The Accidental Smallholder Forum

Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: Sasha on March 08, 2014, 02:41:18 pm

Title: Tagging weaners that have already got a tag in
Post by: Sasha on March 08, 2014, 02:41:18 pm
Hi, apologies if I'm asking the obvious, but these are my first pigs (and they're very fun)!

I've got some weaners that were already tagged when they were delivered to me, so when any of them leave me and I have to tag them with my herd no, do I leave the existing tag in as well and do I put my tag in the same ear or the other ear?

Thanks in advance. :)
Title: Re: Tagging weaners that have already got a tag in
Post by: ScotsGirl on March 08, 2014, 06:23:30 pm
I haven't looked it up but do you have to re-tag. Surely it's like sheep and you just note the number on the form if going to slaughter?  Most of our weaners we bought in weren't tagged so we put one in before sending to slaughter. One fell out the day before and we didn't notice but abbattoir weren't bothered as they could see the hole where it was.
Title: Re: Tagging weaners that have already got a tag in
Post by: hughesy on March 08, 2014, 08:03:25 pm
To go to slaughter pigs need to be tagged with the herd number of the holding they are departing from, ie yours, XY1234 or whatever it is. If I remember correctly there is somewhere in the movement licence which allows you to add the number of the holding of birth also. So even if they're tagged with a herd number now you'll still have to add yours when you send them to the abattoir.
Title: Re: Tagging weaners that have already got a tag in
Post by: mowhaugh on March 08, 2014, 08:09:39 pm
I would have thought the best thing for the pig would be to cut the existing tag out and put yours in the same hole, but is that OK re the rules?  I was going to ask the same question as we are taking Miss Piggy, the pig we bought to keep Doreen company until we got Delilah to the slaughterhouse next week.
Title: Re: Tagging weaners that have already got a tag in
Post by: Berkshire Boy on March 08, 2014, 08:29:42 pm
It's illegal to remove a tag. When weaners are sold off the holding of birth they shouldn't be tagged.
Title: Re: Tagging weaners that have already got a tag in
Post by: Fowlman on March 08, 2014, 09:10:57 pm
This batch i have now that are going next week, for some reason came with temporary tags (plastic), i have the metal slaughter tags which i will put in on the day but was wondering about these plastic ones, i assume ok to leave in ?
Title: Re: Tagging weaners that have already got a tag in
Post by: mowhaugh on March 08, 2014, 09:31:13 pm
It's illegal to remove a tag. When weaners are sold off the holding of birth they shouldn't be tagged.

So, my pig did come with a tag, in order to send her to slaughter, I presume I put mine in in addition?
Title: Re: Tagging weaners that have already got a tag in
Post by: Berkshire Boy on March 08, 2014, 09:44:33 pm
Yes they need tagging or slap marking with your herd number to go to the abattoir.
Title: Re: Tagging weaners that have already got a tag in
Post by: mowhaugh on March 08, 2014, 09:50:16 pm
I am so confused! Just been reading the guidance again, and it says that pigs must be identified before leaving holding of birth with either tag, tattoo, slapmark or temporary mark (so long as under 12 months and just moving between farms), and bearing in mind the discussion we are having it would seem that the temporary mark would be the best for weaners, but it doesn't say they shouldn't be tagged.

Why do there have to be so many different sets of rules, you would think they could have the same ones for different species of livestock, it would be much less confusing.  Now hoping Miss Piggy manages to lose her tag in the next few days so I can replace and cross reference in out register.

Thank you to all the knowledgeable people for your help!

Sorry Berkshire Boy, typed all that before you replied, I will put one of our tags in too, thank you.
Title: Re: Tagging weaners that have already got a tag in
Post by: Berkshire Boy on March 08, 2014, 10:07:50 pm
It is a bit baffling. Weaners that are being sold for breeding usually get tagged at the holding of birth and meat pigs tend to move on a temporary mark.
Title: Re: Tagging weaners that have already got a tag in
Post by: Tudful Tamworths on March 08, 2014, 10:52:01 pm
Just been reading the guidance again, and it says that pigs must be identified before leaving holding of birth with either tag, tattoo, slapmark or temporary mark (so long as under 12 months and just moving between farms)


Don't know where you got your information from, but it's wrong. They can move from the holding of birth on a temporary mark as long as they're less than a year old. But a second move (either holding to holding or holding to abattoir or to a show) requires a tag with YOUR herd mark.
There was no need for the breeder of your pigs to tag them (although some breeders do, as a management thing, e.g. to differentiate between litters when mixing them).
They WILL need a metal tag (or slap mark) with your own herd number when you send them for slaughter.
YOUR herd number will be on the document, so just point out to staff/the vet at the abattoir that the metal tag (or the slap mark - whichever you decide on) is the correct number.
Title: Re: Tagging weaners that have already got a tag in
Post by: mowhaugh on March 09, 2014, 07:22:02 am
Just been reading the guidance again, and it says that pigs must be identified before leaving holding of birth with either tag, tattoo, slapmark or temporary mark (so long as under 12 months and just moving between farms)


Don't know where you got your information from, but it's wrong. They can move from the holding of birth on a temporary mark as long as they're less than a year old. But a second move (either holding to holding or holding to abattoir or to a show) requires a tag with YOUR herd mark.


