The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Hillview Farm on December 12, 2013, 05:21:05 pm
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Just Wondered what everyones lambing percentage's have been in the past and with what breeds?
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Averages out at about 150%, from 120% on our hardest hill, 150 % on better hill both lairg type cheviots, to 200% in our cheviot x texel x milk sheep ewes. We can no longer get the texel x milk sheep tups and have bought berrichons instead, but just used them last year so no females to the tup until next year. Kerry Hills 150%.
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My Gotland x Shetland were 200% this year. Previous time was 150%.
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My shetlands are 180-190%, although the person we bought our latest ewes off was 200%!!
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With a whole one year of experience, 150% from 4 Castlemilk Moorit ewes.
Regards, Dave
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150-160% from our Shetlands on exposed hill (but parks not moor). Happy with that esp as no interventions or losses and they seem to produce 2/3 ewe lambs!!
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last year 150% with wilts horn- some were first timers. next year planning on 250% ;D
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105% on our fell land (Herdwicks & Swaledales) which is nearly perfect as we only want singles for there. Percentage reaching maturity varies greatly depending on many factors. Last year it was around 90%.
Averaged just below 150% lambs reaching market age on our other pasture with most hoggs having singles and the majority of the mature ewes having twins. Carry a complete range of breeds.
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Do shearlings scan at a lower %?
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How is this being calculated?
Usually it is ewes to the tup/lambs sold or retained
In which case I would do about;
ewe lambs @ 70%
mature ewes @ 160%
This is with no feeding/bringing in/fostering/helping at all
I have done 179% (and 130% or lower) depending on weather/other disasters
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Depends what you mean by lambing %. The most important overall performance indicator is the number of lambs weaned as a % of the number of ewes put to the tup.
But people use "lambing percentage" to mean different things.
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From my Castlemilks and shetlands - mostly first timers we got 150% with a slightly higher number of ewe lambs to ram lambs. Supliment with hay, a wee bit of hard feed and a link - no help need at lambing - weaning % we had one still born
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I understood it as the amount of lambs produced through to weaning.
So it's ewes put to the tup devided by the number of lambs time 100 I do believe
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With my "Heinz 57" Welshies I usually achieve 170 - 190%
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I understood it as the amount of lambs produced through to weaning.
So it's ewes put to the tup devided by the number of lambs time 100 I do believe
Folk use "lambing %" to mean different things - no of live lambs born as a % of ewes lambed for example, but this doesn't account for the number of barren ewes, conception rates, foetal losses, and neonatal lamb losses.
We had 11 ewes to the tup; 9 got in lamb (first time we've had barren ewes), 15 lambs scanned, 15 born live and 15 weaned - so 136% lambs weaned to ewes to the tup, 167% lambs weaned to ewes scanned in lamb. The 136% was a bit disappointing but it was good to not lose any lambs between scanning and weaning.
With small numbers, small changes make more significant differences to %ages.
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we got just over 200% to market this year from 90 mules.
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I think it's a rather loose term and mostly boils down to "horses for courses". No-one would want triplets on high ground. Some use how many lambs born then ignore post-lambing losses .....
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Lambing %age is irrelevant ---what matters is profit
I can achieve 250% but I will loose lots of money doing it
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I would agree with lambs weaned compared to ewes put to the tup. I think this is the most realistic way of working out profit/loss etc.
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I would agree with lambs weaned compared to ewes put to the tup. I think this is the most realistic way of working out profit/loss etc.
Not at all---
If I raise 160% on grass alone I will make more money than raising 200% with indoor lambing/creep feed/feeding ewes overwinter/high vet bills etc
it's the same as getting a high price for a lamb, it's the margin that matters in a business
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Lambing %age is irrelevant ---what matters is profit
I disagree. I think these things are useful indicators of performance between similar units and in single units across years. If your lambing % was 100% on a lowland farm with commercial type ewes, you would have a problem. If % ages indicated higher than average neonatal losses, then you would want to look at your practices in that area.
Of course margins are the most important thing if profit is your motive but it's still useful to know how your flock is performing compared to other similar enterprises.
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I would agree with lambs weaned compared to ewes put to the tup. I think this is the most realistic way of working out profit/loss etc.
Not at all---
If I raise 160% on grass alone I will make more money than raising 200% with indoor lambing/creep feed/feeding ewes overwinter/high vet bills etc
it's the same as getting a high price for a lamb, it's the margin that matters in a business
Yes, I know what you are saying, but I didn't mean to compare, say, my unit to yours, I more meant that for instance I know people who get their scanning percentage fixed in their head and hang on to that, thinking that that is the level at which their sheep are performing, rather than taking into consideration empty sheep, lost lambs etc. etc. which all drain the profit. Maybe I have spent too much time with sheep, but I prefer to think on the black side of figures, then I am not disappointed.
Slightly off topic, but I calculated last week in 2012/13 it cost us £16.20/ewe to the tup to get all of our sheep (including tups, hoggs overwintered etc.) through the year - has anyone else calculated this?
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My COP is £64/lamb ----includes my hours @ £15/hr
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Lambing %age is irrelevant ---what matters is profit
I disagree. I think these things are useful indicators of performance between similar units and in single units across years. If your lambing % was 100% on a lowland farm with commercial type ewes, you would have a problem. If % ages indicated higher than average neonatal losses, then you would want to look at your practices in that area.
Of course margins are the most important thing if profit is your motive but it's still useful to know how your flock is performing compared to other similar enterprises.
Profit is my motive because I have to make a living at it---it's not a game or hobby
Flock performance is very important I agree and I use EID/a good database & BLUP to keep track of it
I can analyse the data to give all sorts of information but none is as important as profit
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Our llanwenogs produced 2 lambs each without trouble or intervention and they were fast growers to 40kg . But one of our GFDs decided to go for four lambs and that by itself stuffed-up the economics by needing two emergency vet call-outs, loads of attention/bottle feeding etc and small slow-growers.
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My children bought lambs from me with their birthday money some years ago so now a fair proportion of the flock is theirs. They take their profit every year but I work out the cost of raising each lamb that gets to weaning and subtract it from the sale price. I include vet costs, wormer, vaccine, disposal of fallen stock, lick buckets, haymaking and feed. I don't include straw because this is shared by all the stock, or capital items like buckets or hayracks, which will last for ages. Last year profit was down because we had to feed the ewes for several weeks after lambing because the grass was so slow to start growing. I don't factor in labour as we work together as a team all year. If one of our hire rams is theirs they get the full amount.
I'm with Tim on profit - if you raise a small number of high quality stock on a small acreage and find the right markets you can make more profit than someone with a lot of stock on a big area.
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- if you raise a small number of high quality stock on a small acreage and find the right markets you can make more profit than someone with a lot of stock on a big area.
I wish it was that simple. This coming year :fc: will be the first time we can even contemplate the possibility of breaking even with sufficient ewes in lamb to cover the costs of the last 3 years. Probably because we fuss our lambing percentage is the same for live birth and finished. If they're born alive they stay alive (so far).but We have ewes who owe us for all the abs and drenches and cake and hay and in one case an emrrgency vet bill from 2 1/2 years ago that she has yet to repay. Her firzt lambs are now In lamb so next dec we might get something back from her. She's a good sheep but at a small scale there is no margin for anything out of the ordinary. It can take years to get it back. It's the main reason that we have for the first time put this year's lambs to the tup. Otherwise it takes too long to start recouping.
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- if you raise a small number of high quality stock on a small acreage and find the right markets you can make more profit than someone with a lot of stock on a big area.
This is the crux of the matter. Farmers are generally terrible marketers ---they rear a crop but then accept the price they are offered either at market or to the abattoir buyers. The trick is to develop a market of your own & add value to your crop
You also need to look at your operation as a business without sentimentality ---if a ewe doesn't perform get rid of her, NO excuses.
If it's a hobby and you can afford to put cash into it then that's a different matter
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averaged 160% this last year which was down from 200% on the previous. didn't mind though as apart from a still born all lambs were healthy and we were caught up In all that snow lol
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With my Shetlands, it's been 175% for the two years I've had them.
With the Rough Fells it was around that too.
I count lambing % as lambs got to weaning / yows put to the tup.
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The discussion about profit is interesting but I think deserves a thread of its own, rather than being buried and woven in amongst the single measure of lambing percentage.
One year I might decide to calculate a lambs reared/sold over ewes put to tup - but it's not easy as we may buy in ewes with lambs, store lambs, and/or in-lamb ewes; we will usually have some lambs still here from last year when we start lambing, etc.
It's hard for us to calculate some of the business measures which would be interesting - for instance, we buy a cake that we feed to both cattle and sheep; some of the meds ditto; hay goes to both too; we spend a fortune on fuel for the quad bike and I bet a large percentage of that could be apportioned to the sheep but of course we check the cattle daily too...
On rearing grass fed lambs vs supplemented lambs, it's not always as straightforward as it seems. You won't put the final 'bloom' on a top-class lamb with grass only, at least you won't up here. So to get the top grades and hence prices you do need to feed a little cake to finish them. And if you can finish them earlier you may get them to market ahead of your neighbours and get better prices. Singles finish much quicker than twins, need very little cake (may even finish off their mothers) and single-bearing mothers need hardly anything - so on our farm at least there's an argument that a good single can be a better outcome than twins.
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Cheviot and cheviot cross ewes to a cheviot tup on very hard hill: a little over 100%. About 10% of ewes have twins although I'd prefer them not to. I try to keep ewe lambs from the tups though I'm not always successful with this.
Average price for lambs this September/October: £25. I'd rather not think about the cost of production and factoring in the cost of my time probably would make me suicidal :'(
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The question is lambing percentage , not rearing or weaning percentage ( all of which can be usefull measurements) from that my definition is the number of lamb measured against ewes tupped from that you can not only measure, as Rosemary says, against others but also adjust your own husbandry on a yearly basis to achieve what is best for your own circumstances and along with the weaning or rearing percentage therefore it can be used to maximise profit whether that's by producing loads of lambs per ewe or just singles depends on what circumstances you have however if you don't actually measure what comes out, then you can't work out what conditioning of the ewe to aim for best results in the first place.