The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: JMB on January 09, 2014, 07:37:01 pm
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Hello xxx
We have always heptavac'd our sheep but all the literature talks about doing this with ewes pre-lambing.
We are not lambing this year, but was just going to carry on with it anyway. Is this a good idea?
Also, we have a new flock member, a wether, who is just a pet.
I don't think he has ever had any heptavac, in which case he'd need the 2 injections.
Should we be doing him too?
And if yes, should it be now, in the winter months?
Thank you.
Joanne xxxxx
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Personally, I would carry on with it as if they were lambing, ie give them their booster a year after they had it last.
The wether will need two jags 4-6 weeks apart to get him on the programme, so depending on how many ewes you have, I'd give him the first one with the ewes and a second one 4 weeks later from any that you have left.
You're not really supposed to do that but if you use one needle to draw off and keep the bottle in the fridge, sealed with tinfoil for 4 weeks, you'll probably be OK.
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Personally for the sake of 20 quid for the small bottle I wouldn't risk saving a jab for the wether. It's a live vaccine and you would waste more if it doesnt work and you either loose the animal or have to re jab him twice
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Thanks for your advice.
I wasn't sure if I needed to do him sooner rather than later, or if I was ok to wait till Spring.
I'll bite the bullet and buy 2 lots of medicine.
Not worth the potential heartbreak and vet bills
Thanks again
Joanne xxxx
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I don't heptavac and have never needed to.
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I don't heptavac and have never needed to.
Same experience here ---until last year
Due (I think) to a few wet years and a build up of clostridia in the soil I have had problems with pulpy kidney on two farms so I am planning to vaccinate at these sites
Otherwise over the last 20 years I have not vaccinated for anything and have suffered minimal losses
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I always Heptavac everything and have successfully kept it in the fridge to do second doses. Obviously it is impossible to tell if vaccine is still ok but I have had no losses. The other thing is unless everyone keeps a thermometer in their fridge you can't guarantee you are keeping new bottle at the correct temperature.
If only a few to do later, I draw off doses in syringes and keep in fridge. I use a gun to administer as much quicker if you have a dozen or more.
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I regard vaccination as bit like insurance - you don't want it until you need it and then it's too late. I give a big sigh and accept the cost - if I lost lambs to pulpy kidney or black disease or something similar I'd be kicking myself with a size 12 farm safety Wellington boot.
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I always Heptavac everything and have successfully kept it in the fridge to do second doses. Obviously it is impossible to tell if vaccine is still ok but I have had no losses.
What's the point then?
(I don't mean to come across as confrontational! ;D )
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I havent yet heptavac'd anything, I suppose I should but I still have no idea of when to start, how often, what times of the year to do it or anything! would have to ask someone for thier flock plan or something and do it from this lambing time
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I just do the in lamb ewes, as it gives both the ewe and lamb some protection and at a time when both are extra susceptible to all sorts of nasties.
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How long before lambing do you do them? and what if lambing is spread out over 3 weeks, then would you do them all at different times?
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We always heptavac simply because the vast majority advise it and we dont want to take the risk. Most decisions re treating our livestock and pets we make on the balance of advice and how prepared we are to take a particular chance. We have always reluctantly bought thegsecond bottle of heptavac sometimes to only jag 3 sheep. However spoke to vet last night who I have a lot of time for and he was of the mind that the only real risk is from contamination and advised drawing off what we'll need for the second jag first and storing in fridge before going near the sheep. At our level 20 quid plus bottle makes alot of difference whrn you throw over 20 doses away so I'm happy to take his advice. He's always done us right before so his view is good enough for me
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We do ours four weeks before the first one is due to lamb. Yes - it means that the late conception ewes may have less antibody in their colostrum but since I don't know the exact conception dates (we send ours away to a tup) and the instructions say four to six weeks we just go on the basis of the first conception date (which we do know) and then there's a two week window.
I tend to leave doing the lambs until the youngest one is at least three weeks old because prior to that age their immune systems won't be mature enough to optimise the vaccine….. and anyway it is likely that with the pre-lambing vaccine routine, the older ones will have had the optimum antibody in the colostrum and therefore be better able to wait a little longer.
