The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Goats => Topic started by: highhorse on May 12, 2014, 12:47:27 pm
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:goat:
hi
i am thinking of keeping a few goats, for breeding purposes. needs to be a breed which is in demand and kind to work with as i have children.
so can anyone reccommend a mainstream or rare breed?
will good 'normal' stock fencing keep them in? ( i remember i had a couple of wee ones once who used to get everywhere!!)
can they live out all year with good shelter?
all advice welcome.
thanks :)
x
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The breeds considered to be in need of protection are: Golden Guernsey, pure Toggenburg & pure Saanen. The British Saanen is a created breed as is the British Alpine & Anglo Nubian.
The AN is very popular because of its many colours but is not a breed for a novice.
On balance I would recommend the Saanen, as the breed is docile and gives plenty of milk.
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If you're not bothered about milk, then pygmy goats are brilliant fun and easy peasy to keep. Females sell at around £250 is the going rate (ridiculous I know) and you can sell the castrated males for around £100-£150.
With pygmies you don't have to 'do something' about the males, they are sellable on the cuteness factor as opposed to castrated larger billies that no-one really wants. Birthing on the whole is easy with goats.
Your human kids will love them, they are like little dogs and love you to bits.
If it's milk you're after, you'll get enough for a cup of coffee from a pygmy, but not much else. ;) They are a good introduction to goats though and you could always sell them on if you fancy something bigger.
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Get yourself a few goat books from your local library and once you have read through them go and visit some local goatkeepers and see what's involved. Only way to decide I think is to get practical experience, so volunteering to help someone is good.
Goatbooks (except for legislation and veterinary advice) have not changed much in the last 50 years or so... (on management, feeding practice, stable layouts etc etc).
Oh and goats are a 365-days-job - milking 2x per day, feeding at least twice per day too, and no mine do not live out in winter. Goats do not like rain, most of them don't like snow either.
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If you're not bothered about milk, then pygmy goats are brilliant fun and easy peasy to keep. Females sell at around £250 is the going rate (ridiculous I know) and you can sell the castrated males for around £100-£150.
With pygmies you don't have to 'do something' about the males, they are sellable on the cuteness factor as opposed to castrated larger billies that no-one really wants. Birthing on the whole is easy with goats.
Your human kids will love them, they are like little dogs and love you to bits.
If it's milk you're after, you'll get enough for a cup of coffee from a pygmy, but not much else. ;) They are a good introduction to goats though and you could always sell them on if you fancy something bigger.
yes i thought about pygmy goats! dont want milk, would breed but not in huge numbers, maybe have 4 or 5 females?
what are the billys like in temperament? im assuming he would be kept seperate apart from when doing his duties? does he need to be anything special or will any good quality male do?
what are they like for escaping? i have stock fencing.
x
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Your billy would need a companion for when he's not busy during the mating season (ie. autumn to spring) so a castrated boy would be good for that. A lot of goatkeepers tend to take their females to visit a CAE tested billy elsewhere when they come into season, particularly as billies are not all that easy to handle for novices.
I think all goats will take a chance if they see a comprimised fence! none are more escape artist than another although I've heard rumours that AN's are more prone to being cheeky for getting out ;) Having said that, our toggenburg wether & saanen doe are the first out here - they'll even chew their way out. Stock proof fencing AND electric wire top and midheight are what I'd recommend. They sail over normal SP fencing like bambi...
I would not go into it without spending some time with goat keepers though, the learning curve for me was immense and we've had tragedies along the way. Into my 4th year of goats now and starting to feel a bit more comfortable and confident around keeping them and knowing what to do when one becomes ill (and they do...usually the day you are due to go away or christmas morning...)
Mine live out all year with ample shelters for 2 goats in each. One of my togg's loves snow but he's probably an exception.
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Hi, we started thinking about getting goats April 2013, did loads of research bought lots of books visited a local goatkeeper and had loads of questions ready to ask her, got registered, movement forms etc.
Then we did the 4+ foot fencing for the pen, got the sheds & shelters up got trailer sorted, food hay straw etc ready and then in July 2013 we were all ready so we started looking for some girls!!
The 1st we looked at were gorgeous as all are, a nanny with 2 female kids but we went in with them and they were scatty & horned, so we walked away! When we went to the next place we did buy a15 month AN and a 3 month Tog x, very friendly and used to people, by September we went and bought another 2 a Saanen and a Saanen x, these were very scatty could not get near them(we didn't get to go in with these before buying), after we caught them to cut feet they changed and are so friendly now.
In January we bought a 100% Boer billy (meat goat) witjh our friends for breeding as any billies born will go for meat so no problem if we have male kids, we just wanted goats as pets and the milk.
Joined a local smallholders club & goat club and now this site for advice and support, although not been at this a year yet we are really glad we went for goats, happy with all we have learnt so far and the next thing is kidding which will be in about 5 weeks, and I am really excited about it but also scared to bits incase anything goes wrong!
We only got 1 mated as we want to break ourselves into kidding and milking etc slowly.
