The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: mark@farmhouse on March 21, 2014, 09:01:41 am
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Hi all I have just had a blackface ewe give birth to twins it is her 1st crop of lambs but she would not lick clean or showing any interest , I gave the lambs some colostrum but any ideas on getting mother interested . They are penned up and she is not butting lambs away just ignoring them ( frustration )
Any thoughts would be of great help
Cheers
Mark
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If you're sure she's letting them feed and isn't hurting them, I'd just keep her in for the time being. For some first timers, the whole birth process is a bit traumatic and it takes them a bit of time to get over it and realise that the lambs are theirs.
If she's not letting them feed, then you will have to force her to feed them, either by tying her up, holding her or turning her. Check her udder isn't sore first though and that she has milk.
BF have a reputation for being very good mothers - I worked on a farm that had draft BF for Mule production and they were incredible mums (we all had bruises to prove it). Whatever happens, I'd think twice about breeding from her again.
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When we have a cow calve we put a bit of salt on the calf, it seems to encourage the mother to lick it clean... Not sure if you can do this with sheep though might be worth ringing vet.
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As Rosemary says and in the meantime tube the lambs - either with colostrum milked out from her or if not possible with artificial stuff. Lambs otherwise loose the will to live fast! Also if still a bit wet I would put a lamp over the lambs.
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I suggest putting her in an adopter, too. It'smuch easier for you than having to turn or hold the ewe at regular intervals and much better for the lambs. If you start bottle feeding the lambs they'll soon be reluctant to suckle from the ewe. Molasses dotted near the top of their tails will get her used to their smell. I'd cull her after weaning, though.
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Years when we lambed our Swaledales first-timers outside we had hardly any mothering issues. Years we lambed them indoors we had way more. Many, many of them needing to be held for the lambs to suck for the first day or two. Some getting violent with the lambs, even a couple of lambs killed and quite a few where we had to keep the lamb apart from the mother (when we weren't there) until she'd taken it properly - as you do sometimes with fostering.
I have two theories about this. My first is that these wily hill sheep do what comes naturally when they are in a natural situation. Forcing them to be indoors, lambing where we say they shall lamb, and cooping them up with their lamb(s) in a tiny box, is a very unnatural situation and the stress of this overrides their natural mothering instincts. In the 'wild', they'd select a spot to lamb many days ahead of lambing, usually well away from other sheep, and drop their lambs quietly there. Even if they run away from the lambs at first, they know where they are and keep coming back. Eventually strong lambs get onto the teat and all is well.
My second theory is that, since we were only lambing shearlings indoors because the conditions outside weren't suitable for inexperienced mothers - the lambs would have perished before a nervy new mum settled and let them suckle - then by definition it was a year in which there would be a high lamb mortality. With a breed like Swales, the mothers are brutal in preserving their genes. So a Swale mum will abandon a weak lamb, will sacrifice one twin to preserve the other and even will leave her only lamb to a predator if the predator is clearly otherwise going to kill the ewe - and this is the way her genes survive.
I could never not make a ewe take her lamb(s), but I did come to realise that sometimes a ewe knew things I didn't and knew that either one or both lambs weren't fit to survive and/or that she herself was not fit enough to rear this lamb or lambs.
Blackface I assume is similar in these respects to Swaledale, being another hardy hill breed that's survived on the hills for many many generations.
So I wouldn't mark this ewe's card just yet. Give her support to help the lambs feed until you are sure they are feeding unaided, and now that she is penned, keep her penned until you are sure they are mothered up. If she does a good job from thereon, of course watch her next year but my prediction would be she is fine next time around ;)
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Whilst I don't tolerate mothering issues in older ewes, I do give any first timers a lot more benefit of the doubt. A lot of first time Mums find the birth process too much to cope with and I have had a few new Mums that a frightened of their lambs to start with. Twins for a first-timer can be just too much for her to handle sometimes! A lot of the lack of interest can just be down to pure exhaustion and you will probably find she is a great mum once she has recovered in herself.
