The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Pets & Working Animals => Dogs => Topic started by: AndynJ on April 22, 2014, 08:04:42 pm
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So if your dogs not too well, is it off to the vets or give it a dose of antibiotics out of the sheep cupboard ??
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I don't risk it unless I know for sure it's okay for dogs.
What's the problem?
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no problem, just asking as 2 of our friends have taken their dogs to the vets one is an ancient collie vets kept it over easter its on anti's the other is a broken leg.
So just asking if you had a cow or horse with a broken leg it would get shot, just wondered what people on here do, our dog is another animal and gets treated as such.
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My dogs are my best friends, and get treated as such.
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The legislation for how you treat dogs to how you treat livestock is different. Dosage and compatibility of medications for each animal species is different. What is fine in high doses for one could be lethal for another.
Shooting a dog is illegal under the animal welfare act, shooting livestock is not.
And this
My dogs are my best friends, and get treated as such.
Oops, didn't answer the question: VETS every time
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Vets
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Technically shooting a dog is only illegal if its not been put on your FAC ticket.
I routinely treat my dogs my self for small to medium issues - mostly cosmetic stuff, cuts, bangs etc.
Mainly its skin staples, stitches etc. Give them a bit of metacam if needed. Occaisionally antibiotics if its a clear case of minor infection.
For anything serious or anything internal, I mostly take them to the vets.
I only treat them myself due to experience and the fact that for the most part its happened before, and I know i'll be able to do quicker what the vets will end up doing anyway.
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Technically shooting a dog is only illegal if its not been put on your FAC ticket.
This will explain why I had it in my head that Dickie the farmer across the way would have to shoot my pooch not me.
I have a friend whom works for Defra he has a cupboard full of stuff and would point me in the right direction, your posts have answered my thoughts "It's about confidence and the unknown" which my friend deals with for me.
Thanks for the replies
Dogs = best friends = flippin heck "not sure if I admire you or am scared for you"
TAS community will be your friends :bouquet: :love: :hug:
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Routinely treat my dogs for small things. With Fred, I'm have remortgaged my house for more quality time with him >:(... I will probably be the same with Misty....
Definitely they aren't "just" animals. They aren't food producers, their role is companionship. Unless you are talking about entirely working animals, sheep dogs or guard dogs, I don't see why you would lump them in with the livestock. You aren't getting a return, why would you have them at all?
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A couple of years ago we were faced with the possibility of an £8000 veterinary procedure for our beloved springer. In the event it was a misdiagnosis from a slightly over zealous young vet thank god but not before several agonising weeks trying to establish where you draw the line in terms of expenditure. I think we learnt two things. Everything has a price no mattrt how loved and also get bloody pet insurance. I remember vaguely reading how animals on endangered lists all have a value, no matter how unsavoury all of us will place a value on a life. How much would you pay to ensure the survival of a pet or the black rhino? £100, £1000, ? 100000 ? We'll all stop somewhere.
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One of the problems with vets and dogs is that they assume these days that we all have insurance, and costs of treatments have escalated astronomically as a result.
When you don't have insurance therefore, estimates can get scary pretty quickly. :o
And you can't get insurance for working collies :( so that can mean some very hard decisions having to be made.
Thankfully our vets are realistic about treating farm collies - not only is there a limit on what a farmer can pay to treat a faithful colleague (better than best friend, often!) but the nature of the working collie being what it is, most of them would rather be dead than on the farm unable to work, watching other dogs go off to do the gather :'( So spending thousands on a bionic elbow when the dog can't work again is on the edge of cruelty. (Making that decision was a long hard night I hope never to have to live through again.) Skip says he's happier with the cheaper, rough-and-ready op that left him a bit limpy but still safe to work ;) What was truly scary was that I was only offered the cheaper, rough-and-ready op when I said I'd decided it wasn't in the dog's best interests to do the bionic one. >:( Again, a young and over-enthusiastic vet. I make sure I get one of the farm vets and/or a more experienced one for the collies now ;)
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Common sense would prevail here. I am not a qualified vet or doctor, nor even a nurse, so unless i was 100% sure what ailed any of my dogs I would contact my vet - for advice in the first instance and a visit if required. He knows I have vast experience in dogs so is likely to guide me well. He NEVER asks if the dog has insurance, although three of the four have.
I had to pay £2000 fro a TPLO on my oldest bitch three years ago and fortunately was able to afford to do so from savings, but would have taken out a loan if I hadn't. She is not almost 13 and I can't insure her without a mortgage :innocent:, but took the decision to insure the 10 and 8 year olds when the pup came along. My 8 year old appeared to have a back problem a couple of weeks ago - I gave him metacam, but asked Ian to check him over just in case it was a spinal problem as he plays with Missy a lot. That cost me £8
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We have a collie, our 2nd one, its a guard dog, fox badger deterrent, chicken supervisor, we were meant to be buying a place with more land so we were having sheep, though that's not worked out, he is on the whistle but only just so over the next few weeks we will give him more training around a herd of cows with another collie in tow.