Make sure you get disbudded goats, our fences are now about 5 foot high as we did have a high jumper although she didn't go anywhere just stood the other side of fence as her friend was still in pen and don't go far away from each other, and make sure you go in with them before you buy so you know if well handled as it does make a big difference! If you want to breed get one ready, in kid or with kids at foot, if you start with all kids you will be feeding for a long time before breeding age. Also check out all the plants trees that are poisonous to them.
Good luck with it all, they are very rewarding animal but full time! Well worth it though!
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why disbudded Trixie?
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Most like disbudded as stops accidents with the horns as they do get in the way and amazingly it is quite sore when they knock you even gently.
Having said that I think it depends on breed, I have boer x and getting 100% kids and they will have horns but they curve back out of the way. Unlike my AN x which has vertical horns and they are a pain for all as she pokes the others in the eye every time she turns round and I have to watch I don't bend down as she puts her head up. I've had her 2 years and no mishaps.
I won't disbud again unless I can find a vet to do it properly as the scuds are more trouble. If the kids get heads stuck in fence it's harder to free them and they are very rough.
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yes i thought about pygmy goats!
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what are they like for escaping? i have stock fencing.
:roflanim: One of my enduring memories, always makes me cry with laughter, is being at Lanark Rare Breeds Sale August 2011, watching the impossibly cute Pygmy Goat kids getting sold. For some reason they decided to put the wee wee ones in the ring one at a time - and not surprisingly the wee wee ones didn't want to be on their own.
Which is how it became clear to the assembled watchers, buyers and the auctioneers that a pygmy kid is not as wide as the gap between the gate posts and the gates in the auction ring at Lanark... :roflanim:
(That was the year the piglets ran around the livestock pens, someone captured that one on video but I've never seen a vid of the pygmies.)
My BIL has a saying, "If water can get through a gap, a pet lamb can get through that gap." I suspect it is completely true for pygmy goats... ;) :D
But I'm not a goatkeeper so you shouldn't listen to me on this topic. :)
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Shygirl - disbudded yes because of accidents, we have a grand child and were advised to always get disbudded as even though usually ok with horns only got to pick head up quick or turn round and could have your eye out, one of our females is a head butter and I guess always will be obviously no horns so it doesn't hurt but would be different if she had them. Saying that the billy has got horns and they are dangerous and clumsy. He is not a year old yet and still playful but my OH has had a few bruises and he somehow always manages to get them hooked in his pockets and when you stroke him you have to be careful as if he puts his head back quick he could snap your arm in a second, also he has hooked them under top rail of fence and kept pulling back- broke 1 off! he is now in a stronger built metal fenced pen! Also for us as we have an outlet for the billies (meat) Have not checked all - but the local abattoirs where we live won't take goats with horns they do take sheep with them, all the meat goats I see on tv have horns. It is expensive around this area to get them disbudded and have checked that the vets are used to treating goats and they were recommended by goaty people so :fc:
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I'm inclined to agree about horns if you have children/grandchildren/are not used to goats etc
we have a horned girl and I've had a horn lodged up my ribcage before now (accidentally because she's a gentle little thing but these accidents do happen)
Having said that the disbudded goats have caused me more grief in terms of getting their heads stuck in fences as the horn scurs then prevent them from pullign them back through! also local vets aren't always good at disbudding and its traumatic at times seeing damage.
Golden Guernseys could be the perfect breed for you... gentle, rare breeds, demand at farm parks for their kids etc?
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I'd have to say pure Saanens as that's what I have and, in my experience, they are lovely docile goats. I wouldn't be without mine.
Whereabouts are you, Highhorse? I'm in Shropshire and my goats and I are always happy to be visited.
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I love my Toggs!
They are lovely and friendly, full of character, can be full of mischief (but aren't they all, thats we luv 'em), slightly smaller and easier to handle the the 'improved' versions (BT's), pure Toggenburgs (and Saanens), (+GG's?) are in a closed herd book, they can all be traced back to imported goats, my biggest problem is finding a male near enough for a quick visit in Autumn.
And that beautiful long hair is a delight to see out in the sunshine
Looking at a recent BGS journal, they need help, 2012 only 30 female kids were registered anywhere in the UK, an improvement in 2013 at 41, but only 17 breeders,
I have normal stock fencing, with a single electric fence strand running round the inside, but haven't used the electric yet this year.
I keep mine in the barn, turning them out on good days, but they have an open shelter (like a big table) for if it rains, they'd be happy with a field shelter to sleep in and when weather is bad. They do stay out in a bit of rain when it's warm, but I wouldn't leave them out in cold and wet. The boys lived out, sleeping in a field shelter till Feb last year. (then :hungry: :yum: ).
So that's my case for Toggs, :) .
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if i had good grazing and didnt already have bagots, i would seriously look at boers. if think there is a good market for decent goat meat.
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BTW - has anyone else noticed goats always seem to be smiling? or is it a smirk, after all, they do seem to have us (me) well trained :) .
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That's because goats are happy animals. ;D
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It's because they know they are going to do a 'silent but deadly' as soon as you bend down to feed them
:D
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It's because they know they are going to do a 'silent but deadly' as soon as you bend down to feed them
:D
Come to think of it - I can think of many variations of that one, and lucky mine don't have horns.
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You could be right goosepimple. :roflanim: