The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Pets & Working Animals => Dogs => Topic started by: Kitchen Cottage on January 05, 2014, 11:24:07 am
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:excited: :excited: :excited: She is 3 and a half and had one, unplanned, litter but I would really like to mate her with another working cocker down the road... both have LOVELY temperaments and, following Freddie's demise, its made me realise I want a mini me misty.
She is orf to get some man love tomorrow !
She had 6 live puppies last time and I still know where they all are :excited: :excited:
Cross your fingers that she takes!!
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Hope you've done the health checks for Cockers on both of them! Check the KC lists - eyes, kidneys, and liver
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/media/9846/abshealthreqs.pdf (http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/media/9846/abshealthreqs.pdf)
Spaniel (Cocker) 1) Eye Testing - Annual 2) DNA test - prcd-PRA 1) Hip scoring 2) Eye Testing - Gonioscopy
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im speechless :innocent:
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Misty has had her healthcheck last time she whelped. She was very healthy ;D
I doubt if Jacob has, he's a farm working cocker but I know his parents and he is a really good little dog.
I have homes for any size of potential litter already. Misty is a VERY good dog in terms of temperament and working ability.
:excited: :excited:
I regretted Fred having sired a litter because he was soooo lovely, but I had him neutered quite young. I don't want to make the same mistake with Misty. I want a mini-Misty for the future.
Humblepie... thank you for the silence ;)
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Very pleased you had her eyes and kidneys checked last time. :bouquet: I have met a number of very sad puppy owners who lost their dogs to inherited disease far too young. Good luck with the planned litter. :fc:
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A Health check isnt the same as a DNA test for PRA, FN & glaucoma...hips are also important, all horrible inherited conditions prevalent in show & working cockers.
We had a litter from our show cocker using a fully tested stud so the pups would not suffer from the horrible conditions. Using an untested stud & bitch you have the potential for blind pups at birth/ down the line, kidney & hip problems.
I'm sure it's to late but this is a good working cocker site for anyone reading looking into breeding their working cocker http://www.workingcockerhealthscreendirectory.com/ (http://www.workingcockerhealthscreendirectory.com/)
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She had her hips done but not the rest. I can trace her back 7 generations (she was bred by a friend in Ireland) so I am not worried. Should I be? I only had her hips done because she bred accidentally with a Labrador and I was worried about hips (he had a really low hip score).
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This page gives a good over view of the tests http://www.workingcockerhealthscreendirectory.com/healthissues.htm (http://www.workingcockerhealthscreendirectory.com/healthissues.htm)
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She had her hips done but not the rest. I can trace her back 7 generations (she was bred by a friend in Ireland) so I am not worried. Should I be? I only had her hips done because she bred accidentally with a Labrador and I was worried about hips (he had a really low hip score).
If you don't want new owners coming back to you with sick pups, yes. It is always wise to have the recommended tests done. Why not wait till her next season and use the next six months to have those tests done? A really low hip score is good! They should be as close to zero as possible. My three are well below our breed average of 18 (7,7,and 14) Knowing the breeding behind your own bitch is certainly a very good thing, but have her ancestors all been cleared of the eye and kidney problems that Cockers are prone to? How can you tell - do you know all the progeny for those 7 generations?
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That's a plan Doganjo....Since I had Freddie put to sleep I can't bear the thought that with another lovely dog I won't have projeny. Freddie was, well, a bit of a jaffa who showed no interest in the female form.... but Misty is such a lovely loving companion I would really love a bitch out of her to carry on her nature.
Will my vet be able to do all these tests? When Misty got pregnant last time (she is very clean so I don't actually notice when she is in season usually and she lived with Freddie who was by then neutered) I paniced and the vet recommended hip scores but nothing else.
I doubt if there is anything in her bloodline (all her relatives live in Sligo in very close communion ;) and she was well bred) but I'm going to take a bit more care with the Sire.
Jacob is lovely and, again, very well bred but both him and Misty are working and not show dogs so I tend to concentrate on temperament.
Ah well, only chooks this time round then!
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Your vet should have all the details of what tests should be done and where - some of the eye tests need a specialist though. My breed only needs hip scores so I'm really not up to scratch, I know labs need eyes done too though so it's quite a normal thing for vets to know about. Take him the list from the KC website and he should be able to guide you - you should be able to trace any of Misty's ancestors which have had tests done from here if you know their correct KC name.
