The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: jaykay on April 03, 2014, 01:42:52 pm
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So talking to LadyGrey about the tups she's used on her Shetlands, the Charollais crosses had nice fleeces and grew well.
But if I'm really honest, I don't like Charollais really :-\ or Texels or Beltex's if I'm honest. That 'pink pig' look.
Apparently the Ryeland crosses weren't good, which had been my first thought. I could do with lambs that finish earlier than my Shetland tup lambs. But then what do you do with the gimmers from a cross?
Anyone else used other tups on their Shetlands, to good effect? Hampshire Downs? Suffolks? Anything else??
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Can you not sell the gimmers from the cross fat as well as the rams?
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Where I bought a group of my shetlands from, they cross with a poll dorset ram
http://www.whaddongrove.co.uk/livestock-sales.php (http://www.whaddongrove.co.uk/livestock-sales.php)
Also not all charollais look like pink pigs :pig: :pig: :pig:
The ram I used looked a little like this
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jyxO_Yi2wso/T93cgpYkSRI/AAAAAAAAADc/mwCKIY5CZn8/s320/Builth+Main+Sale+2010+082+QU0067.JPG (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jyxO_Yi2wso/T93cgpYkSRI/AAAAAAAAADc/mwCKIY5CZn8/s320/Builth+Main+Sale+2010+082+QU0067.JPG)
and the lambs and adult sheep from the cross dont look piggie at all, very pretty :sheep: and both gimmers and ram lambs can be sold as fat
Also ryelands may work for other people, but they just didnt work for me
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I'd have to sell them as fat I think. I'm used to pedigree breeds, so selling the gimmers as breeding stock, just need to re-think a bit.
Ok, that Charollais tup is nice, he'd be ok :thumbsup: Yes, your sheep from the cross were pretty.
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I've seen a cross from a suffolk ram before. They looked ok and seemed to grow quickly enough.
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I had mine crossed with a GFD ram. Beautiful heavy fleeced, fastish growing lambs that taste great. Very hardy and sturdy too. Not really planned, just that I had my Shetland ewes running with my gfd flock. was worried about the lambs being too big for the shetlands but they had no problems at all.
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Southdown works well on almost anything. Use ours on Badger Face every other year to give a good "Farmer's Cross" that sells well as a store lamb at market. Vigorous lambs, no birth problems, well covered and very good conformation. Lambs look like a Southdown (yes, yes, "Ah, Teddy Bear!") but with slightly mottled white faces.
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My flock is Shetland x Gotland which gives lovely fleeces.
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Romney Ram all the way!! I use my romney on all sorts, wee little hill ewes, suffolk x, coradales, and scottish blackface. Never had any problem lambing, fantastic growing lambs on just grass, wonderful fleece. Would never use anything but a romney now. x
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I certainly like the coloured Romney tups. But I've never seen one around here.
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I've got a charolias ram from a hill farmer he's got a good wool covering been bred into them for the hill farms :)
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I think I'd find a GFD tup a bit much to handle - I like them very much indeed but they're pretty big. I'm on my own and don't have good handling facilities.
A Southdown sounds like a possibility.
I'm interested in those Romneys but presumably they come from 'down south' so I don't know how I'd get one up here in the wild north.
What are any of these like size and temperament-wise? I know Shetlands, Rough Fells, Swaledales and Ryelands, for comparison.
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GFD is pretty much the most docile breed I have owned, the tups are big but very, very placid, great breed for kids but sadly also useless. They don't finish quickly or flesh well and feet are poor - I have a hairy Charmoise I can post to you!
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Re Romney Tup. I bought my boy from a breeder in devon, along with 2 unrelated shearling ewes. Medium size sheep! Ram is really docile, went nasty last week after a break in and attempted theft of him and his mates, but after a few days back with me he has been fine. I can move him and his castrated companion around from paddock to paddock with a scoop of nuts and they just follow me. I always carry a stick with me incase he gets too close but never had a problem with him. Big pussy cat my shearer says!! The romney ewes are fab mums, never needed assistance and gorgeous healthy twins each time. Infact my romney ram has only produced 3 singles in 3 years covering on 13, 12 and 10 ewes. all the rest have been twins, no triplets and no misses. All offspring from a mixed bunch have lovely fleeces, easy to lamb, and i start to slaughter the larger lambs at 6 months, no creep feed, only grass. Oh and he is white, but has the coloured gene in him. I have 2 black little hill type ewes and they always have black twins.
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Other crossing breeds you could consider...