Another very good method of getting a ewe to accept her lambs is to take a well behaved dog in to the lambing area - most ewes will instantly try and protect their young - works wonders.
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Oh - forgot to say - when lambing first-timers, of any breed, I routinely take birth fluids and rub them liberally all over the ewe's nose, so she licks them off her nose. 999 times out of 1000, she then continues and licks the lambs ;)
If you start bottle feeding the lambs they'll soon be reluctant to suckle from the ewe.
I know a lot of people say this, but I have never found it to be an issue. I've had dozens of lambs who for a few days or even some weeks will run to a twice-daily call of 'Toooooppppp Uuuuuuupppp!" and get a top-up from a bottle, but still stay with mum and drink from her in preference. A few have continued to need topping up until they are eating enough grass and cake to do without, but the majority stop coming for a top-up when mum's milk comes strong enough - usually when Mr Sun and Dr Green get their act together ;)
And where I have a lamb or lambs that I think may need topping up, either now or later (for instance triplets), I will see if one or any of them will take a little from a bottle straight away - they're easier to get onto a bottle when they're very young and it can be a bit of a struggle later. In fact, if the lambs are to stay with mum and get top-ups, you sometimes can't get them to take to a bottle at all if they weren't introduced to it at an early age. (They will eventually succumb to the bottle if it's their only option, but if mum's still there they'll go to her in preference, even if they're not getting anything out.)
What can be an issue is that a lamb that's been bottle-fed for a few days develops a powerful suction that can empty a 500ml bottle in a matter of seconds :o - and trying to get a ewe to accept that pulling on her teats can be a bit of a battle! But it can be done given a bit of time and encouragement.
So if I think a lamb needs help for one or two feeds then I might tube rather than bottle, but if I think I may be supplementing it for a few days then I get it onto a bottle straight away.
Oh, and if I have a dopey lamb won't get on the teat, I milk mum and bottle it into the lamb. Usually 30ml this way gives it the idea, and the strength, and I can get it onto the teat after that. Tubing it would give it strength but not waken up the sucking reflex. ;)
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Another very good method of getting a ewe to accept her lambs is to take a well behaved dog in to the lambing area - most ewes will instantly try and protect their young - works wonders.
Again, I know a lot of people swear by this but I have had some very bad experiences with it with Swaledales. A nervy new mum in a pen with lambs she doesn't yet understand, a dog outside the pen so she can't get away from it - the red mist comes down and she beats up everything in sight, being mostly the pen and the lambs. So be very cautious using this technique, and be ready to scoop up the lambs out of harms way and get the dog the heck out of there pronto if it all goes wrong. ;)
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I agree with rosemary on this one. It can be very confusing and exhausting for the first timers. I would persevere by holding the ewe and get the lambs on her. I find that a gentle hand is the best way allowing her to see and smell the lambs suckling from her. Although some are of the extremely obstreperous type! Make sure lambs have colostrum then leave them but keeping a balance between distance and a watchful eye. Unfortunately in this things too much interference can be the downfall.
A word on the dog technique. Yes it can work. Ive used it. But you have to have a calm and trustworthy dog. Any old will not do. And its a last resort.
Good luck :)
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Yes - you need a lurcher that thinks he is also a sheep like mine! I wouldn't be without my lurcher Zair at lambing time - he is such a help and he loves it all too. The first thing he does each morning at lambing time is go and check if there are any newborns. He makes a fantastic adoptive Mum too for any orphans, cleaning them up and letting them sleep with him etc. He has been invaluable to me in getting the odd ewe to accept a lamb but he is very quiet and laidback around the sheep and knows when to get out of the way himself!
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Hi all I have tubed the lambs and given then 50/60 ml of lam lac which they gobbled down the ewe seems not to have any milk could only get a pin head of colostrum out but no heat or lumps in udder she has not lambed early and been on ad lib hay and handful nuts/Beet .
Thanks for all suggestions my main concern there is no milk ,does anyone know a "magic" spell to get it moving
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Magic spell? Time.
