The Accidental Smallholder Forum

Livestock => Goats => Topic started by: tattycat on May 04, 2014, 05:28:12 pm

Title: Argh. How I hate debudding!!! :(((
Post by: tattycat on May 04, 2014, 05:28:12 pm
As stated.  I hate it. However I now have 2 girls with horns and know first hand the problems with horns.
BUT there's the pre kidding worries, the post kidding worries, the are they suckling nd has mom cleared out properly THEN you have to go burning holes in the little heads. Poor babies. One of my little girls runs away every time she see's me now nd hides behind Mom....nd I didn't debud her..... :gloomy:
Title: Re: Argh. How I hate debudding!!! :(((
Post by: jaykay on May 04, 2014, 06:37:10 pm
I'm so glad Old English (and my rescued pygmies) keep their horns. Never had a problem with them. You have to be 'horn-aware' but that's all. I'd hate disbudding too!
Title: Re: Argh. How I hate debudding!!! :(((
Post by: Anke on May 04, 2014, 08:41:40 pm
As stated.  I hate it. However I now have 2 girls with horns and know first hand the problems with horns.
BUT there's the pre kidding worries, the post kidding worries, the are they suckling nd has mom cleared out properly THEN you have to go burning holes in the little heads. Poor babies. One of my little girls runs away every time she see's me now nd hides behind Mom....nd I didn't debud her..... :gloomy:

Actually that's not my experience at all - mine come back from the vets and go back in with mum for a few hours again - the dam usually makes a really good job of cleaning up any leftover dried blood etc, and they are back to chasing around as soon as they have a belly full of milk.

If the vet knows what they are doing there should be no problems.
Title: Re: Argh. How I hate debudding!!! :(((
Post by: Daisys Mum on May 04, 2014, 08:55:39 pm
I will be disbudding mine and as they are pygmys getting the vet to take care of any male bits that need removing.
Title: Re: Argh. How I hate debudding!!! :(((
Post by: ScotsGirl on May 04, 2014, 10:11:43 pm
Well I will definitely not be disbudding again. Cost about £25/head and all bar one have grown back worse than if left. Been stuck in stock net and even more difficult to remove than if they had normal horns. I was impressed with vets handling of them and they were back with mums within a couple of hours but results are poor.


The only one successful was likely not to have grown horns as her brothers have no sign of horns coming through and mum looks like she didn't either.  :rant:
Title: Re: Argh. How I hate debudding!!! :(((
Post by: Anke on May 05, 2014, 07:07:34 am
Well I will definitely not be disbudding again. Cost about £25/head and all bar one have grown back worse than if left. Been stuck in stock net and even more difficult to remove than if they had normal horns. I was impressed with vets handling of them and they were back with mums within a couple of hours but results are poor.


The only one successful was likely not to have grown horns as her brothers have no sign of horns coming through and mum looks like she didn't either.  :rant:

That suggests that the vet was inexperienced. I have very rarely any regrowth, and if I do it is loose bits that get knocked of when they have some disagreements....

My billy kid last year (coming to me disbudded from down south), had to go back to the vets for a second disbudding and (despite being intact, which normally means really strong growth of scurs) has not had anything growing back since.
Title: Re: Argh. How I hate debudding!!! :(((
Post by: tattycat on May 05, 2014, 11:03:28 am
Anke. You must be really lucky with your vet!!
Mine went to vet last year, they took 4 and 5 hours to come out of anesthetic, breathing was REALLY shallow, nd me nd mom quite freaked out!! Then got substantial horn growth...
Then friend went to same vet. Told about the time it took for mine to come out of anesthetic, took her one nearly 12 hrs to come round, mum nearly rejected it.....and yes, horn growth again..
Has anyone used the paste?
Title: Re: Argh. How I hate debudding!!! :(((
Post by: ScotsGirl on May 05, 2014, 11:25:06 am
Mine were back round in about 10 mins. Sedative given then antidote after done. She was confident this was her area of expertise and I changed vets as thought they would be better and cheaper. Now don't know what to do
Title: Re: Argh. How I hate debudding!!! :(((
Post by: LouiseG on May 05, 2014, 02:01:55 pm
My vet gases them down so very quick, no injections etc. and as soon as he turns the gas off they come straight back round with nothing left in their system. Never had any problems with the disbudding I have more problem getting them back off the nurses who need to cuddle them to make up for the nasty vet man  :)
Title: Re: Argh. How I hate debudding!!! :(((
Post by: Lesley Silvester on May 05, 2014, 04:00:13 pm
My vet is good. The kids are conscious by the time they come back through to the waiting room and leaping around as soon as they are out back in with mum. (once they've fed,[size=78%] [/size][/size]of course)[size=78%]
Title: Re: Argh. How I hate debudding!!! :(((
Post by: Anke on May 05, 2014, 04:52:17 pm
My vet gases them down so very quick, no injections etc. and as soon as he turns the gas off they come straight back round with nothing left in their system. Never had any problems with the disbudding I have more problem getting them back off the nurses who need to cuddle them to make up for the nasty vet man  :)

