a vision that stayed with me.
Ourselves and my parents now ring all the tails but driving down the road today I saw 2 seperate flocks all with the tails very recently cut.
I didn't think anyone did it anymore, the rings are cleaner and surely safer as less risk of infection etc?
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Not everyone has a system whereby they can ring tails within the short time allowed
I haven't mutilated any lambs for many years until this year and had forgotten just how harsh it can be on very young animals >:(
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if they are ringing the wethers then it takes 2 extra seconds to ring the tail?
Its one of those things that I can't bear to see, I do wonder though what the visitors to the area make of it as these lambs are all out on the road with blood all down their legs :-\
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I didn't realise anyone still did it that way. Its not hard regardless of any system to band the tails if you want them shortening.
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I thought cutting tails was now illegal.
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If not ,it should be. :o
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I put rings on the tails within 24 hours, it doesn't take long to do. I always assumed that the longer it was left for the worse it would be for the lambs, better blood supply etc....
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recommendations are that they are done within 7 days, or after but only with an anaesthetic. I do mine within 24 hours, dipping navel etc all done in one go.
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Legally, you must ing within 7 days.
I think they barely notice the ring on the tail.
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As Tim says, it depends on your system, if you can ring in the allotted time frame.
But aye, it's brutal, and probably belongs in the past.
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when you consider the outcry over the docking of dog's tails and whether or not it should be banned, no-one would stand for a dog to have their tail docked with knife so why should it be any different for sheep?
Maybe that's part of the reason why I opted for the breeds I have that don't require docking apart from a cheviot wether I adopted for a cheviot ewe I have that lost her lamb this year.
Those sheep farmers who work on huge numbers I thought would have a better system in place for these things than I probably do as its their main source of income?
Saying that, the people I refer to in my OP are not large scale by any stretch of the imagination but are what I would call 'old school'......thats the way its always been done etc which IMHO doesn't look good for the rest of us who opt for the more humane way ???
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Out of interest what sort of systems wouldn't allow for you to ring in the first 7 days?
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Out of interest what sort of systems wouldn't allow for you to ring in the first 7 days?
Extensive, minimal intervention systems
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But extensive systems generally use those breeds that require minimal interference ie.don't need docking, or they do everywhere around us, might be different in different areas I suppose and if they don't use the hill/upland types they would normally lamb indoors or in smaller paddocks where its not that difficult to ring a tail in the first day. I wouldn't really say minimal interference systems would involve chopping off the tail either.
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I wouldn't really say minimal interference systems would involve chopping off the tail either.
I don't think I implied they would! ???
You asked what sort of system wouldn't allow for you to ring in the first 7 days, and that's the question I answered.
Had you asked, "What sort of system requires cutting lambs tails at a later age?", then I'd have said, "The wrong system."!
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That about sums it up Sally.
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I used to work for a guy who cut his lams tails with a hot iron type blade that attached to a gas cylinder. The knife cut the tail like it was going through butter, only took a second and to my mind seemed more humane than the longer pain that ringing must cause. Never seen one since......
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The new Zealanders who invented the elastrator are swinging more towards hot irons , they say the wound heals faster and causes less infection and fly problems .. Hot iron tailing has been around for ever using irons heated in a fire and a wooden block to chop onto .
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so it's essentially cauterising the tail? sounds better than just cutting but still sounds painful
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Cutting lambs tails with a knife - the 'macho sŁ&„' element of farming. Not necessary and not impressive.
I accept that rings cause some pain. Don't quite like the sound of hot irons, a cut and a burn. Thinking how much burns hurt when I do them to me, and for how long they hurt - hot iron tailing sounds painful to me :-\
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Is ringing the tail painful? They don't react to it in any way that I can see, unlike castration rings where they often stagger away and drop to the ground feeling crappy. I guess without being on the receiving end it's impossible to know.
Given how dirty some of the long wool breeds can get after being on new grass I always assumed that tail docking was for practical reasons, ie helping prevent fly strike from dirty behinds. I had a ewe with an overlong tail once who regularly had trouble conceiving, the poor old tup couldn't get in. When he did manage though, she always had triplets or quads.
Does anyone know the actual reason that we tail dock?
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I always assumed that tail docking was for practical reasons, ie helping prevent fly strike from dirty behinds. I had a ewe with an overlong tail once who regularly had trouble conceiving, the poor old tup couldn't get in.
Does anyone know the actual reason that we tail dock?
Exactly the reasons you list.
Ewes of hill breeds may be left long tailed as they need the cover for the udder over winter. Plus they store fat in their tails; it is said that a Swaledale can live for a week (or it may be a fortnight) on the fat in her tail! In order to be sure the tup has free access they are 'crutched' a week to 10 days before the tup goes in - the tail is shaved at the level of the vulva ;)
Abbatoirs probably do have a preference for docked fat lambs. Anything which could contaminate the meat is a problem, of course, and a dirty backside is one such. They can reject lambs which pose a risk of contamination, so we always crutch anything even a tiny bit dirty when we send them off, whether they are docked or not.
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The mart I use has a unit set up where they crutch shear any prime lambs before they go in the sale. It makes sense as a better price for the sellers means a better commission for themselves.
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We dock before they go out, with rings, baz does that, he has a very good eye for it. I don't like the idea of cutting, due to open wound but the cauterising technique does make some sense to me, sealing the wound somewhat. There s no real competition though V ringing x
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I have cut and still do cut lambs tails- in Australia last year we cut over 43,000 tails with a gas iron/ and or knife. It actually works out a lot more humane and has much less of a lasting effect on the lamb and its development, unfortunately it does look harsh and is probably initially more painful, but heals a lot quicker and is a lot less prone to infection if done properly. If you dont beleive me try putting an elastrator on your finger and leaving it there for an hour- obviously this will hurt a lot less than cutting your finger off but imagine the constant pain for 2 weeks. A few other things I found out when cutting tails- make sure any cuts are between the 3rd and 4th joints you can feel, if you don't cut between the joints and go through the bone it wont heal as quick. Also vets are actually recommending cutting with a regular knife rather than gas as it heals quicker- apparently because the gas knife burns the lamb has to recover from the cut and a burn as well. if anyone has any counter points or questions let me know and I would be happy to answer.
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Another reason to keep hair/shedding sheep as they don't have woolly tails that collect dung and hence don't need mutilating