3 local farmers have asked if we will sell him, we never tether him now.
He has exceptional breeding he came from the Chairman of the Welsh sheepdog society, pups were ordered 2 litters in advance and his sister went to Chez.
Last collie went to the vets when she broke her hip, first & last visit
This one went in for the snip, all jabs done by friend & I
Stiches in the foot pad done by the wife (that was interesting without sedation)
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I don't take the dog or cat in for anything I am confident I can treat, anything that I'm unsure of is straight in. I wouldn't be paying thousands to have my dog treated. He's a lovely dog, but not worth that much. Same as I wouldn't spend £2000 on a new pair of curtains or £40k on a new car. For me it is immoral when there are people in the world who are starving and dying for the sake of a paracetamol tablet to bring a fever down. This is only my opinion applied to myself. I'm happy for others to spend their money on whatever they want to.
I don't consider a pets welfare to be of any greater importance than livestock. They are animals in my care.
When there have been test results waited for, or reoccurring problems, my husband and I have discussed where the level is, and when that figure is reached the pet is put to sleep (with many tears).
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We've had pets PTS because at point of diagnosis of something that will cost an arm & a leg, we've weighed up the welfare of our children against keeping an asthmatic cat going.
I do believe in the freedoms though and wouldn't treat an animal without adequate pain relief or if I wasnt' confident that I knew what I was doing!
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We've had pets PTS because at point of diagnosis of something that will cost an arm & a leg, we've weighed up the welfare of our children against keeping an asthmatic cat going.
I do believe in the freedoms though and wouldn't treat an animal without adequate pain relief or if I wasnt' confident that I knew what I was doing!
What she said!
I have had my issues with vets in the past and even successfully got treatment fees back off one due to negligence on their part, I know that anything superficial like cleaning cuts, bandaging, cutting nails etc can be done by me or my oh, but I do rely on her for anything else though, she teaches vet nursing, so I'm lucky there, but I don't think I could condone or do anything to any animal if it needed pain relief and I was in a position to provide it I.e. Taking it to the vets
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Our dogs are family pets and are treated as family, I couldn't put a value on that! Minor stuff we deal with obviously but anything more serious vets without a second thought.
Everyone has different relationships with their animals be it livestock, working animals & pets.
As owners our animals should always be cared for to the best of our ability, provided with love & compassion, free from suffering etc that's the least we owe them.
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I personally have paid for the new surgery our vet practice is opening. I even offered to cut the ribbon ;D
Don't grudge them a penny but if faced with the prospect of a huge bill, we'd have to examine options.
My ponies aren't insured - I've told the vet if they get grass sickness or a bad colic to not even suggest taking them to the vet college.
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Our dogs and cats go straight to the vet when ill. The ponies only see the vet if its something I can't deal with.
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In fairness Dogs rarely go to the vets, I treat them as I would myself because they can be off colour like we can. Stitches, stomach upsets, fevers tend to get dealt with here because I feel confident to do that. I was going to take Misty to the vet about a year because I thought she'd dislocated her hip (she fell jumping over a wall), she had because she wriggled and I heard it pop back in! a week of being inside and she's been perfect ever since.
I also wouldn't necessarily treat all dogs the same, I had Fred for 17 years and he was deep in my heart, I have had Luca for 5 months. What I would be prepared to do would be different.
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Golly! Just saw this - definitely seek advice. Livestock and dogs/cats metabolise drugs very differently as thus vets use very different drugs to treat wee smallies compared to our livestock friends. Whilst there is some overlap it is irresponsible to attempt to self treat dogs with drugs that are not prescribed for them. Many a dog and cat have been made very poorly indeed/poisoned/overdosed from such actions. :(
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strange how in theory its all so clear. earlier this morning our little cat Fish appeared at the back door, clearly the worse for wear, bleeding from her nose and eye and with a very swollen mouth. not a second thought- wife stuck her in a box and straight to the vet. just rung me to say broken top and bottom jaw plus 3 broken teeth. being admitted straight away for wiring. vet thinks its from a fall. haven't got a clue what it will cost- don't care
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:fc: for Fish :hugcat:
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strange how in theory its all so clear. earlier this morning our little cat Fish appeared at the back door, clearly the worse for wear, bleeding from her nose and eye and with a very swollen mouth. not a second thought- wife stuck her in a box and straight to the vet. just rung me to say broken top and bottom jaw plus 3 broken teeth. being admitted straight away for wiring. vet thinks its from a fall. haven't got a clue what it will cost- don't care
cats don't fall and break things unless they have used up all their lives They have inbuilt turn over mechanism which means they land right side up - she would have had a broken sternum if she had fallen from a height. . She has been kicked in the face by someone or something - many cattle about? Hope she gets well soon :fc: :love: - I would do the same, raid the savings, use the plastic, take out a loan, extend a mortgage.