If youre pretty sure its not mastitis then hopefully shell let her milk down soon. Keep the little bleeters on lamblac until then. Fingers crossed. And keep checking the bag.
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Also. If she hadnt got her mill yet have they had any colostrum? You need to get some into them asap. Rven if its just the powdered type. But some from a generous donor would be better. If they lambed at 9 this morning? Theyll be needing it within the next 2 hours and no later.
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Have to agree with sally about very materna/natural breeds being inside, last year had same problem with a nz romney first timer with twins not interested, held her for a few times every day + topped up with bottle until I eventually got fed up and let them out expecting to keep bottling lambs but hey presto she took to them almost straight away. Don't know how she did this year as I didn't keep her. Different sheep for different systems!
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had a sheiling lamb this week that were freaked out by head movement and kept trying to butt it and then have a little smell. I turned lamb round so she could lick its back and she were soon ok. had another lamb and both were crackers but she would have killed that 1st 1
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I have two theories about this. My first is that these wily hill sheep do what comes naturally when they are in a natural situation. Forcing them to be indoors, lambing where we say they shall lamb, and cooping them up with their lamb(s) in a tiny box, is a very unnatural situation and the stress of this overrides their natural mothering instincts. In the 'wild', they'd select a spot to lamb many days ahead of lambing, usually well away from other sheep, and drop their lambs quietly there. Even if they run away from the lambs at first, they know where they are and keep coming back. Eventually strong lambs get onto the teat and all is well.
Interesting. I worry when people buy sheep off me and are clearly going to ignore what I do and lamb them inside - they have been very heavily selected for maternal traits on an outdoor system and I have literally no idea how they will behave indoors. They can be akward at the best of times, which is fine because I don't gather them very often, so I reckon it saves time in the long run.
I'd still cull the ewe in question though.
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How are the little bleeters?
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Thanks for all suggestions we have had no internet or phone signal , the ewe has very little milk but not aggressive to lambs I have been topping up with lam lac and latching lambs on I have also put ewe on extra cake rations to try and increase milk production . The lambs are responding well and are lively enough but not too interested in going under I feel
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I had a poorly Suffolk lamb twins, one died as I wasn't there. The other she wouldn't feed although I held her for a few days and eventually bottle fed. Once she recovered about a week later she suddenly decided he loved him and he now feeds just from her.
My first time suffolks were a bit traumatised and took a few days to decide the lambs were ok. Only one twin still on bottle as he just wouldn't suckle. A pain cos he won't eat creep like the others :rant:
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Probably a bit late now, but you can get an injection fron the vet which causes the milk to be let down pretty promptly. But still better late than never.
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Oxytocin will work in 20-30 minutes. It also helps the ewe expel the afterbirth. If that doesn't come away it can leave them feeling off colour.
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A wee update one of the lambs died early this morning despite our efforts the other lamb is a nice strong lamb I think the idea of the ewe possibly knowing something isn't right could ring true the other one is getting something and bring topped up by the bottle .
Thanks for concern and advice ,just as one leaves then a strong set of twins arrive 2 x Charolais mule ewe lambs
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So sorry to hear that :bouquet: but congrats on the twins.
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Shame you lost one, but probably for the best in the end. :hug:
Sounds like the other one is doing well :thumbsup:
And nice news about the new pair :)
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These rookies either take to it like a duck to water :&> Or they are a bit of a 'mare :horse: .
We have had several difficult ones, we keep them penned, and gently hold ewe so that lambies can get latched on, bottles to top up or Baz will turn ewes, but failing that they would turn Into Molly lambs here x
Eta some once they get the gist are wonderful mums. We never fail to rub the newborn wet lamb into a rookies muzzle, sometimes that's all that is needed and they just click. We re watching now for any rookie babies, got one on top up from yesterday and Baz looking out for others, nowt wrong with top up if lamb is needing a little help, you ll spot them, be able to catch them, if you can't catch them, that's good.