The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: charb73 on March 13, 2014, 08:43:32 pm
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Hi there, I am new to this site and am doing all my research and am pretty confident that two kune kunes weaners are just right for our introduction to pig keeping. I am happy with the thought of keeping them for up to 10+months to get them to a suitable weight before we kill them, but my husband is challenging me that it can't be cheaper than keeping 2 traditional breeds for up to 6 months? Please explain the logic? I thought kune kunes were a good choice size wise for our space and more mangeable and will give our family of 6 the right amount of meat for us to eat for personal use too? Thoughts please thank you Charlotte
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I think its down to them being good grazers and this reduces the amount of bought-in feed. other pigs will graze/root etc but don't gain much nutrition from the grass so still need a good feed. plus kunes are a lot smaller.
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With a large breed weaner you are increasing the feed in line with the age/weight of the pigs.....
2lbs a month when they are 2 months, 3lbs at 3 months and so on up to a maximum of 6lbs per month.
If you got them at 8 weeks and killed at 24 weeks they'd have eaten 420 lbs of hard feed each (give or take)
Whereas a Kunekune will eat 1-1.5lbs of hard feed every day and graze to fill their bellies ;)
So, getting them at 8 weeks with a view to slaughtering them at 10 months (40 weeks) they would have eaten 224lbs of hard feed each (again, give or take). They will need a bit more room to roam and forage than 'big' pigs - half an acre as a minimum for 2 and I'd be tempted to leave them to closer to a year old before sending them off (but it's entirely down to personal choice).
They are great little pigs, but I would say that - I breed them ;D :innocent:
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other factors to take into account £ per weaner ? the kill & cut is the same for a small pig as a large pig one of the slaughter houses we use wont kill them !! so worth checking out.
we did try kk's but they were free so made cheap meat we found them better for sausages than joints the cuts were too small for us as a family nice eating though, but at the time of us having the we had hampshires so we sent one kk to each hampshire to mix in for sausage & burgers :hungry: yum.
we only ever feed 4 - 5lb hard feed to our traditional fatteners any more and they carry too much back fat.
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The way I see it is they might be cheaper to feed on a daily basis but take twice as long to finish and are only a small pig at the end of it. OK if it's just a hobby nut no use at all if you're producing meat as a business. We did have a few KK crossed pigs given to us last year which made an ok but small carcass at about 8 months old. One of them got in pig by we think an OSB young lad and is still here, due to farrow any day now. Will be interesting to see what arrives piglet wise.
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Here's our experience last year.
http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/diary/kunekune-pigs-for-meat/ (http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/diary/kunekune-pigs-for-meat/)
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I usually steward the judging at the Royal Three Counties and I was told by a NZ Kune Kune judge that the pigs were bred small so they could fit in a canoe when their nomadic owners set off for pastures new. 'Nuff said .....
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I usually steward the judging at the Royal Three Counties and I was told by a NZ Kune Kune judge that the pigs were bred small so they could fit in a canoe when their nomadic owners set off for pastures new. 'Nuff said .....
Sounds plausible but I'll just take some six month old saddlebacks ;D
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Charlotte, here's my view on Kune Kunes ;D
Please bear in mind I am a first time pig keeper and have been both a pig and Kune Kune owner now for the grand total of 8 days! :innocent:
I was looking to produce pork for home consumption only, we have no intention of selling any on.
I have been to see many traditional and larger breeds to get an idea of what I was getting into and had almost settled on Tamworths when I saw Kune Kunes.
I had previously dismissed them as being too small/pet/toy pigs etc but I saw on TAS that a few people had kept them for meat so thought it worth investigating further.
Here are the plus points that pushed me the way of Kunes:
They do very well on grass, (apparently they could survive on grazing alone) which saves feed compared to other breeds.
They don't eat as much as larger breeds, I currently have 9 Kunes, there's no way I could afford to keep 9 larger breed pigs in food. Even if you can source free fruit or veg a larger amount is required per pig for the large breeds.
I'm planning on doing the feed/meat produced calculation once I gather some figures together.
We have a breeding trio of adult Kunes, they are hopefully going to be around for a while producing further litters, I don't think cost wise I could have justified keeping breeding stock of larger breed pigs but being able to keep breeding stock should save me money (again, I will work out the cost over time)
Yes they are a lot smaller and will produce a lot less meat but 40-50Kg of meat per pig is ideal for me, I don't need a large amount of freezer space per pig and we can just kill them one at a time as we need them.
Choosing Kunes made a lot of sense to me in terms of any of the pigs having a health problem..
i.e. if you have two large pigs and one drops dead after eating a whole load of feed its a BIG loss in both feed costs and meat, if you have 6 small ones and one drops its not such a big hit.
That might be quite a rare occurrence but with livestock anything can happen…
My only other concern was with the actual physical size of the larger pigs, we have kids around ours and although they don't go in beside the pigs unsupervised, I really didn't fancy them or even me in beside a big heavy pig.
It seems to be quite unusual to find a particularly aggressive pig in either small or large breeds but even just by accident a large animal can do a lot of damage.
I once worked with a guy who walked down the wall side of a bull to get past it and it leaned into him for a good scratch and pinned him against the wall, he lived for a few weeks in hospital before he died.
Now I know that was a poor decision to walk between the bull and the wall but it just shows you the damagea large animal can do even without intending to.
even our Kune Boar just nudges me out the way as easy as you like and i'm a 20 stone ex rugby forward! :innocent:
I also intend to home kill them so the abattoir/butchery costs being the same for a Kune vs larger breed don't come into it for us although it is worth taking into account
So cost wise I can't help you yet but those are the reasons I went with the Kunes :thumbsup:
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Another thing the NZ KK judge mentioned was that people were breeding them larger/crossing in something bigger like OSB for more meat, so KK's might not be as small as you'd thought. Ask to see sire and dam if you can.