Yes doing them under gas is brilliant - quick and they do come round as soon as finished.
Title: Re: Argh. How I hate debudding!!! :(((
Post by: Sbom on May 05, 2014, 09:04:57 pm
Mine have a small jab, buds out, vaccination given and are coming round as soon as it's done, takes no more than five minutes and cost less than £35 for three  :)
We have a few goat dairy herds round here so vet is very experienced, will only have him do them from now on.
My mums vet however charged a fortune and they all had considerable re growth  >:(
Title: Re: Argh. How I hate debudding!!! :(((
Post by: Penninehillbilly on May 05, 2014, 11:13:11 pm
takes no more than five minutes and cost less than £35 for three  :)
My mums vet however charged a fortune and they all had considerable re growth  >:(

Gosh, mine were £35 each!
one is OK, but one was very slow to come round, in fact vet came out to our van where i had her in my arms and gave her another injection (can't think of the name - sort of gives them a bit of a boost?). All the way home I held her in my arms, I kept thinking she'd died, then she'd lift her head and give an awful bleat. She's never really got going, now seems to cough and choke when she suckles, and doesn't seem to take much at a time. all started from that disbudding.
 
So do other vets still use gas torch and (red?) hot metal disbudder? (wasn't allowed to see it done).
chap I knew who had had goats for many years used an electric unit, did a much better job, sadly not allowed to now  :( .
Title: Re: Argh. How I hate debudding!!! :(((
Post by: ballingall on May 05, 2014, 11:20:57 pm
Prices seem to vary quite a lot I have noticed.

We use an electric unit, prefer it as the temp is constant. Not heard that these can't be used? However I do think they are hard to get hold of now.

Beth
Title: Re: Argh. How I hate debudding!!! :(((
Post by: Sbom on May 06, 2014, 08:30:33 am
Mine used a gas disbudder and I stayed the whole time  :)
Title: Re: Argh. How I hate debudding!!! :(((
Post by: jinglejoys on May 06, 2014, 12:25:29 pm
Much better to disbud but the vets and them in the offices in the city who have only seen a goat in a petting zoo don't make it easy!
   Can anyone tell me why after the vets decided to line their pockets and become a monopoly that  disbudding went up overnight from £2.50 to £15/£30 ?
    I've had the injection type (three in each horn base (horrid) the gas,(Kept having to remove the mask and then keep going) and the knockout type.
  All require taking the kid away from its dam for ages putting it under stress and then the bloody things grow back (Had a couple of unicorns when I had Pygmies)
    In the old days an experienced goat keeper did it,the kids were back on mum in a few minutes and the horns didn't grow back.
   Mind you nowadays people take their goats to a farrier or vet to have their hoof trimmed! Soon it will become illegal for people to trim their own goats!
Title: Re: Argh. How I hate debudding!!! :(((
Post by: Penninehillbilly on May 06, 2014, 12:33:35 pm
   Can anyone tell me why after the vets decided to line their pockets and become a monopoly that  disbudding went up overnight from £2.50 to £15/£30 ?
   
