The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Goats => Topic started by: mariegold on April 08, 2014, 08:31:09 pm
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Hi goaty sages,
Had a visit from the vet today to dehorn billy the kid. The vet suggested I regularly test the goats for TB especially since we drink the milk raw. I do live in Gloucestershire were TB is a major issue but I cant help but feel that its just a way for the vets to make some easy money!
Does anyone else test their goats? Also am I completely bonkers for drinking the milk raw? Thanks all in advance ;D
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I drink my goats' milk raw. I've never TB tested. I don't know if it's an issue in Cumbria or not?
I'm old enough to have had the BCG (tuberculosis) vaccination at school, so I presume I'm immune anyway?
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Never tested for TB and nobody has ever suggested that we do test. we have been drinking our raw milk for more years than I care to remember ::) Our Vet knows we drink it aswell
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TB testing for goats is not mandatory as far as I know, even in TB areas. Although there has been one recent outbreak in a herd of Golden Guernseys (and they had been sold to different parts of the UK before it became clear that they were bTB positive), but nothing else or since. Most vets will actually tell you that goats do not get bTB.
Unless your goats are looking unthrifty, cough etc I wouldn't test. You may have to if you sell your milk raw though.
My whole reason for having my goats is to drink raw milk/make cheese/cream etc, so I wouldn't dream of pasteurising.
I think given that you live in an area where TB has been high on the agenda your vet just wants to be definitely sure that s/he is not missing anything. S/he probably has to go out and test cattle regularly - it must be a heartbreaking task...
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Hiya mariegold. How did the d3horning go? I had one both d poo ne by vet last year nd had a nightmare..one of them didn't come round from the anaesthetic for 5 hours.....nd a friends didn't come round until the next morning!! Needless to say all concerned very concerned. ...
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OMG. Sum funny spelling in last post!! Smart phone not so smart.....
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We've always drunk milk raw as well, you're definitely not mad! Regarding the TB testing, I'm not sure. I think I might be tempted to test them if I lived in a TB area, but it would only be for my peace of mind. Maybe I'm just a bit paranoid about that!
Beth
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http://ahvla.defra.gov.uk/External_OV_Instructions/TB_Goat_Instructions/index.htm (http://ahvla.defra.gov.uk/External_OV_Instructions/TB_Goat_Instructions/index.htm)
If there is a lot of cattle tb in the area there is a risk of spill over into goats. How high the risk is would depend on the local herds, badger movements etc. If you slaughter goats regularly through an abbatoir overt tb would be detected in the carcases but by then you could have been drinking infected milk for a considerable time. I think I would be quite cautious in Gloustershire.
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I don't have goats but I don't pasteurise my Jersey milk.
jaykay, sokel, Anke & ballingall - we are all lucky enough to live in TB free / low risk areas (although two parishes neighbouring mine are now not TB4 :(), so the risk to us of drinking raw milk is small. (And in my case, the organic dairy farm next door sells raw milk, so is tested every 12 months - so I figure I'd get an early warning ;))
And yes, jaykay, I had BCG jab too, though at Uni, so have assumed that would cover me anyway.
But I have to say, if I were in an area where bTB is rife, I would probably want the piece of mind of a test on the same frequency as my neighbouring farms.
Defra maintain and publish stats on TB testing. In 2013, 6 goats were tested and TB was found in 3 of them. (For sheep it was 35 tested, 3 positive. Alpacas 52 tested, 25 positive; pigs 15 of 64, dogs 1 of 9, cats 16 of 60, deer 11 of 63 (of which 8 positives in 30 wild deer tested.)) Generally species other than cattle only get tested if there is reason for suspicion - so it could be far more widespread than anyone really knows.
The website for looking up the stats is here (https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/bovine-tb).
Defra's current information states
Both sheep and goats are susceptible to TB. There is a risk of transmission to humans if unpasteurised milk or dairy products made from unpasteurised milk from TB infected nannies are consumed. There is no active surveillance for TB in sheep or goats; cases will tend to be identified at post slaughter inspection.
Sheep and goats will be TB tested, at Defra’s expense, if located on premises where TB has been confirmed in cattle (subject to findings of a veterinary risk assessment), or if M. bovis infection has been confirmed in the goat herd itself. Where an owner wishes to tuberculin test their sheep and/or goats in the absence of confirmed M. bovis infection on the premises or in the immediate vicinity, testing may be undertaken privately by the owner’s veterinary surgeon at the owner’s expense. Such testing must, however, be agreed and approved by AHVLA.
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So if they tested positive would it mean compulsory culling like in cattle? And what about ovement restrictions and then a regular testing period? Just curious...
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So if they tested positive would it mean compulsory culling like in cattle? And what about ovement restrictions and then a regular testing period? Just curious...
Yes I think if positive test you are under the same rules as for cattle...
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Thanks for all the useful thoughts. I've had my BCG but I know that TB is horrible for the animal so perhaps I will test for their sakes and for the sake of friends / friend's children.
There are no cows within about a mile of where the goats are kept but I share the yard with lots of horsey people who drive over from other parts of the town, I guess they might come into contact with TB from their neighbours. Aaaa so much to consider, think I should move up North or maybe Orkney..........
Our disbudding went well, no problems at all but I really am in two minds about how necessary it is. Trouble is I'm not keeping little billy, hope someone else would like him to keep their own goats company and it seems that people don't really like horns that much!
