The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Pets & Working Animals => Dogs => Topic started by: Kitchen Cottage on December 11, 2013, 07:29:37 am
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Oh soooo many questions ;)
Through circumstances I have ended up with 2 new dogs at the same time. One is a blind cross breed who has only really lived in a shelter abroad (Luca). The other was supposed to be a blind, old, cat friendly, collie size rescue.... but is really a sighted, young, cat hating, Alsatian sized rescue, history unknown (Yellow).. she is very nervous, won't go outside at all but absolutely adorable.
1. Luca barks all the time mainly because the other dogs brush past him and make him nervous. he is supposed to be a companion dog for Misty (my working cocker) and instead she is nervous now. Will this get better do you think? How long before dogs get to like each other. Never had an issue with her.
The barking is driving me mad.
2. Luca constantly marks my sofa's... meaning I am washing the covers every day and the floor at least 3 times.
3. Yellow is house trained but won't go outside so has found a place in my kitchen where she poos and pees... not ideal. In fact, I got her out last night for a minute and she pee'd which was good.
More importantly, Luca is supposed to be my permanent dog.... and I prefer Yellow ??? I suspect its because she reacts in a different way and I haven't had a blind dog but, after a week.... I don't really like Luca.
What to do? Would it be better if Yellow was fostered elsewhere (she wasn't supposed to be here at the same time)....
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The organisation you are fostering for should support you and be able to answer all your questions.
I do wonder why they would put a blind dog with other dogs which unnerve him .... any good rescue would have tested this first? I had to take the whole family and other dogs to meet my potential rescue before they were happy he would be suitable for us.
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I think you need to give them time - particularly Luca who has come all the way from Bulgaria and spent 2 years of his life shut in a cage. It's no wonder he is feeling nervous and barks a lot given that the environment around him is totally alien and he can't even see it to help him adjust quicker. Saying you don't like him is rather sad - after all it is not the dogs fault he is in this situation. Good luck with them all - I hope that given adequate time things will greatly improve.
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I foster foreign blind and partially sighted rescues, so meeting wouldn't have been realistic.
I have had 30 blind rescues and none have barked like this. He isn't well socialised because he lived in a concrete cell for most of his life.... I wasn't told this, I was told he had lived in a pension for a long time. This is often the case, they will say whatever they need to say to move the dogs on (which is why Yellow became blind I suspect!).
The rescue (which has no facilities other than raising money to bring animals in and rehome) is all volunteers so I'll ring them.
I should say I have fostered over 60 dogs in total and Luca is the most unsocialised. I am concerned that, at 2, some patterns are set
I do feel rotten I don't like him more :( I promise you he doesn't know it and he is getting a lot of cuddles and time spent on him
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A dog behaviorist might be able to help - and please contact the rescue group for help and advice - they should at least have knowledge of where to obtain assistance, and should not leave you to cope alone. And ask them to find another fosterer for Luca. Believe me he will definitely know that you don't like him any more - no matter how you try to hide it!!!!!
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Do you keep your fosters crated or each in a separate area such as under the stairs, utility room, shed! etc? They need their own safe space away form your other dogs, and your dogs need their own space too. In a pack of wild dogs a newcomer would be kept on the fringe for a few weeks whilst they decide if they can join the pack. My current foster is sleeping in my van because its where he feels safe! So you may have to think creatively!
If you don't get back up from the rescue (they may not have the experience themselves!) you are not too far from Barbara Sykes behaviourist in Eldwick. There's nothing she doesn't know about rescues and fostering, she runs Freedom of Spirit rescue for border collies. She does 1 to 1 consults on all breeds though and will def. be able to advise. Good luck!
www.fostbc.org.uk (http://www.fostbc.org.uk)
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crumbs, where to start?
it will be difficult taking on 2 rescues at the same time.
if it was me id be using a crate alot, 1 to help house training, and 2 to give them security. forget about the romantic notion of them running free for the moment, treat them as den animals until they have a good secure routine and they feel safe. especially the blind one, as it must be all really scary for him, marking is normal.
my dogs sleep in the conservatory as a rule unless they are invited into the front room. the conservatory tiled is very easy cleaned so spraying/accidental pooping etc isnt a big deal. they are happy as its normal for them.