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Personally for the sake of 20 quid for the small bottle I wouldn't risk saving a jab for the wether. It's a live vaccine and you would waste more if it doesnt work and you either loose the animal or have to re jab him twice
Individual choice how or if you vaccinate , I believe it is a dead vaccine ? "formalin killed cells " . Before vaccinations became the norm ive seen deaths from pulpy kidney / lamb dysentery /pasturella some times in large numbers , so i'll keep vaccinating :raining:
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I regard vaccination as bit like insurance - you don't want it until you need it and then it's too late. I give a big sigh and accept the cost - if I lost lambs to pulpy kidney or black disease or something similar I'd be kicking myself with a size 12 farm safety Wellington boot.
this
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this what?
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Sorry, SQ, it's shorthand for 'I agree with every word of what this poster wrote, couldn't have put it better myself.'
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Oh RIGHT ;D ;D That makes sense……sorry :dunce:
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We have always reluctantly bought the second bottle of heptavac sometimes to only jag 3 sheep. However spoke to vet last night who I have a lot of time for and he was of the mind that the only real risk is from contamination and advised drawing off what we'll need for the second jag first and storing in fridge before going near the sheep. At our level 20 quid plus bottle makes a lot of difference when you throw over 20 doses away so I'm happy to take his advice.
This sounds like very good advice to me and I will follow it in future. I use Covexin instead of Heptavac and have at times kept some in the fridge for a second jab or for a few beasts that had not been gathered with the rest. The vaccine appears to have worked effectively when I have done this. And there is no doubt in my mind that they need the 7 in 1 - in my experience sheep here which are not vaccinated have a very high risk of contracting tetanus or braxy in late summer/autumn.
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We don't keep it either but I know folk do. We have shared bottles with other local smallholders and co-ordinated our vaccination times. Compared to the potential vet bill and the stress of a sick / dead animal, £20 is worth it.
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I use bravoxin now - its cheaper than heptavac and I believe that the 'P' part of heptavac doesn't last very long anyway (couple months).
I do the annual booster, but not the one 4-6 weeks after the first. This stems from a discussion with an immunologist I had ages ago who reckons that animals who don't take up a vaccine first time round are unlikely to do so in numbers worth noting a second time.
The only point of that booster is if the animals are in some way compromised the first time.
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I use bravoxin now - its cheaper than heptavac and I believe that the 'P' part of heptavac doesn't last very long anyway (couple months).
I do the annual booster, but not the one 4-6 weeks after the first. This stems from a discussion with an immunologist I had ages ago who reckons that animals who don't take up a vaccine first time round are unlikely to do so in numbers worth noting a second time.
The only point of that booster is if the animals are in some way compromised the first time.
As a vet, I've also studied immunology. The reason many vaccines start with two doses at a gap like this (2-6 weeks depending on the vaccine) is that the body creates a certain amount of immune response to the first dose of the course, but this is small and short lived (so will only cover for a matter of weeks rather than a full year). The second dose, because the immune system has been primed, is a much larger immune response, which will then last til the following year, hence the yearly boosters thereafter.
With heptavac (and many other vaccines with this schedule) the two doses 4-6 weeks apart are necessary for animals that have not received this vaccine before, but thereafter only yearly boosters are required.
The vaccine manufacturers have to go through rigorous testing programmes to make sure that the majority of animals will create a satisfactory immune response to the vaccine schedule they advise, and that it lasts as long as they say they do in most animals.
Please make sure you follow the vaccine manufacturers' recommendations about starting vaccine courses in animals, as if you don't the animals could still be at risk, and you will have no comeback from the manufacturers, who are very good at checking out if their vaccines aren't working (providing they've been used correctly).
I have also heard from an older, vastly experienced vet that keeping the second doses in the fridge, providing the first dose was drawn off with a sterile needle, and the rest of the bottle is stored in the fridge, will tend to be effective, so for those with few animals this does make sense.
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I agree with the above! Why ? If I don't ill geta kicking!!!