Blue-faced Leicester :yum: :spin: :knit: :excited:
Teeswater or Wensleydale :yum: :spin: :knit: :excited:
If you use a nice fleece breed, which to me would include the above, Southdown, Charollais, Dutch Texel (I know, ugly ugly ugly), Norfolk Horn (not Suffolk but I think there is a Norfolk Horn flock somewhere up in the North; Ruth Dalton would know), Romney, then you may be able to sell the gimmer lambs to handspinning :spin: sheepkeepers :hugsheep: .... if you know any, that is :eyelashes: :innocent: :eyelashes:
Someone bought 3 BFL x Shetland ewe lambs at Lanark last year. Can't think who. :innocent: And two Shetland X ewe lambs, one part BFL and one part Castlemilk Moorit at Carlisle the year before :innocent:
Oh, and our next door farm has a Romney tup. Not coloured though.
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I was going to say a wensleydale, as its one of those breeds that were mainly for producing rams to put to hardier ewes.
mind you a wensleyX has wild hair day - everyday.
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Sally, would you be able to find out where your next door farm got their Romney from? I've emailed the Society, to ask if there are any northern breeders.
Interesting that the Charmoise has Romney in the mix too. Charmoise better than Texel (and Charollais?) I think as smaller heads.
Yes, I'd like to keep the fleeces fine if I can. BFL would be the easiest tup to get round here. But I'm interested in seeing if I can get a Romney I think. I love both Teeswaters and Wensleydales, but same issue as GFDs - just too big.
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Charmoise have very small heads and are teeny tiny at birth, they literally shoot out and hit the ground running, My pedigree charmoise lambs weigh around 10kgs now at 3 weeks old and were born between 3-4kgs each, so low birth weights but high growth rates :thumbsup:
I am looking forwards to the Charmoise cross shetland lambs I will be making next year :thumbsup:
I dont have a very good photo of my Charmoise ram (he currently has a purple and blue head) but this is a photo that shows what they look like
(http://bib.ge/sheep/big/4544.jpg)
Im sure you could get plenty of info/photos from Me (Tom) about charmoise on this forum
After having a stuck hampshire/charollais ram lamb from a ewe today that was wedged around its actual skull, I think my ewes can go to the charmoise next year instead
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Yep if anyone would like honest information on Charmoise pm Me and I will bore you witless! They are a great little sheep, easy lambing, muscular, the highest meat-bone ratio you will find, vigorous, do well on poor grasses and hard as nails (Lady Grey can confirm conditions with Me vary from hard to harder).
ps if interested have a look at the Charmoise Sheep Breeders Facebook page
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Sally, would you be able to find out where your next door farm got their Romney from? I've emailed the Society, to ask if there are any northern breeders.
Yes of course. Remind me if I don't get back to you - head like sieve these days ::)
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Took a few pics today.
Here are some of Dora. Dad is a Shetland (grandpa to yours, I think, jaykay), and Mum is 1/2 Charollais, 1/4 Beltex, 1/8 BFL, 1/8 Swaledale. Dora's half-brother and cousin Cap'n is the tup I used on my fleece sheep this year, and his fleece is lovely. :hugsheep: :spin: (Stupidly never took a pic of Cap'n as a grown lamb.)
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And some of the BFL x Shetlands:
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And, not what you will want to do but interesting I think, the Manx x Shetlands. I'm dying to get the fleeces off them and to see how they breed next year. Dulcie Grey, the grey katmoget, is an outstanding gimmer (even BH likes her!) and, as far as you can tell on the hoof, the most beautiful fleece. Harry Potter (different dad, Pricket didn't like Jack Frost and broke black Zebedee out of his stable ::)) has quite a nice fleece too, but not in the same league as Dulcie. Dulcie has beautiful even black horns, HP is polled.
Pricket is in lamb to Cap'n this year - goodness knows what she's cooking in there... :o
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Lovely sheep Sally :thumbsup: I really like the look of dora, she looks just like my one Charollais cross shetland!!
I have just had a lovely lamb born to a first timer shetland shearling, she gave birth un assisted to a single ewe lamb, such a fab lamb!! soooo solid and so so pretty!! she also has the short shetland tail :thumbsup:
The lamb is out of my Charollais cross hampshire down ram, looking forwards to seeing what he has produced on the rest of my shetlands and cant wait to see how this lamb grows!!
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b316/Duckberry/20140406_210754_zpse2fbfabe.jpg)
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b316/Duckberry/20140406_210821_zpscc3c0887.jpg)
All of my cross bred lambs this year have short tails :thumbsup:
apart from my Charollais/Hampshire down cross Texel/Mule....... but he is an elephant...
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That's a very cute lamb :love: And about four times the size of the little pure Shetland twins one of mine has just had, already!