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I used to breed kunes :)
I loved them and found them lovely pigs to keep, however some can be pretty big with long lean backs and some can be more "pet" size even though they are all pedigree.
I sent mine for sausages, pork, gammon and bacon, all of it superb
if my sows had really good grazing then from April through to September they didnt need any supplementary feeding.
Yes you have to keep them to 10months before getting a good size on the amount of feed Karen says you have to feed them and they are small for a 10 month old pig, but a 10 month kune can be around the same size (80 kilo) as a 5 month old other breed pig. so the slaughter costs would then work out the same ::) ::)
I have sent some pigs to an abattoir that charges per kilo to kill so this worked out fine
Also as long as they have plenty of space to run around and lots of yummy grazing then they dont get over fat, butcher says they were leaner than some other traditional breeds he has in!
for 2 years I once had some that never rooted, even in the winter, but generally as soon as the protein levels drop in the grass (Octoberish) then down the heads will go and up your fields will come :excited:
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i have kept kunes for nearly 15 years and have never had a 10 month old kune weigh 80kgs :o
At 10 months, on 1lb sow nuts a day and unlimited grazing mine would be around 45 kgs
my berkshires, on approx 2lbs sow nuts a day and unlimited grazing reach 80 kgs at 10 months. I prefer to raise them slowly but i can't see how a kunekune (pure bred) can reach that weight at that age, unless it is grossly fat :thinking:
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but i can't see how a kunekune (pure bred) can reach that weight at that age, unless it is grossly fat :thinking:
Come and see mine Wendy ;) :thumbsup:
They're definitely not fat (and they all have BKKPS pedigrees) - we sent off an 11 month old Berkshire and an 11 month old Kunekune at the same time once. The Berkshire was heavier obviously, but it also had more back fat than the Kunekune :innocent:
I think some Kunekunes have become smaller because people have been selectively breeding for the pet pig market for so long - it's changed the size of the breed somewhat from the 'original' pigs which were imported to the UK. I don't know, but I often wonder what sort of size/weight Kunekune pigs are averaging worldwide ?
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I think some Kunekunes have become smaller because people have been selectively breeding for the pet pig market for so long - it's changed the size of the breed somewhat from the 'original' pigs which were imported to the UK. I don't know, but I often wonder what sort of size/weight Kunekune pigs are averaging worldwide ?
I think the reverse is true - judging by the size of the pigs which came over from New ZealandA fair few people in the UK have cross bred the kune to produce larger pigs for meat and we have now strayed a fair way from the original little 'fat and round' maori pig They were always a small pig but this mattered not to the maoris as a) they wanted the fat because they used it to preserve their fresh food in and b) they cooked the kunekune as a 'hungi' rather than joint it up and package it as we do
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Well today I have been given two KuneKunes. They're about two years old, castrated males, and are actually quite slim. I'd estimate their weight to be about 75kg each. They're straight off to the abattoir tomorrow! In this case the KK's have definitely worked out cheaper in the short term!
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Get ready for some of the best sausages you've ever tasted Hughesy :thumbsup:
Please report back with dead weights and your opinion on the taste......if you don't mind :eyelashes:
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Get ready for some of the best sausages you've ever tasted Hughesy :thumbsup:
Please report back with dead weights and your opinion on the taste......if you don't mind :eyelashes:
Well the sausages are sure to be top notch because I'll be making them myself! ;D I will report on friday when I've got the carcasses back. Not sure if they're pure KK as their shape is a bit more like a normal pig if you know what I mean. Longer and not as round looking as some. I'll try and get a piccie before we set off for the abattoir.
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Mine are longer and not so round either - there is a huge variation in the size/shape of the breed, that's why I love them so much ! The good ones get earmarked for breeding (not to be eaten under any circumstances ;)) the smaller males tend to be the ones sold as outdoor 'pets' and the others that don't make breed standard get run on for the freezer - it's been working well for us so far.
I gave half a Kunekune to my butcher a wee while ago (I'd been telling him all about them - but to him, a pig is a pig - all pretty much the same) and he phoned a couple of weeks ago to say how surprised he was that he could tell the difference between it and other pork, and he was really impressed with the taste too :thumbsup:
You'd probably be hard pushed to make any kind of commercial pork producing venture from them (unless you have lots of acreage) but they are great wee porkers - lovely meat and a joy to keep :innocent:
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You'd probably be hard pushed to make any kind of commercial pork producing venture from them (unless you have lots of acreage) but they are great wee porkers - lovely meat and a joy to keep :innocent:
absolutely spot on!
going back to folks like me breeding them down in size - i have never bred away from the second generation of imports from New Zealand so i think what i have is a pretty good example of what the maoris had
The taller, leggier ones i think you will find are the ones that have been produced in the UK . Hafren pigs were a big meat producer at the start of the kunekunes in UK and i know for a fact that they were bred 'up' in size for precisely this reason
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Not sure if they're pure KK as their shape is a bit more like a normal pig if you know what I mean. Longer and not as round looking as some. I'll try and get a piccie before we set off for the abattoir.
i rest my case ;)
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Well I got the carcasses back today. They've got quite a good fat covering but nothing like the KK carcasses I've seen at the abattoir before. The meat is quite dark and looks good. The fat is also nice and white and firm, ideal for sausages and black pudding. Overall quite pleased considering I got em for nowt! I would say they were abot 80kg live weight at just under two years old.