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Did little billy get ringed at the same time? Just saying, as entire male kids can be fertile from as little at 2 to 3 months - when they are effectively stull suckling their dam :o (if they are) or become a nuisance anyway and have to be kept away from females.
I would find out the cost for TB testing first and maybe there are other goatkeepers near you who can advise you on the pro's and con's? I sold a GG last autumn to someone in Gloucestershire..., so there are goatkeepers about.
Where have your goats come from? More important to check what the TB status is at their previous holding - and if you don't have cattle (or Alpacas/Llamas) on your holding I really would think seriously before testing. You don't seem to be a really high risk (IMO)
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"If you slaughter goats regularly through an abbatoir overt tb would be detected in the carcases"
How is it seen Farmvet? I have meat goats so not overly worried, interested about the signs post death.
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I rubber banded poor billy, he was a bit of a wimp about it but soon forgave me (the vet checked my handiwork and said it was all good). I think I'll try contacting the local goats society to see what their thoughts are. Just been to check on enfys our pregnant toggenburg and she has some mucus discharge, fingers crossed!
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Where have your goats come from? More important to check what the TB status is at their previous holding - and if you don't have cattle (or Alpacas/Llamas) on your holding I really would think seriously before testing. You don't seem to be a really high risk (IMO)
bTB will be endemic in the badgers in that area, Anke, so it's not the same equation as it would be for us further north.
Out of interest, Anke - what do you have against mariegold testing? If it would come up clear, what's the harm?
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If TB were a problem in the UK goat population - DEFRA would have us testing compulsorily until the cows (goats) come home!
The reason I would tread very carefully with this is
a) freshly kidded goats really don't need any stress and unless the vet is any good at injecting/taking blood/causing pain in any way it can cause massive stress to them - if you ever had to inject a goat as opposed to a sheep...
b) Goats do not normally stay outside during the night, are indoors on wet days and for most of the winter, and their sheds are normally properly enclosed (unlike most cattle courts). So I don't think there is much of a risk of cross-infection.
c) Actually the fact that there only ever was ONE proper outbreak of bovine TB in goats is a case in point - there are large numbers of goatkeepers and a few goat dairy farms in the South-West if the risk was here DEFRA would test. No outbreaks - so no problem. It could create a bit of a hype amongst the general public if we started to test our goats all of a sudden. (And please don't give DEFRA ideas... I already pay well over 200quid each year for my CAE tests - and I KNOW they are negative before they get done!)
d) There is a significant proportion of cattle that react positive to the test, get slaughtered only to be found not to be infected after all.... except than it is a bit late isn't it?
Actually I think one of the main reasons that TB has not been researched and overcome in cattle is the fact that the milk is safe once it's pasteurised. If that were not the case the government would have had to spend much more and solve the issue... this way, it's only cows that get killed and it's cheaper to re-imburse the farmer the meat value... sorry a bit cynical there :-\
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I typed up a long reply yesterday evening then pressed the wrong button and lost it and was too tired to retype, so I'll try again.
I recently had my goats tb tested. All clear thank God.
Because
the neighbouring farms have all either had or have tb in cattle in the last year. My immediate neighbour has had two positive tests, due again next week I think. His cattle were in the adjoining field to the goats with just a stock fence between them. The only boundary without a hedge and double fence. The same badgers come in mine and his fields.
I discussed it with the vet and she agreed if Wales is trying to eradicate bTB they should be tested in such a high risk area. She persuaded AH that the ministry should pay as a contiguous test. After much confusion by different AH offices asking about my cattle and llamas The vet came and did the test.
She was brilliant and caused no stress to the goats who by then were 4 months pregnant. Most you couldn't tell anything had been done apart from the shaved patch each side of their necks. Three had very tiny marks but nothing significant.
All the same regulations would apply as for cattle.
There is compensation in Wales but I'm not sure about England.
Hope that helps
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This has got me panicking big time! I'm not far from Gloucestershire (Vale of Evesham) and when we first moved here I heard from a neighbour that a neighbouring farmer had lost his herd of cattle due to them being TB pos.
This was about 8 years ago. There are a handful of dexters a couple of fields away, nothing else nearer.
Never seen a badger live on the field or dead on the road all that near by.
If I have mine tested and they are positive, they have to be culled don't they? :-\
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If I have mine tested and they are positive, they have to be culled don't they? :-\
Yes - but other than the isolated outbreak in GG's in 2008 (I think) there has been not one. So really no reason to panic. I think goats are similar to sheep - isolated animals do get infected, not sure it's known why and how (as in badger or cow or deer), after all, there is zillions of sheep in Wales and TB in cattle is rife.... and no cross infection. So statistically goats and bTB is a non-starter.
Unless the goats have DIRECT and prolonged contact with infected cattle I would have thought the risk is really minimal.
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:bouquet: thank you for the reassurance Anke, have been stressing about this all afternoon :relief:
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Unless the goats have DIRECT and prolonged contact with infected cattle or badgers, alpaca or deer I would have thought the risk is really minimal.
With that addition, I agree.
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I wouldn't have had mine tested if my neighbours cattle had been clear. They've only been clear 6 months from the last bout and all the nearby farms - 4 within a mile radius - have been down in the last year.
There's evidence of badgers in the fields and the sett is just up the hill.