Sorry, didn't word that right, thank you for clarifying.  I did understand it from the ScotEID guidance, but managed to type something different!
Title: Re: Tagging weaners that have already got a tag in
Post by: hughesy on March 09, 2014, 08:18:23 am
A good point here is that when you buy weaners from the holding they were born on, try to ensure that the breeder doesn't put tags in. Move them on a temporary mark, eg a blob of marker paint or even a quick dash of purple spray or suchlike. I once had quite a heated debate with a breeder i bought some weaners off as he insisted he had to tag them and I insisted not. The fact is if they're under 12 months old and it's their first move they don't need tags.
Title: Re: Tagging weaners that have already got a tag in
Post by: mowhaugh on March 09, 2014, 10:01:58 am
That is excellent advice which I will definitely be following when we eventually get to the point of selling weaners!
Title: Re: Tagging weaners that have already got a tag in
Post by: shygirl on March 09, 2014, 10:36:56 am
I always tagged my weaners that I sold as they were birth-notified - and tattooed the registered ones. im sure when i slaughtered bought-in pedigree pigs I sent them with their original tags in, but noted it on the movement document. no-one said anything about it being wrong.
I always used plastic/rubber tags and as I got the heads back I can verify the tags were in perfect condition after the killing process.
a slapmarker would be a good investment though.
Title: Re: Tagging weaners that have already got a tag in
Post by: mowhaugh on March 09, 2014, 11:39:41 am
Just been reading the guidance again, and it says that pigs must be identified before leaving holding of birth with either tag, tattoo, slapmark or temporary mark (so long as under 12 months and just moving between farms)


Don't know where you got your information from, but it's wrong. They can move from the holding of birth on a temporary mark as long as they're less than a year old. But a second move (either holding to holding or holding to abattoir or to a show) requires a tag with YOUR herd mark.


Sorry, didn't word that right, thank you for clarifying.  I did understand it from the ScotEID guidance, but managed to type something different!

OK, have read the guidance again, and I do think it says what I put first, and I am thinking it says the same as you said, Tudful Tamworths, but of course you have added the extra info about it needing to be tagged for a second move?  I am not trying to be argumentative (and as far as I can see we agree anyway!), but I am unsure what is incorrect about my original statement and would appreciate it is someone could explain in words of one syllable so I don't get it wrong and break any rules!  Sheep are so much simpler!
Title: Re: Tagging weaners that have already got a tag in
Post by: shygirl on March 09, 2014, 12:37:08 pm
I think scotlands different....
Title: Re: Tagging weaners that have already got a tag in
Post by: hughesy on March 09, 2014, 01:04:51 pm
And obviously all this is referring to pigs that will be going for meat, not registered stock that will be kept for breeding.
Title: Re: Tagging weaners that have already got a tag in
Post by: Sasha on March 09, 2014, 03:24:14 pm
I should have probably clarified things in my original post.  For some reason the weaners I bought in have the plastic button tags in their ears even though it was their first move off holding of birth.  I'm now got a friend who'd like to buy a couple off me to root around their farm as pets and I don't know if I'm supposed to add my own tag as well?  Because otherwise they'd be moving on a mark that's not mine, but surely it's a bit daft for them to have two different tags in for the two holdings they've been on?  It's all so confusing...
Title: Re: Tagging weaners that have already got a tag in
Post by: mowhaugh on March 09, 2014, 03:39:19 pm
Sorry I have hijacked your thread, Sasha!
Title: Re: Tagging weaners that have already got a tag in
Post by: Sasha on March 09, 2014, 03:43:28 pm
No problem! :)
Title: Re: Tagging weaners that have already got a tag in
Post by: Fowgill Farm on March 10, 2014, 09:44:50 am
I should have probably clarified things in my original post.  For some reason the weaners I bought in have the plastic button tags in their ears even though it was their first move off holding of birth.  I'm now got a friend who'd like to buy a couple off me to root around their farm as pets and I don't know if I'm supposed to add my own tag as well?  Because otherwise they'd be moving on a mark that's not mine, but surely it's a bit daft for them to have two different tags in for the two holdings they've been on?  It's all so confusing...
If you are moving them on to live somewhere else they should be moved on the tags they came to you on as they are the breeders tags. Just note the deatils on your movement licence.
For slaughter in'theory' they should have your own tags however in practice most abbattoirs will accept them on the breeders tags, we quite often give people buying weaners metal slaughter tags bearing our details if it is their first foray into pigs as its so expensive to buy pliers and tags for 2 pigs! We have never had any come back and because of AML's and info on those the traceable element is complete. This is in England.
HTH
mandy :pig:
 
Title: Re: Tagging weaners that have already got a tag in
Post by: oaklandspigs on March 10, 2014, 05:20:47 pm
Sorry, I have come in a bit late on this one, my wife has been judging at Crufts.

A couple of quick points.

1.England, Scotland and Wales have exactly the same rules, but they are enacted under there different pieces of legislation.

2. It is NOT illegal to slapmark, tattoo, or eartag a weaner, but because it can (can not does) cause confusion later then (apart from any breed tattoos, which have nothing to do with legal id), it has become normal practice not to tag or otherwise weaners leaving holding of birth live to live under 12 months, and it is normal to only have a temporary paint mark.  If breeder does it, then that's up to them, and if you want to then that's fine.





Title: Re: Tagging weaners that have already got a tag in
Post by: mowhaugh on March 10, 2014, 08:00:41 pm
Thank you, that is very helpful.
Title: Re: Tagging weaners that have already got a tag in
Post by: Sasha on March 12, 2014, 02:00:53 pm
Thanks, I'll just move them on the ones they've got in and put it on the movement license.  I didn't see the point in him having tagged them either.