The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: spandit on February 28, 2014, 04:21:38 pm
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Came home today to find that my father-in-law had installed a Larsen trap in the garden with a live magpie in it. My wife was horrified and very upset. On researching the subject, the predation of songbirds by magpies is not that prevalent so I'm not sure whether they need to be controlled in this manner. I'm vehemently opposed to keeping birds caged up anyway - should we let it out?
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He needs a license for it and the officials will inspect it regularly to ensure it is kept out of draughts, fed and watered. Does he know that? If not, I'd tell him then let it go - I don't like them either but I know a lot of my shooting friends use them, and they are controlled.
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I think it's under the general licence. I'm inclined to get rid of it
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Magpies do predate upon the nests of small birds. We don't have many magpies here but this morning I noticed a pair. Last time we had them they ate all the baby wagtails as they hatched, from several nests, and ripped down any swallows nests within reach. For that I don't like them and I dread their arrival, but they are smart in both senses - clever and good to look at. I wouldn't kill one or keep it in a trap.
I assume the point of the larsen trap is to lure in more magpies and kill them, so it's also their fate your wife will be upset about - I would be too.
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I witnessed a magpie trash a goldfinch nest last year and fly off with the fledglings in turn... :'( Very sad!
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It's not as if magpies are new - they've been killing other birds for millennia - it's the natural order of things. I'd rather give the songbirds better cover rather than kill all the magpies
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I know several farmers that use them up here. One said that he had caught 40 in a few weeks.
Watched a magpie attacking and stealing the eggs from under one of my hens last year .... she was sat under the hedge.
Farmer says that some years there seem to be very high numbers. He disliked them as they took all the baby swallows etc.
Personally I don't like the idea of these traps at all. Can you shoot if you need to control numbers?
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Have any of the sheepy types on here had lambs attacked by magpies?
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We have Soay .... small primitives .... but no trouble from magpies so far.
Never heard neighbouring sheep farmers complain of trouble from magpies .... only ravens and crows.
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If it is in your garden and you don't like it ask your father in law to remove it. If it is in his garden leave it alone he isn't doing anything wrong as long as the call bird is fed watered and has shelter.
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You need a special licence for a Larsen Trap, etch one is given a number, and I think they can be randomly inspected
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You need a special licence for a Larsen Trap, etch one is given a number, and I think they can be randomly inspected
Don't think that's true but would be willing to learn otherwise
http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/Images/wml-gl06_tcm6-24151.pdf (http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/Images/wml-gl06_tcm6-24151.pdf)
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It's very nearly true, but for clarification:
You need a general license (which in effect everybody already has). However, you do have to register the trap with the police and get a number for it. You then put a notice on it that says something like "this is a legal trap, license number #12345. If you suspect it is being used illegally, please contact....." (the text to use is on the BASC website). You also have certain obligations to adhere to, such as the size of trap, and must ensure the call bird has food and water at all times, and is checked I think twice daily.
The police can come and inspect, but in reality they have bigger fish to fry unless they receive a complaint. (The best way to avoid this of course is to keep the trap out of view of passers by, and to make sure you absolutely obey all the rules).
Now, having said all that, I haven't used our trap for a couple of years now (it was only ever a last resort). We had a major problem with magpies when we moved in here, but having reduced the excess of population, everything seems ok just now, and there are definitely more of the wee birds about.
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Thats very good information Womble & makes a lot of sense to abide by it.
The magpies rule the skies on our allotments - sometimes 20 or more can be seen flying about. I am sure they are responsible for some crop damage - its not only the pigeons.
There are hardly any other birds about ( except crows and pigeons)
Lovely birds but a flippin nuisance.
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how bizarre.
I don't think iv understood this properly - is he using a live magpie to catch other magpies? if so do they eat etc under stress of confinement?
personally I like to see them as they are beautiful, we have a bend in our drive that we call magpie corner as that's where we see them. its next to our neighbours sheep but iv never known of any trouble.
in Australia I was attacked by a nesting magpie, they are huge there with huge beaks and he/she bit my nose and ffs it really really hurt. the council took him away to rerelease(?) as he/she went for any humans that walked near the nest
never had a magpie come close to me in the uk though.
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Thats very funny shygirl and now this song is in my head.
All sing together....
One for sorrow, two for gold, three for the one that bit shygirl on the nose...... MAAAAAAAGPIE
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:roflanim: :roflanim: :roflanim: :roflanim:
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If it is in your garden and you don't like it ask your father in law to remove it. If it is in his garden leave it alone he isn't doing anything wrong as long as the call bird is fed watered and has shelter.
It's our garden - we all live here...
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Build a hide near a tree that is on their regular predation circuit , Shoot one, hang it in a tree, the others come and investigate the hanging one and you can pop them off one at a time ,hang them all up as you shoot them, bloody vermin, I once had 17 of them in 2 hours using this method.