I think you answer your own question there  >:(
Title: Re: Argh. How I hate debudding!!! :(((
Post by: mojocafa on May 06, 2014, 04:34:17 pm
If you hate disbudding then why do it ?
I have 15 adult pygmy goats, 19 kids all horned apart from the billie, and what a complete mess his have grown in to be,   :rant:
 


Title: Re: Argh. How I hate debudding!!! :(((
Post by: tattycat on May 06, 2014, 07:57:13 pm
Hiya Penninehillbilly.
How's she doing? You could give her some honey see if that helps. Poor girl.
Mojocafa. I debudd as it's safer for me nd the other girls! Posted before about 'bullying granny'. My experience is that they have horns nd they know how to use them!! Maybe with Pygmies it's not so bad but my girls are HUGE milkers. It's not so much they're aggressive, but accidents happen. My nanny with horns can be quite scary when she has the wind up her tail nd is wanting to play!! lol Nd my 9mth old Togg enjoys aerating the grass...never seen anything like it!
Title: Re: Argh. How I hate debudding!!! :(((
Post by: Penninehillbilly on May 08, 2014, 01:03:19 am
Hi tattycat
how should I give her honey? in warm water in bottle? mixed with milk? warm it and try spoon into the side of her mouth?
 
mojocafa, after the bruises I had on my legs from the boys last year, I said never again, but finance dictates,
 - they don't mean me harm, I just get in the way of their boisterous fisticuffs, esp when they see a bucket in my hand and want to be near me :-(. I'm calling these boys Devilish and Demon, hopefully they'll turn out to be little angels to prove me wrong  ;D
I also have boers, but their horns sweep back, not a problem,
Title: Re: Argh. How I hate debudding!!! :(((
Post by: Lesley Silvester on May 08, 2014, 10:15:10 pm
In the past I've given treacle dissolved in warm water and I give it in a clean dog bowl. Cloud doesn't seem to like it - she's a very fussy goat - so I'll give honey a go.
Title: Re: Argh. How I hate debudding!!! :(((
Post by: tattycat on May 17, 2014, 09:23:22 pm
Wow. Most of you seem to have fairly knowledgeable vets...not so lucky here, would be better if I had a cow.....
Title: Re: Argh. How I hate debudding!!! :(((
Post by: Penninehillbilly on May 18, 2014, 12:31:26 am
Hiya Penninehillbilly.
How's she doing? You could give her some honey see if that helps. Poor girl.
Hi
hopefully she's picking up, I've given her honey in milk, which she guzzles with relish, coughs and splutters have stopped, but she's quite a bit smaller than her sister, been meaning to take some pics. her head is strange, where her buds were are very close together up to her sisters, and they are stilll blueish where her sisters are healing over, also after all that they both have growths starting.
Now to top it all her mum has a cut on one teat, (not deep, more deepish scratch), but she's not letting the kids feed, milked her out and bottle fed the kids tonight, I put honey in and after refusing at first, baby must have tasted the honey and couldn't get enough, wouldn't let go of the bottle :-). I must remember that for if I have a kid who won't take the bottle.
Title: Re: Argh. How I hate debudding!!! :(((
Post by: tattycat on May 18, 2014, 05:57:17 pm
Penninehillbilly, that's such good news!! As for giving it when it's unwanted, I'll put some on my fingers nd shove them in their mouths!! Generally they realize it's good for them, then watch out for the sweet toothed one's!!
Re any bleeding after debudding or any other wound I use powdered rosemary. It forms a 'scab', it's a painkiller also antiseptic. It's my wonder herb.
I had a girl that got mastitis after a cut on her udder and used warm pulped comfrey for that. A couple of months later she took Champion at one of the local shows..
Fingers crossed little one will catch up. :fc:
Title: Re: Argh. How I hate debudding!!! :(((
Post by: Lesley Silvester on May 19, 2014, 12:16:31 am
I shouldn't have read this. My babies are being disbudded  on Tuesday. Cassi already has the start of horns so I hope it goes alright.
Title: Re: Argh. How I hate debudding!!! :(((
Post by: Daisys Mum on May 19, 2014, 06:39:05 am
Little Mac is going in on Wednesday for disbudding and castrating, I'm going to take Mum along too in the trailer so that they will be separated for the least time possible. I will also be asking them not to cuddle him as last one I had done absolutely stank of perfume and Mum was not impressed, it took a while before she would accept that he was her baby.
Title: Re: Argh. How I hate debudding!!! :(((