i personally wouldnt be putting your dogs straight into a furnished house. things like tables and couches are so tempting to pee on! dogs dont have to live inside the house, maybe a kennel would suit, it may even be better if it gives the blind one time to adjust to the changes in his life.
the best book iv ever read on house-training was written by monks who lived in a posh monastry (and bred dogs) and all puppies were literally tied to the monks (1:1) so they had no chance of running off to hide and pee.
this technique might suit you when you dogs are invited into your house - pop a lead on and tie it to your belt, so where you go - they go. youd also act as a guide for the blind dog and help build a relationship with him.
i think all the behaviour you have described is predictable and to be expected. keep a strict routine, use crates.
i wouldnt be putting a blind unsocialised dog loose amongst other strange dogs - it would be completely scary and alien to him. give him a den and increase his space very gradually. his mindset may be set firmly now if he hasnt been socialised at all. you can only do your best. but think from the dogs perspective, not human one.
put things in order of priority for them - food, water, bed, safety, health then exercise and stimulation. dont think about grassy meadows and freedom - that will come in time.
what im trying to say is - make life easier for yourself and dont feel they need couches and the run of the house because they have had a tough life before- especially it makes you stressed by constantly cleaning up pee and poop.
not all dogs like eachother. my terrier and lhaso apso really dont like eachother and i dont expect that to change. we just have to manage them, or they would be at eachothers throats.
good luck and best wishes :hug:
what part of the country are you in?
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excellent post Shygirl - its what I tried to say but you put it over so well :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Thank you Shygirl and Shep. I have tried to get hold of the rescue but.... they haven't responded (in 5 days).
I've put Luca in the utility room and kept Yellow in (because she is fine) so I will put a dog gate in so Luca can hear me in the kitchen. I have to say, that was a LOT easier last night
Thank you again, that is such good advice and I am glad I asked.
Shep, that behaviourist is 300 miles away, I did ring "Joe the Dog Man" (that's his trading name) who said he had no ideas because his techniques worked on the dogs seeing each other! He needs to come on here. If you don't mind, I suspect I will be back here again ;D
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well done KC glad you had an easier night! - sorry an advert came up at the bottom of your post that mentioned Leeds - so I thought that was where you lived! silly me - I'll get the hang of forums one day ::)
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You are so brave taking on dogs with problems, I just want to add, with any behaviour, human or animal, its all about the environment and the situation, we all would act differently depending on where we are and who we are with and also how we feel, emotionally and physically, I know you will know this but the best option is for some one to come and observe, they do not always have to be such a specialist to see what's happening, a bit of trial and error too. I used to have to observe interactions with children and parents etc. and although I could clearly see what was going on and how to correct it, I could not always apply in my own life......I also have a very good friend who used to manage a large hotel and kept the cleaners on their toes, yet her house was...errrrrrr dirty, anyway you are to be commended on the help you are giving these dogs, poor things, some people place no value on any animal!!!
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You are so brave taking on dogs with problems, I just want to add, with any behaviour, human or animal, its all about the environment and the situation, we all would act differently depending on where we are and who we are with and also how we feel, emotionally and physically, I know you will know this but the best option is for some one to come and observe, they do not always have to be such a specialist to see what's happening, a bit of trial and error too. I used to have to observe interactions with children and parents etc. and although I could clearly see what was going on and how to correct it, I could not always apply in my own life......I also have a very good friend who used to manage a large hotel and kept the cleaners on their toes, yet her house was...errrrrrr dirty, anyway you are to be commended on the help you are giving these dogs, poor things, some people place no value on any animal!!!
definitely agree with this. is there a behaviourist near you? try asking the council as they (in scotland anyway) are promoting responsible dog ownership etc so have a list of dog trainers on their websites (unless aberdeenshire is unique in this ?) your vet will know someone local to you.
caesar milans website is handy.
http://www.cesarsway.com/ (http://www.cesarsway.com/)
we had a home visit last year from a trainer/behavourist when our 9 week old terrier bit my daughter quite badly and in a nasty way- over a bowl of pasta ::)
i was worried about doing the wrong with him, being so young, and having an professional there in your house to just watch helps enormously. stating the obvious - that you, as the owner, are blind to as things are too familiar to you.
the home visit was only £20 but was an enormous help, and i wouldnt describe us a dog amateurs either. everyone is oblivious to their own mistakes - i never realised i was so rough or ham-fisted with a young pup, but apparently i was ...lol. and preventing situations is 99% of the battle. ie - in our case - put the pup in the crate long before he knows pasta is about, and make sure the handler isnt a child. obvious really but sometimes we need telling!
im sure they will be someone near by who can help. positive training is the way to go, clicker training are very good. just use your judgement and if you dont like one instructor - try another.
good luck.
