The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Poultry & Waterfowl => Topic started by: Womble on September 25, 2009, 09:07:08 pm
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We picked up our new hens this week from Harmony Poultry (http://www.harmonypoultry.co.uk/), near Dumfries, and I thought I'd post a wee review and recommendation.
We had set our hearts on a couple of Welsummer hens to add to our flock, but they seem a bit thin on the ground locally! Happily, these folks breed all sorts of birds, including Welsummers in different colours.
The setup was actually quite a lot bigger than we had expected from the website, and Steve the owner evidently has a real passion for his birds, and insisted on giving us a full tour, and introducing us to the different breeds (too many to remember or list!!). All the birds were well housed, and were in great condition (not a scraggy one amongst them). The prices were also very reasonable.
So, having heard some real horror stories recently, I thought I'd just post up this wee review and recommendation. We'll post up some pics of our Welsummers (they're gorgeous by the way), just as soon as they've settled into their new surroundings and our existing girls have stopped hassling them!
We obviously have no connection here other than being satisfied customers, but if this review turns up in somebody's Google search and puts another customer their way, that's no bad thing. Certainly from what we saw, this place is very well run, and has some lovely birds on offer - we only wish we had room for a few more!
Cheers!
Womble.
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It's always good to have personal recommendations, Womble. I gather from that you won't be at Caley tomorrow then after the conditions we saw last time there!
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Ah, you thought the same about the Caley market as we did then?
All I'll say is that our new birds are feather perfect (well, they were until they met our Black Rocks at least :o), as were the rest of the ones we saw. We particularly liked the Sussex/RIR crosses we saw at Harmony - surprisingly pretty colouring.
Frankly we could have easily come away with half a dozen, and all of different types. Lucky I had Mrs Womble with me as the voice of reason!
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Yup, James and I wrote to them - I got no reply don't know about James. No water, wire floors. Easily rectified - water bowls attached to sides of cages and cardboard on floor instead of thin brown paper. Not going tomorrow as I'd just get angry
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I'll tell you if it's better later.
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Yup, James and I wrote to them - I got no reply don't know about James. No water, wire floors. Easily rectified - water bowls attached to sides of cages and cardboard on floor instead of thin brown paper. Not going tomorrow as I'd just get angry
I did not receive anything either Annie, they are obvioulsy uninterested in anything rather than money.
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It's not good practice to cage birds with water at a show or sale. The water invariably gets spilt, and odour and potential for spread of disease is greatly increased.
Show birds are lifted off the home perch at the crack of dawn, transported, penned, and judged before they are allowed food/water, and they come to no harm. The reasons for that is that they shouldn't have a full crop when being exhibited, nor should they spill crop water onto the judges when being handled. Also, because they are usually on show to the general public after the judging has finished, their cages need to be clean. Most exhibitors give water just after the judging, but take it out after the birds have had a drink.
Writing to the mart about these alleged 'bad' conditions will only serve to dissuade the mart from putting these sales on in future, which has been the demise of many good sales when misinformed do-gooders complained about such things as live birds having their necks pulled in the mart corridors after the farmers had bought them at Christmas sale. The good old SS(PCA) moved in, the mart had to meet certain criteria which cost more, and effectively made these Christmas poultry sales, where many small producers sold their wares, untenable.
Previously, it had been farmers and country people who frequented these sales, to buy live birds a few days before Christmas, often quietly (and humanely) killing them away from the side of the ring. Unfortunately, the clientelle were infiltrated by non country folks who couldn't understand such affairs and, equally unfortunately, they saw some birds flapping in their death throes, and immediately got their hysterical heads on, whilst shielding their inquisitive children from the 'gruesome' sights. A few complaints later, the much attended pre-Christmas live poultry sales were stopped.
It was a shame because I used to be able to buy hens in lots, which had had their tails clipped denoting that their eighteen months of life was considered ample, and that they were to be sold for killing, for twenty or thirty pence each, take them home, put them through a moult, and keep them for another two years or so, during which time they bountifully rewarded my compassion with a near constant supply of large eggs.
I bought young geese by the pen, which had been reared for killing, often not wanted at the end of the sale due to a surfeit, for a few quid, and kept them for breeding stock, or for sale at a profit at a later date. Ducks too, sometimes.
Turkeys were sold live, held against the breasts of strong, but grimacing mart attendants, so that it was possible to judge what sort of care the birds had had during their short lives, according to their size, their state, and the condition of their plumage.