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Build a hide near a tree that is on their regular predation circuit , Shoot one, hang it in a tree, the others come and investigate the hanging one and you can pop them off one at a time ,hang them all up as you shoot them, bloody vermin, I once had 17 of them in 2 hours using this method.
Bloody hell, that's good shooting - what were you using? I'm not opposed to killing them, per se, it's the fact that there is a live one in a cage - got very distressed when the dogs took an interest
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Just an o/u Baikal 12 bore, just hang them out like xmas decorations, the natural curiosity brings them in one at a time .
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From what I understand about research into natural populations and predation I would like to add the following.
If you start in spring with a cock and hen of any bird you need to end up with another pair in a year's time in order to say the population is stable. If they produce two broods each of 10 young then you can tolerate the loss of 20 individuals to all causes (magpies, cold, starvation, disease). If you remove magpies you allow many more youngsters get to autumn. In most species you then find they suffer major losses due to cold/starvation. So from the scientists' viewpoint removing magpies has no impact on the population. But from the onlookers viewpoint they have a garden full of wee birds all summer.
I realise OP that I haven't helped you with regard to your father in law but I thought the point needed to be made.
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We have more than our fair share here…they seem to have been on a mission to boost their population…
the songbirds have defiantly gone down in numbers…. I shoot as many as i can when out in the fields,but sadly its not possible to do this in the town…
and yes, the larsen trap will attract many magpies..they think the trap bird has food…thats why you will often see a few around a roadkill …
it does pay to keep the trapped bird healthy..so he calls in the others
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Just to clarify the legality and use of Larsen traps, I can do no better than recommend the following handout from The Game & Wildlife Conservation Trust:-
http://www.gwct.org.uk/media/372992/Larsen-use-guidelines-2014.pdf (http://www.gwct.org.uk/media/372992/Larsen-use-guidelines-2014.pdf)
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Just to clarify the legality and use of Larsen traps, I can do no better than recommend the following handout from The Game & Wildlife Conservation Trust:-
http://www.gwct.org.uk/media/372992/Larsen-use-guidelines-2014.pdf (http://www.gwct.org.uk/media/372992/Larsen-use-guidelines-2014.pdf)
Thank you midtown - that was extremely useful. I found the details of the life and social set-up of magpies to be fascinating.
I am also interested in the fact that sometimes birds are released alive. Where are they taken? Won't they just fly back home?
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Magpies are on the general licence as vermin/ pests and are on it so those with the required paperwork can legally try and control them .
The magpie is the most successful predatory bird we have in the UK , it is thought that they kill off millions of other birds ..more than even our, " delightful, lovely ,fluffy , furry or cuddly" cats kill .
It's not unusual to see pairs of magpies flying the hedge lines looking for birds to fly out or see that ," beautiful" bird watching a hedge /bush from a tree looking for where the nesting birds are coming from or going to .
They have their young hatch a few days after most of the smaller birds , so find the small birds chicks and " bubbed " eggs a useful source of food for their own chicks.
Magpies are apparently on par with squirrels for nicking eggs and chicks.
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do you think i could get away with using one on a housing estate...
my pain in the arse freaky weird neighbour actually encourages them into the area and they scare my kids!!!
he scatters catfood on his front lawn for them and the bloody huge seagulls which are possibly even more intimidating!!!
every neighbour in the street has asked him to stop and he says they're nice to look at...
a trap in my front garden would maybe get the message across!!!
not sure my other neighbours would be 100% behind the plan, but it is tempting!!!
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The large number of Magpies is yet another example of a Government legislating blindly to catch votes. I can remember mid-80's when the killing of magpies was outlawed. Up to that point very few were seen. Only two years later and the countryside was inundated with them and the wild bird population had plummeted. The Government reversed the decision but it was too late. Hundreds of years of countryside management had been irreversibly ruined.
I used to kill them at every opportunity. They killed all the baby birds in the garden and even attacked our bantams. I wish I had used a Larsen trap as they are extremely effective. Being territorial, magpies will attack an intruder, so your bait bird should come from another area for best effect. They very quickly become tame and ineffective so the bait bird should be replaced regularly. Shooting them with an air rifle is only simple when they are young and inexperienced, as their eyesight is phenomenal and they can spot you 50 yards away, well out of range.
I hated the noise they made as well. Haven't seen one in this region of France. Suppose the Buzzards have eaten them!
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I have a pair that may be nice to look at but get on my nerves. They are a right pain, taking young birds but so far have not got any of young chickens. Mother hen keeps them safe. We have 2 cats so magpie's know this and are wary. Although they do skirt around our place my brothers thinks at some point the cats maybe killed their young. Birds of the crow family never forget danger, he says.