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she was chased off the top of the house roof by next doors cat. a neighbour saw it happen but presumed she was ok. poor old fish is so bottom of the cat league round here. out of surgery ok and wifes just gone to bring her home. £400 and counting- will have to go back for another general in a few weeks to have wire taken out.
we're laying a new patio and for weeks the OH has been banging on about expensive paving despite my protestations. Fancy paving or Fish's face ? we'll be having the cheap stuff
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Hope she makes a good recovery. :fc: Poor love. :hug:
A neighbours cat came home last year with similar sounding facial injuries. Made a complete recovery.
Neighbour assumed a car had hit puss but was told as Doganjo says that likely cause was either a human kick :o or cat had been in the cattle sheds. I would have thought that a cat would have made sure it was out of harms way in a cattle shed but maybe not. :-\
Cross posted with you DL. Poor Fish .... that was unlucky.
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Following on from a thread where the RSPCA have been mentioned, it isn't unusual for them to take action where an animal (in their opinion!) hasn't received what they deem to be 'appropriate' treatment.
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[/quote]cats don't fall and break things unless they have used up all their lives They have inbuilt turn over mechanism which means they land right side up - she would have had a broken sternum if she had fallen from a height. . She has been kicked in the face by someone or something - many cattle about? Hope she gets well soon :fc: :love: - I would do the same, raid the savings, use the plastic, take out a loan, extend a mortgage.
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I wish this was the case, unfortunately on some occasions the cat doesn't quite land perfectly and a nose dive or skull gets the impact. On occasion the two forelegs take the impact and don't quite spring correctly resulting in damagedmor broken limbs :-\
Hope fish makes a good recovery :bouquet:
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cats don't fall and break things unless they have used up all their lives They have inbuilt turn over mechanism which means they land right side up - she would have had a broken sternum if she had fallen from a height. . She has been kicked in the face by someone or something - many cattle about? Hope she gets well soon :fc: :love: - I would do the same, raid the savings, use the plastic, take out a loan, extend a mortgage.
There was a review paper published in the US some many years ago on cat falls from high-rise buildings.
From the 1st and second floor falls generally resulted in no injury. Next highest lead to 5-point landings with fractures on the lower jaw. Higher than that it was usually pelvic injuries and from about the fifth floor and above : no statistics ::)
To get fractures of the maxilla as well as the mandible I'd expect a severe front end blow.. so road traffic or horse kicks would be high on the expectation list. 40yrs in practice and I don't think i ever saw a cat with a fractured maxilla. mandibles all the time. Different in dogs.
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official medical update- I reckon that pgkevet 9 and others) knows his stuff. fractured mandible only despite initial suggestion it was both. lost 3 teeth including a canine. has gone from looking like the prettiest cat to looking like the bad lion in The Lion King, came home last night and immediately hungry. on soft meat and rice. other than snorting the occasional blood due to damage in her nose is astonishingly as normal tried to leap onto neighbours shed from the top of the roof. bit too far and face arrived first. because she ran off he assumed she was ok.
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Following on from a thread where the RSPCA have been mentioned, it isn't unusual for them to take action where an animal (in their opinion!) hasn't received what they deem to be 'appropriate' treatment.
Just a wee story . . . . a friends dog was recently seized by the RSPCA, as they accused him of using it for foxing. Now it was a pregnant bitch. . . . and three days later it was pronounced dead after being ripped apart by other dogs whilst in RSPCA care.
In another case the RSPCA seized a Golden Eagle from falconer Roy Lupton, who was in the process of nursing it back to health, and almost ready for release. Despite receiving a licence from defra to have the wild eagle in captivity until healed and released, his house was raided by the police and RSPCA and the eagle taken into RSPCA custody.
The eagle was dead within the month, from a combination or neglect and poisoning.
Appropriate treatment . . . . don't make me laugh. They are idiots.
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Glad Fish is going to be ok.
Treatment would have been my personal option too, without any thought :cat:
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Glad Fish is going to be ok.
Treatment would have been my personal option too, without any thought :cat:
ditto and ditto
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Either treat it if you can or give it a swift death. Anything else is cruel.
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Glad to hear Fish is ok, well worth the money.
I treat all my dogs myself, but worked in a vets for many years and have had a lot of experience, btw don't shoot my cattle with broken legs unless its in a place where it can't be repaired, stuckie on all the way. I will go to the vets when it is something I can't handle, and I will pay, last week my NI went to the vets with a twisted gut, had rung the vets and told them what it was and they prepped for surgery immediately, had a phone call to say operation would be £800-£1000 would I like her put to sleep, my answer was no continue, she is now home with me and healing gradually. I can understand the mentality of some people not wanting to pay that sort of money to keep an animal alive however its a personal choice and also depends on how you look at the animals in your life. I know a lot of farmers that would put the dog/cat to sleep without a second thought, then others that would spend a fortune.
I wouldn't use cattle or sheep medicine on my dogs, although there are some that are the same as would be used to treat them, but would ring the vets and get what I need for them, they will give me what I ask for unless it is a medicine that needs to be administered by a vet like Mycotel for cattle, due to farmers injecting themselves and having heart attacks!
It's all about how confident you are in treating you animals yourself and recognising the signs of what is wrong. If ever in doubt go to the vets that's what they trained all those years for.