The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Other => Topic started by: Sharondp on September 26, 2009, 07:53:48 pm
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Hi Guys.
We are going to have a 2 acre paddock, with a gentle slope, that we intend to keep a few goats (for milking), half a dozen sheep and maybe a donkey. There are so many books and sites with advice about housing, but thought I would ask here and get some advice.
We have large strip of flat land at the bottom of the paddock that we intend to fence off and use for housing/turnout. Given that we intend to milk the goats (only about 4 or 5) what housing would you recommend?. For the sheep (we would like to lamb in the future) again what housing? And what about housing for a donkey?
Would you recommend a field shelter in the paddock as well? What type of floor is best for the turnout area? Concrete?, sand, woodchip?
Any suggestions and ideas of where to buy reasonably priced wooden buildings online that would deliver to the Forest of Dean would be most welcome!
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Im sure there will be a local building/shed company to you. Dont get caught up in specialised designed 'housing' as an ordinary shed is usually much cheaper and we have adapted all ours for the type of animal we have in them.
Flooring for goats is better to be earth - our wooden one is starting to warp where the water spills and they wee when its too wet to go outside!
You'll need somewhere separate for milking, so think about whether you want one big, divided shed or more than one smaller ones.
The goats will need separate pens at least when they're kidding, but need to see each other. Having said that, we used a gate, which they've nearly destroyed!
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I would recommend a field shelter for the goats, they can catch pneumonia quite easily if they have no access to shelter. Also I would probably recommend a relatively hard standing for a turnout yard, concrete would be good, or hardcore, or even if you can get your hands on cheap paving slabs- I think any of those options would be better than sand or woodchip.
Shed wise, you could just get one big shed and use hurdles to divide, then you could have room to lamb inside if need be. But it depends on what is also cost effective for you- 2 or 3 wooden sheds might be better.
Just adding to what little blue has said, wooden floors will give out eventually. I don't know that I recommend earth floors though, it does allow good drainage (if you have good drainage on your land/ soil type). But they do have faults, vermin for one thing, as rats have no barrier at all to let them get in. I have a friend who isn't allowed to have a concrete floor in her goat shed (I forget why- its a legislation as she is on the edge of the Northumberland National Forest), but she is so fed up with the rats that she has now laid down paving slabs on top of the earth floor. Also if you don't have good drainage, then it wouldn't be good either. I'd hate to have earth floor here, as we are a really damp area with a heavy clay soil.
Beth
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Our goats have open fronted shelters. As we are in green belt, we have to be careful with concrete yards etc. so we have no frontage to he shelters .....does get muddy though. Earth floor inside, again due to the planning rules. Goats definitely need shelter from the wet weather, and so do donkeys.
Re the donkey: they are herd animals, and its usual to keep them in pairs. I know the donkey rescues will not rehome them unless you have two for this reason.
Two acres sounds a good size, but be careful you don't have too many animals on, especially in the wet weather ....it soon gets muddy, and churned up. Sheep especially eat right down , and the grass soon goes when they get going eating it, so I would probably split your field in half, so that one part could be resting, if thats possible. It will help conserve your grass a bit.
I have two goats, a llama, a pet sheep and a small pony on just under two acres, and I find that it gets very bare towards the end of the summer, and needs resting.
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without seeing the field my first thought was that you may have problems with water and wet patches if you build a shelter at the BOTTOM of a slope water will always run/drain towards it. Remember that animals will spend a lot of time around the shelter for , well, sheltering. This could lead to serious poaching problems
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Thanks for all your repiles.
Does anyone know of a company that sell wooden buildings online that would do the job?
Hubby is okay making a simple storm shelter, but not sheds or mobile stables etc...If any buildings came flatpacked again we would be fine!
Talking of mobile stables, am i right in thinking that in most cases planing permission is not required? If I did concrete a small area of the paddock to make a turn out area, would I need planning permssion for this as rule? I do hate the thought of concreting any of our lovely paddock though!
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What about the DIY stores? B & Q, Homebase etc? Or a local country joiner - they often make sheds.
As to a concrete base - can't see it needing permission, but I'd do it and if anyone 'clipes' say you didn't know. They are unlikely to ask you to dig it up. more likely is a 'letter of comfort' or planning/building warrant if it's required. We once put a toilet in upstairs, but I didn't need a letter of comfort till I was selling the property. It was about £200 I think. Planning consent would have been roughly the same plus an architect's fee into the bargain.
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What about this company? http://www.saltirestables.co.uk/index.shtml (http://www.saltirestables.co.uk/index.shtml) They are maybe a bit far north. I haven't used them personally, but I have a friend who has, and I have spoken to their rep at the Royal Highland show. I'n not sure how expensive they are though- but they could easily build you a barn type shed. My friend did have a problem in extremely high gale force winds, but the company were absolutely fantastic- she cannot rate them highly enough after that. Even their wooden garages, a big one would give you a good workable space and they aren't as expensive.
Beth
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From my own experience I would suggest a local joiner/shed builder. The ones from the 'highstreet' places are cheap and nasty normally and if you get a boisterous animal in one it wont stand up to much abuse. Also the price can be negotiated as the design can be altered to suit your needs. I have used my local guy to build a 20'x12' garage with shelving, it came in on a truck, they erected and roofed it but even better they painted it in their workshop prior to bringing it. All for £1150 - a great price compared to all the others I found on the t'internet. He has made a chicken coop and a shed to my designs for me too. The quality of wood used is far superior to the likes of B&Q,Screwfix etc so it will last longer. My grandad always said 'Buy cheap - Buy twice'
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We got a local contractor to build out sheep shelter - it's fab. There might be some pictures on the website - in fact I'm sure there are. It has telegraph poles at the corners and is solid as a rock. We've put gravel down and topped it with horsemats (because we had them anyway) and this seems to work quite well.