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/services/public/mateselect/test/Default.aspx?utm_source=ABSNewsletterSummer13&utm_medium=P7ElbowsPara5HTRF&utm_campaign=ABSNewsletterSummer13 (http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/services/public/mateselect/test/Default.aspx?utm_source=ABSNewsletterSummer13&utm_medium=P7ElbowsPara5HTRF&utm_campaign=ABSNewsletterSummer13)
The Working Cocker Club link is a good place to start though.
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You're vet probably won't know much about breed specific dna testing, the company used is this one http://www.optigen.com/index.html (http://www.optigen.com/index.html) I think they post out a cheek swab which your vet then carries out the swab & verifies the details. Think it worked out about £400 when we looked in to it.
We chose not to test our girl but used a tested stud (even if our girl was a carrier the pups could be nothing more than a carrier - & not suffer from any of the diseases - unless mated to another carrier or affected - but we endorsed all pups just to be safe, plus thoroughly investigating her line, KC dna result finder etc)
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im speechless :innocent:
me too! had to go back through old posts to make sure that you are the same Kitchen Cottage!
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You're vet probably won't know much about breed specific dna testing, the company used is this one http://www.optigen.com/index.html (http://www.optigen.com/index.html) I think they post out a cheek swab which your vet then carries out the swab & verifies the details. Think it worked out about £400 when we looked in to it.
We chose not to test our girl but used a tested stud (even if our girl was a carrier the pups could be nothing more than a carrier - & not suffer from any of the diseases - unless mated to another carrier or affected - but we endorsed all pups just to be safe, plus thoroughly investigating her line, KC dna result finder etc)
Sounds a excellent compromise to me. :fc:
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I didn't mate her but actually the sire was tested because, when he's a little older, he'll be used quite a lot. Kenny said that it cost hims £75? Given that is a LOT different from £400 can I rely on the results. After another litter (assuming she takes at some point) Misty will be spayed, I really want a Mini Misty.... she is such a lovely dog!.
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You'd need to find out what th test was ;)
For PRA & fn the tests alone are over £300, maybe he's just had his eyes checked for glaucoma!
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In 2011 - health tests - for border collies, annual eye tests (£40) one off gonioscopy (£40) hip score (£130) DNA test for CEA & CL (about £150 each)
Increase these a little to get a more timeous cost. - about £500 altogether if you do all the eye tests as well as hips etc, so £75 goes nowhere near it.
As I have always said if you are doing it properly you cannot make profits on breeding dogs.
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When I had my German Shepherds Fallon went through all her health checks as we thought about breeding a litter. Cannot remember what it cost me but I know it was not cheap. A the end of the day I changed my mind as I was worried what sort of homes the future puppies would end up in. We took on Tanya as a rescue instead. At that time there was a young lab being seen by my vet from tested parents and it had bad hips age 6 months. Must have been a throw back to a dog or bitch that was not tested.
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When I had my German Shepherds Fallon went through all her health checks as we thought about breeding a litter. Cannot remember what it cost me but I know it was not cheap. A the end of the day I changed my mind as I was worried what sort of homes the future puppies would end up in. We took on Tanya as a rescue instead. At that time there was a young lab being seen by my vet from tested parents and it had bad hips age 6 months. Must have been a throw back to a dog or bitch that was not tested.
Quite likely. In order for hips to be consistently low scored or even Zero then all ancestors within a number of generations (7 I think ) must be below a certain level - one paper I read mentioned a crucial figure of 10, but I can't remember why they decided on that number, since teh average varies from breed to breed. There is also an environmental aspect. One bitch I had we got at 14 months and she had been kept in a small run, except for limited exercise for a short time each day. She developed the habit of jumping up and down on her back legs, and although her background was low to medium scored, hers were very high at 58. Dr Willis in formed us that her environment had been the cause, but we took the decision never to breed from her just in case it was a throwback as we found one ancestor 3 generations back hadn't been scored.
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I expect no matter how hard you try to breed the best there will be times that something will turn up. Millions are spent each year breeding racehorses with the hope that there will be that special winner. We all know not every mating gives you that. Breeders can only do the best they can that their puppies are in good health. No one wants to have to put puppies down.