The buyers could see each bird live, assess its condition, and see its weight chalked up on a board as the bidding opened, and were able to pay what they could afford for a bird they had chosen, as the seemingly endless supply passed through, all accompanied by the lilting, jesting tones of the auctioneers who knew every bidder in the place, and who knew that this was the last sale before a welcome break for festivities, before the serious business of farming resumed in the New Year.
Successful bidders waddled and strode off to their respective vehicles, often accompanied by, and sometimes needing the support of, their wives, fresh from Festive shopping in the town, if they were men who liked a dram at these sales, carrying with them their Christmas dinner, as well as the last few words of that year uttered by their counterparts as they too went their ways. Competitive and forthright they may have been in the previous months, but at Christmas poultry sale there was much pulling of legs, mutual respect, and jocular cheer.
Those who had been too indecisive or timorous went home with the prospect of sourcing Christmas dinner elsewhere that year.
Good times, and better memories.
Please don't complain too vociferously on the plight of a few birds confined for a few hours in a place of public auction lest we lose that small pleasure from being able to get something new, meet old friends, and keep something for our children.
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So, what you are saying is the animals are subjected to this cruelty to make us "do gooders" feel better? If that is the case then I think we goody two shows have a lot more complaining to do - no animal should be kept in sub standard conditions for the good of any one. No matter how much a pleasureable day out it gives any one!
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I don't want to start a riot (honest ;)) but I can sort of see AengusOg's point, as well as James & Annies' too - obviously ;D
In my humble opinion the birds aren't being kept in these conditions, merely 'stored' for a few hours until they are sold. It's similar in a lot of ways to loading them into a lorry or trailer to go to slaughter - it's not the nicest way to do it, but it's got to be workable and economically viable.
The point about water + smell / spread of disease is a valid one, I'm sure complaints would increase significantly if all birds sold were dirty, smelly and possibly diseased.
I am an animal lover, I hate to hear of abuse or neglect - but, I come from a farming background and like AengusOg remember the 'good ol' days' before health & safety and red tape. Yes, there were good memories made then, but also a degree of sticking your head in the sand. I've no doubt that conditions are FAR better now than they were then.
Livestock auctions aren't for everyone, they are MY least favourite way to buy animals, but for people who are buying or selling a large amount of stock, it saves time & hassle. Auctions are steeped in tradition, friends meet, farmers laugh at the newbies, first timers blow their budgets in no time - I for one (although not their biggest fan) would be sad to see them go.
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Interesting! Actually, it wasn't so much the condition of the pens at the auction that I found unacceptable, but the dishevelled look to most of the stock! OK, so you might expect a few missing feathers here and there from cockerel 'activity', but some of the birds looked downright miserable and unhealthy IMHO.
So, all in all, we were quite happy with our wee journey to Dumfriesshire, and would definitely recommend this supplier to others.
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One thing I would point out is that all the birds at this weeks sale at Stirling did have water. Of course many of them had also split their water all over the place. I have to say I do kind of agree with AengusOg, maybe thats because I have shown before and I am used to their ways. Feeding a chicken and then travelling it can actually make them ill as well, so I certainly don't hold with feeding them at a sale.
To also agree with Womble I was surprised by some things- a 4 week old RIR chick, with deformed toes, and how many feathers missing etc.
Beth
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I'm sorry Aengus, but just because something has 'always been done that way' it is not a good reason to continue doing it. I am probably of an age with yourself, and although from country stock, not directly farming, I have to say that animal welfare is a priority before any enjoyment of booze and shopping prior to cooking that well displayed and probably terrified turkey.
I can see your point regarding showing birds. Yes they must be clean, but you can't train a bird to poop and wee in a specific place or time - or am I wrong about that too?
So I can see no problem whatsoever in having coop water bowls attached to the sides of the cages, and firmer cardboard on the floors so that they were not standing on bare wires. As far as I am concerned Womble has a very valid point too - I was amazed at how many birds were in such bad condition and long before moult time too. Yes there were some feathers missing on hens backs because of excessive attention from a beau but a lot of them were pretty scraggy looking skinny things and I for one would only have bought them to rescue them from that. I won't go back to another sale for a long time unless they can reassure me that those two simple measures will be implemented - coop bowls and thicker flooring.
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You'll always find poor birds at these auctions.........that's how people get rid of their rubbish. Although it's sometimes possible to find good birds, in good condition, that is the exception rather than the rule.
Actually, I was planning to sell some very good, older breeding birds at that sale, but held them back because they are in full moult just now, and looking terrible, despite the fact that they are living totally free-range at the moment.
Womble has the rights of it, in my opinion. That's probably the safest way to buy poultry.
In terms of remonstrance, I prefer to focus my attention on the transportation of live horses for slaughter. That is a real animal welfare issue which, because it is seldom witnessed by the compassionate among us, is hardly ever mentioned outwith the bounds of the equine press.