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Can anyone tell me what I can do with my really 'gross' chicken pen. It gets regularly flooded with the weather we've had and I now squelch through green and brown gloopy mud to get to the coop. The chicken shed is nice and dry inside with loads of straw for them(and a vinyl floor so easily cleaned), but the duck shed has no floor so I have a pallet in it with planks on top of that but it's disgusting underneath as I can't clean it. So it needs lifting onto a solid base. I need to get a few holes bored through the little wall up the middle of the run, down below ground level so the water can drain away, but can't do that myself. Not much money available to fix it but if there are any diy folk out there who can help I could find some, as I feel my birds are suffering now - and it stinks too. I have metal panels and another shed so the ducks could be moved if I can get that set up first, and I think I can then get bark to put down in the chicken run, but it needs draining first. I wish I was fit enough to do it all myself but I have now to admit that I'm not. I need a man (or two or three ;) ;D) before the SSPCA come knocking at my door. :'( :'( :'(;
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Donkeys have rubbish hooves and do not like it wet! Just a pointer to bear in mind
Danielle :pig: :horse:
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:)way too far away from you i am affraid but its a job that should not wait as the rats and bad weather are coming in the last thing you need is the smell of poultry to attract rats. i do hope you find the help you need and soon. as for bark if you have a never ending buget to spend its fine but as i found it soon dissapears we were using a couple of the latge bales a week. we now use sharp sand and straw they love scratching in it and the sand doubles up as grit.
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I have put down 2 tons of sharp sand in an area 36 feet by 18 feet. Should I have put down more than that - it's just squelching mud now. Central Scotland is known to be very wet but I didn't think it would be this bad! :'(
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Annie - Could you put some upside down plastic crates on the floor, then vinyl flooring over the top, then some bedding, but put a few holes in the vinyl to let water out and under, then get someone to dig a little trench away - just for now, until a more permanent solution is available. We have loads of blue trays that were used to deliver mushrooms and vegetables in, they are strong, and would be sturdy upside down.
How big is the house - could you post us or pm us a photo, and I will get Joe on a solution for you - he is great at diy. ;D ;D ;D
Julie and Joe
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Annie,
Alex and I are near at hand, if you need help. Only thing is Alex isn't too DIY minded, so not sure how much use we will be. My brothers in law are both better at that kind of thing, but are both busy with work and children. Would it maybe be an idea to knock out or cut out a section of wall and fit say a metal grid in the gap which would let water drain out? I don't know if that would be easier to do than drill though the wall at below ground level.
Beth
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Thanks, Beth, much appreciated. The wall has been very well constructed in staggered layers, and to be honest I did think of removing all or part of it, but it would be a huge job to do and then the end would need to be evened off. I think the best solution is to dig down about 8 or 9 inches and bore holes through the wall. My friend's brother-in-law was round today and he says he may be able to do this but he is in hospital for the next few days so it will have to wait unless I can get someone else to do it. I don't think I'll be going far from now on as Belle is now in the house - pups expected any day from now till around Guy Fawkes. So if you have time for a trip over here just call me (and bring some milk with you if you do ;) ;D ) If you could see it you might have some ideas.
Julie, the duck house is 6 feet by 4 feet and just sits on the ground. It did have a wooden base when I moved here but it has long since rotted away. The fencing is attached to either end of it by long nails, so we'd need to remove the fence to put in a new floor. The pallet is a fairly open one which is why everything just drops down into the stinking mud below around the boards that I put in for them to sit on. But it just gets worse and worse because it can't get cleaned out. I've put in loads of hay and straw to try to soak it up but I can only do that for so long. It's worrying me in case the birds could develop foot-rot (trenchfoot maybe ::) And the smell is awful! If I could even get the duck run set up that would help, I could move the ducks and close down the duck shed so the hens would all have to go into the hen shed. I have 6 metal grid panels, 8 of 2 x 2 fence posts, a nice clean little dog shed, and a great dane sized dog cage ready for them along with some heavy duty sheep fencing. Just need some brute force. And a little bit of dry weather!
If nothing else I've got it all off my chest! Thanks for letting me rant guys!
HAve attached a diagram to let you see what I mean
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Moregin - your grandad was very wise :)
Thanks everyone for your replies, we have found a local supplier/carpenter so will probably get one made to specs. Should hopefully move in to this property in the next couple of weeks so we can put all these plans into action!
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oooh! bet you're dead excited..........
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Moving in nexr Friday!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Hi, there is a really good company down Frome direction which sells field shelters for a ridiculously cheap price. I got a 12' square and 12' x 18' for under £1000 total. They are a two man job to assemble but if you use the bolts supplied they can be moved and my big horse uses the side as a bum scratcher and hasn't managed to knock down although we have since strengthened inner edges just in case!
... Just found details - Unit 3 Manor Road, Marston Trading Est, Frome BA11 4EN, tel 01373 461444 / 07970 854488.
I know a couple of other people using them and they are good value for money. Sometimes they will deliver
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Thank you!
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Hi, if you are planning on keeping sheep, goats etc you will need a CPH or holding number. That then allows you to apply for agricultural notification instead of a full planning application. You would need it for any agricultural building that is NOT moveable (and has a concrete base for example). I would plan my shed(s) and then talk to the planning department, especially if you plan to put down concrete floors (much better for goats etc if your soil is anywhere near clay...).
We have done it for our goathouse (10 x 24 feet) and hayshed (same size), as well as for polytunnel. No problem, except it was bit longwinded and I am sure they thought we were planning to build a horse stable (would need full PP) by the back door.... But it protects you from nosy neighbours etc etc and we actually have goats (and sheep) living in it!
Depends a bit on the size of sheds you are planning though...
Anke