Post by: Lesley Silvester on May 19, 2014, 04:47:59 pm
I am not taking mum so hope she isn't too upset. It has worked out that way in the past.
Title: Re: Argh. How I hate debudding!!! :(((
Post by: tattycat on May 19, 2014, 10:02:37 pm
Im sure it will go OK for both of youz... :wave:
Title: Re: Argh. How I hate debudding!!! :(((
Post by: Penninehillbilly on May 20, 2014, 12:33:58 am
I shouldn't have read this. My babies are being disbudded  on Tuesday. Cassi already has the start of horns so I hope it goes alright.
Sorry for the negatives MGM, I'm sure there are hundreds disbudded every year quite safely, and teeny one is much happier now.
Title: Re: Argh. How I hate debudding!!! :(((
Post by: Lesley Silvester on May 20, 2014, 04:20:49 pm
All went well. I did have one nasty moment though. The vet took one of them and said he would take the other afterwards. When he came back out to the car, he didn't have her and my first thought was that something had gone wrong but it was fine. She was just coming round in the cage inside. They both look like they have milk bottle tops on their heads - do you remember silver top milk? - but it is just the spray which they have managed to spread all over their bodies so now they look like fairies.  :roflanim:
Title: Re: Argh. How I hate debudding!!! :(((
Post by: Daisys Mum on May 20, 2014, 05:28:08 pm
All went well. I did have one nasty moment though. The vet took one of them and said he would take the other afterwards. When he came back out to the car, he didn't have her and my first thought was that something had gone wrong but it was fine. She was just coming round in the cage inside. They both look like they have milk bottle tops on their heads - do you remember silver top milk? - but it is just the spray which they have managed to spread all over their bodies so now they look like fairies.  :roflanim:
Pleased it all went well for you, how long were they in for? I seem to remember last time they were gone for ages which is why I thought that I would take mum along in the trailer with baby as we have a 50 minute round trip.
Title: Re: Argh. How I hate debudding!!! :(((
Post by: Lesley Silvester on May 20, 2014, 10:26:06 pm
Probably not much more than five - ten minutes each even though Cassi had already started growing a horn.
Title: Re: Argh. How I hate debudding!!! :(((
Post by: Daisys Mum on May 21, 2014, 08:47:31 am
It's D day and I feel sick, why am I doing this I ask myself and I suppose it's because I have 2 disbudded females and small grandchildren so worry about a boisterous boy with horns.
Title: Re: Argh. How I hate debudding!!! :(((
Post by: Daisys Mum on May 21, 2014, 11:01:26 am
Well we are back...it didn't help taking mum along in the trailer as she still says that he is nothing to do with her. I've penned them in together and the little fellow has the heat lamp on , they have ringed him and he looks very uncomfortable, shaking and baaing away!
Title: Re: Argh. How I hate debudding!!! :(((
Post by: goosepimple on May 21, 2014, 12:38:23 pm
stick a tea cosy on them next time Anne, it'll be cheaper  :D
Title: Re: Argh. How I hate debudding!!! :(((
Post by: CarolineR on June 09, 2014, 12:45:02 pm
Hi, If anyone has had bother with regrowth after disbudding (and unfortunately it can occasionally happen, even with the most up-to-date veterinary advice and equipment- goats are trickier than other animals) it is worth seeing if your vet is aware that the Goat Veterinary Society have produced some special materials for vets on the latest knowledge regarding disbudding in goats.
 
It's not well publicised so it's not uncommon for most vets to be unaware that this resource is available from the Goat Vet Society - so many species to treat, so little time! But hope this helps. Sometimes it is a case of needing to change the diameter of the disbudding iron for different types of goats, etc. The Goat Vet Society are a brilliant resource for vets as there is not a whole lot of other sources of information out there - I highly recommend them (I'm a member and found it really worthwhile)
Title: Re: Argh. How I hate debudding!!! :(((
Post by: Daisys Mum on June 09, 2014, 02:12:47 pm
Noticed yesterday that one of my disbudded goats had knocked off the scur that she had and whilst it bled a little it's fine today.
Title: Re: Argh. How I hate debudding!!! :(((
Post by: Sbom on June 09, 2014, 02:55:26 pm
My two that were born Saturday are off to be done tomorrow  :fc: he does as good a job as last year