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:thumbsup: , I have Labs that are so very very easy, it's not a dog behaviourist that I need..it's a husband one :innocent:
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Happygolucky, that's my problem, I've always been a gundog girl, spaniels and labs..... they just relax and get on (at least mine have).
I have rung a couple of people but they all claim to be members of different institutions and there are so many "professional bodies" some must be given away with cornflakes, what is the PROPER body for dog behaviourists? I think getting one over is a good idea. Still waiting for the rescue to come back....
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Sounds like There is an opening for dog trainers in the world.
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Personally I'd just keep on one of the two rescues and do the best you can. Sounds like youve got two very needy dogs with very different requirements I imagine it would be very hard to give them both the time, socialisation, training they need independently. They must be very very unsettled and clueless as to what's happened to them. Your also dealing with your current dogs and the effect it will have on them so for me I'd decide on which one suits your current situation the best, the one you think you can work with the best.
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Well Yellow is a very easy dog, except for her fear of the outside which I am working on.
Luca (the blind dog) is in the utility room, I have walked him and taken him out for cuddles.
So the big question is, How do i introduce him? Do I let him out a bit at a time? If its only when he is outside he will be in the utility room a long.
Would someone have some guidance on how I socialise them all together gradually.
There is nowhere for Yellow to go at the moment and she isn't really the problem. She has been clean for 2 days and came outside last night for wee's and poo's by herself :excited:
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try here
www.apdt.co.uk (http://www.apdt.co.uk)
pet dog trainers association seems a safe bet for what you need. try asking them for a contact near you. in my experience they are into positive training etc.
ref introducing the blind one. use a lead - or tie him to your belt - and let him follow you. you are his boss, where you go - he must follow.
you can progress to leaving a long lead (long line) on him trailing against the ground for a long while(weeks or months if need be), so you can grab it if he is going to wee or fight or needs removing quickly from a situation. its much easier to pull his lead than to grab his body, especially as he cant see you. if you get a flat long web lead it trails easily, easily stood on too. parachute cord style ropes tend to tangle so avoid them.
start off with 5 mins then gradually increase the time he is allowed to socialise with the other dogs/or come into the house.
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I integrate with my dogs individually starting with the most social of my dogs and lastly the grumpy old bitch! (usually after a couple of weeks). Its best to do it outside offlead if you like or on a lead walk if you think you need control. Usual times for a scrap to break out is over food or toys, going through narrow passages / doorways, so avoid these things at first.
Do you have a dog who might mentor Luca? One that Luca could trust and could lead him around the garden etc? You might try introducing them first.
Don't worry that Luca is spending lots of time in the utility room if he's calm and secure in there, its better than being insecure in the pack.
The rescue really are bad that they are not supporting you on this - but sadly it happens esp with the ones importing dogs. They can raise lots of money with those appeals for transport help >:( >:( .
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Please don't in any way believe that the rescue are misusing any funds. It is run by veterinary nurses and is tiny. It raises money per dog, no one gets a wage, no one drinks champagne, its people spending their own time to help. Because of that there are a lot of calls on their free time.
Separating Luca has been so good, I take him out but give him quality time and if it gets stressful move him back. That has got to be better for him. I now feel guilty about saying I didn't like him.... I expected too much, the other blind dogs have been blinded and socialised, he was born blind and put in a shelter in Bulgaria. He was rescued from there because their policy is to release neutered at 6 months, starvation, cars, and people provide an attrition rate that is staggering >:( He has only been in a house/kennel for less than 3 months and has done wonderfully. We are going to spend more quality time together and get to know each other more slowly.
Which leads to another issues, which relates to Luca and his marking and Freddie, with his 19 year old incontinence. Any views on belly bands, bands that wrap around the stomach and penis and you put a tena in them. I do 4 washes a day for fred, which is 2 soft dog beds, and Luca's marking means the sofa cover and throw has been off 3 times. They would certainly help me, is there anything against them. For Luca I am only thinking about when he is out in the living room, for Fred, all the time when I am at work.