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Apart from the odd one or two, I thought the birds at Stirling looked OK. No sneezing, runny eyes etc. I woudl have been happy to buy if the prices had been lower. My hens are moulting just now and look pretty scabby - not sure they woudl have sold!
While I am not saying that either James or Annie have gone off half cocked, it's sometimes easy to react to an initial impression without really understanding what is going on and why. IMHO that's the reason for the fox hunting ban.
I agree about the transport of live horses - horrific.
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Ooooh, foxhunting.........that's an interesting subject. ;D
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the horse debate is worthy of its own thread. yes its cruel to send live horses abroard for slaughter. but thats down to our view of horses not being a meat animal. without the chance to sell off excess colts as meat which i would not do then there is an over supply of them. case in point shetland pony colts were selling for less than £15 last year. if there is no market for these horses then they are going to suffer.
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Its alright for you lot in the sticks, at least you can shoot them!
I'm in an urban area with chicks in the back garden. Admittedly my garden is therefore a bit of a fox magnet, but the neighbourhood seems over-run with them. I can't poison them (apparently illegal, also respect for neighbours pets), can't shoot them. Got onto local council website who assured me I won't be able to trap them, they're too clever for that, its ok for the neighbours to feed them and its not their responsibility. Oh and the fox poo in my garden is unlikely to do anyone any harm, despite the fox population carrying various diseases. Unlike my dog poo which has to be picked up incase it gives anyone worms. I have two dogs which would happily chase any small mammals, but understand it's illegal for them to do so! But its ok for the fox to kill any of my chicks I'm careless enough to let out of there stockade for 5 minutes - or for that matter other childrens pets, in fact its all our fault for not building strong enough fortifications!! Its all very frustrating. Sorry, rant over.
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I posted some info about this on another thread, can't rememeber which one though - sorry !
Foxes ARE classed as pests and as such your council HAVE to deal with them.
Here's a snippet from the fox site website,
Can I get someone to trap and remove the foxes in my garden?
Yes: there are no legal restrictions on catching foxes in cage traps so long as these are checked at least once every 24 hours, although in the UK it is illegal to catch foxes in leghold (gin) traps. However, it is probably not worth the expense. Vacant territories are generally recolonized within a few days. Whilst most trapped foxes are shot, some operators have admitted to releasing foxes a few miles from where they were trapped. This is a very questionable activity, especially since foxes home over considerable distances. Exceptionally, foxes have been recorded homing up to 100 miles (150 kilometres), and trapped foxes are quite likely to return home if released within 30 miles (50 kilometres) of their point of capture.
http://www.thefoxwebsite.org/faq/urbanfoxproblems.html#q14 (http://www.thefoxwebsite.org/faq/urbanfoxproblems.html#q14) has loads more information.
Also if you google 'pest control foxes' you'll get loads of links with info.
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I saw a program on tv where two men caught urban foxes, they had a pest control company in London, Ratting Pidgeons Foxes etc trapping and poisoning, so im sure it must be legal? They usually let out the foxes in the country (the pest control and RSPCA etc), on which gamekeepers and lampers shoot them sraight away, an urban fox will stand in a lamp but a country fox will run sraight off! So they do either find there way back or get shot fairly sharpish?!
I think they charge a fortune tho for the trapping, and from what people have told me the council never bother and do nothing about the foxes?! Understanderble how frustrating it is for town folk keeping chickens etc!!! >:(
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According to my local council one can't trap and release foxes as it may be against some 'Animal Abandonment' Act!! Sorry, can't remember it, and don't want to re-read the article as it made me so cross, it was like the little beasts were some sort of outdoor pet, and the council were giving a whole lot of excuses as to why it wasn't going to do anything about the problem. However, OH saw about 7 within 100 yards of the place a while ago, which seems a bit excessive to me. Anyway, thanks for the info, will be doing some reading.
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I think you might be right about the abandonment thing - generally someone 'dispatches' them ater they're trapped or releases them with permission onto farm/amenity land.
Incidentally, on the trapping issue - did you know it's ILLEGAL to release a grey squirrel that's been trapped, you've GOT to kill it.
xnbacon - I'd go back to your council, kick up absloute stink - they obiviously deal with mice and rats in terms of pest control - foxes are the same - VERMIN. Write to your local MP, go to senior council peeps, keep hounding them (excuse the bad pun) you pay your council tax (I presume ;)) and they are not providing a service which is so obviously required (7 within 100 yards is a fairly high amount, even if you take into account some of them are cubs - I'd say) Good luck !