:bouquet:You have helped me so much, I cannot thank you enough
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my gsd is incontinent sometimes due to spaying at 5 yrs old. that's why she sleeps in the conservatory. she drips while she walks and leaks whilst asleep. she doesnt realise - before that she was in the house 24/7.
iv never heard of belly bands but seem a great idea for the boys
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You can certainly get pads for bitches when they are in season (probably in America if not here :innocent:) so I can see that the belly band would work. My boy just gets yelled at if he even looks like he's thinking of lifting his leg in the house :rant: but I can see that isn't feasible with a dog that has just come into your household. But any dog that knows what he is doing i e marking, can and should be reprimanded!
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Sounds hectic! its great what you are doing though :)
We use to foster a few dogs when I was young 14-16 yrs old
On one dog "bob" he lifted his leg everywhere in the house and although Belly bands dont solve the problem of the dog lifting his leg in the house, it definatly sloves the problem of washing the sofa covers 4 times a day (as we were doing with Bob!)
We bought 4 of them off ebay, put a pad in them and placed the belly band around his belly, so instead of concentrating on cleaning the house we could concentrate on the dog and he improved greatly :)
They do stay in place, however the velcro isnt very strong so we used a couple of large safety pins (giant ones) or I suppose you could add buttons to them! :thinking:
We had Bob for a year I think before he was homed in a house with no children :)
I also used the belly bands for a foster jack russel we had, it just helps with the house training as it makes people less angry with the dog and less time on washing :)
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I wonder if that would stop me having to wash the cushions that Allez makes love to? :roflanim: (He hasn't had a wife for a while and his resident one was 'done' a couple of years ago) :innocent:
Have you a link to a website for them? I'm kind of scared to google that :eyelashes:
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something like http://www.equafleece.co.uk/store/dog_shorts.html (http://www.equafleece.co.uk/store/dog_shorts.html) or are those just for bitches? I think that would be good for old Freddie - if only to save you the washing! As Doganjo says tackle the marking with a verbal distraction. I wouldn't wait though, start as you mean to go on.
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Jocobs den on Facebook make mats & blankets for incontinent dogs here's a link for anyone wanting a look https://www.facebook.com/pages/Jacobs-Den/124539527722974?ref=ts&fref=ts (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Jacobs-Den/124539527722974?ref=ts&fref=ts) :)
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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SET-6pcs-Diapers-Dog-Male-Boy-BELLY-BAND-For-Small-Dogs-sz-XXS-XS-S-M-L-/321267684948?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item4acd0bd654 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SET-6pcs-Diapers-Dog-Male-Boy-BELLY-BAND-For-Small-Dogs-sz-XXS-XS-S-M-L-/321267684948?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item4acd0bd654)
These are what I mean :)
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they look really handy. easily made too.
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They are best from www.bellybands.net (http://www.bellybands.net)
I think these are the original :thumbsup:
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Hmmm, don't look too difficult to make! :thinking:
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I'm too mean to buy these... Dogango I found this and I'll make some over Christmas ;D
www.stoneyhollow.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/patterns.pdf (http://www.stoneyhollow.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/patterns.pdf)?
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and this
https://www.pinterest.com/debannlp/sewing-for-dog-rescue/ (https://www.pinterest.com/debannlp/sewing-for-dog-rescue/)
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and this
Brilliant! To be honest my dogs would have these off in seconds, but the dog coats would have saved me £90 as I recently bought them all fleece ones.
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how is the blind one coming along now?
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Sooooo much better Shygirl :bouquet: He is quite relaxed in his bed in the utility and I bring him out for cuddles and put him back when it's too stressful. I finish work tomorrow and then have a day away.... after that its doggy diapers and some quality time with them all ;D I can't thank you all enough for your advice.
Funnily enough, the rescuer just told me he hated being cuddled, not true, he absolutely adores it! I confidently expect to watch at least an hours TV tonight with some Luca cuddles at the same time ;D
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I'm so glad that things seem to be turning the corner :thumbsup:
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it must be a huge learning curve everytime you get a new rescue dog as each one is so unique.
sounds like its all settling down now, well done. :thumbsup: