The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: MiriMaran on August 24, 2009, 08:06:09 pm
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I phoned the Trading Standards people to get some AML2 forms ready for when the pigs go to slaughter. When I told the woman that the pigs were tagged with the previous owner's herd number she said that to go to slaughter they must have my herd number.
So the first question is - is she definitely correct? When I first got the pigs and queried this I was told it was fine!
If its not fine what do I do? Do I remove the tags? I don't want to re-tag the pigs as the tags have caused no end of trouble as they keep bleeding e.t.c. Would I be better off leaving the tags and then slap mark? Help, what do I do.
Maybe I should just phone the abbtoire and check with them. Any advice would be great.
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What did the local office say when the pigs were moved to your holding in the first place?
Check on DERFA website, I cant remember what they told us!
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If the animal is under a year old, then any mark will do, even a spray on the back!!
That's in Scotland though, not too sure of others!!
I would of thought one mark is enough if it's for slaughter!!
Phone the abbatoir, they always know the updated rules!!!
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When I got the pigs they were tagged before they went on the trailer. I posted the AML2 form to Trading Standards. I think I may have asked people on the GOS website for advice.
The any mark wil do for under 1 yrs is OK for moving a pig, but doesn't apply for going to slaughter as far as I know.
I'll try and phone the abbatoir tomorrow to get a clearer idea.
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the pigs need the identification number of the place of birth.
do not re tag them
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This may help.
http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/id-move/pdf/pig-poster.pdf
Either way, slap mark them with your holding number. The carcass must be traceable to you. What point in tracing the breeder if you had the disease (not of course suggesting you would have just making the point).
There is a whole topic on this on River Cottage.
Here ... http://community.rivercottage.net/users/dixie/forums/pigs/viewtopic/topic_id:24923
Confused, you will be, its DEFRA.
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I've just been looking at this myself.
They definitely need your herd number on them, but don't need individual numbers themselves. The abbatoir I use need them to have the metal ear tags with my number.
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Hi MiriMaran
your pigs need to be identified with eartags, a double slapmark or a tatoo with your herdmark if they're going to slaughter. We eartag ours the morning they go to reduce the risk of infection developing. If done correctly they barely even notice they've been done. I'm not sure if you will need to remove the old tags - probably not if it will cause distress to the animals. Your best bet is to ring your local Animal Health Officer at DEFRA as they will give you the correct answer - some abattoir owners tend to misinterpret rules etc so your better off being prepared & telling them you've spoken to DEFRA first - just incase they query it.
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But dont stress it will all go fine.
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OK will ring the Animal Health people tomorrow. Didn't manage to phone the abbatoir as I had horrible children today that wouldn't leave me alone. Anyone want to buy them off me? 2 for the price one 1!!!!!!! In fact I'll pay you!
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The simplest and most recommended method of ID for slaughter is to apply a double slap mark (one on each shoulder)...this confirms your herd number and conforms to traceability requirements...application is quick and relatively painless and the pig doesn't get stressed...the slap tool applies an inked 'tattoo' to the skin, whilst at the same time piercing the flesh sufficiently to 'brand' the pig...this ensures that when the pig is split (all carcasses are cut in two halves) both sides are identifiable as yours.
Slap markers can only be purchased through an approved supplier (we use a company called Fearing and you can order on-line at www.fearing.co.uk).
Hope this helps
farmer
:farmer:
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I phoned DEFRA and the woman said I needed to have my ID on the pigs to go to slaughter so I asked if I needed to use green ink to slap mark since the pigs had black skin. She didn't know so put me on hold to check with her supervisor. She then returned to the phone saying yes to green ink, but that I didn't need to worry since the pigs don't need my ID as they are under 12 months old!!! ??? ::)
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Thats what we do here, if its under a year old then a mark is sufficient, but ours are tagged. Fortunately we dont buy in to fatten up so they only ever have my tag.
Glad you're in the clear, so to speak!!
Enjoy your pigs when they return!!
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Thank you!
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Hi MiriMaran,
sorry to throw a spanner in the works but the DEFRA lady was incorrect (which is worrying). All pigs going to slaughter need to be identified with your herdmark irrespective of their age via a tatoo, slapmarks or an eartag. The 12 months rule relates to movements between holdings. Pigs under 12 months old can be identified with a temporary paint mark when moving between holdings which must last for the duration of the journey. These rules come under the current PRIMO (Pig, Records, Identification and Movement Order) which came into force in April 2007.
Hope this is helpful
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OK thanks for that YorkshireSmallholder I'll give them another call.
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Spt on YorkshireSmallolder...DEFRA woman got it wrong...not surprising though eh!
Slap marking is the solution
Farmer
:farmer:
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Anyone got one I can borrow?!
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No point in borrowing MiniMaran...it has to have YOUR herd number...not expensive, take a look at the website I recommended in an earlier post
farmer
:farmer:
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Just noticed this add on the TAS forum - Pig Equipment, Slap Marker, Pig Board Ideal For The smallholder - www.pigletspenpigshop.appee.co.uk
Hope this helps
farmer
:farmer:
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Thank you
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OK I phoned the AHO in Staffordshire and explained about the conflicting info that I'd been getting and she absolutely swore blind that the breeder's tag is fine for the pigs going to slaughter and said that if any of the bureaucrats question it to give her a call!
So I'm going to listen to her I think and hope for the best. Thanks for everyones advice. Next time we get pigs we will definitely slap mark with OUR herd number!!!
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I thought you had to mark them with YOUR numbr for slaughter, it was my post on river cottage listed above! I rang defra who confirmed it! I bought a slap marking kit for £80 including the ink (green) slapper, and ink pad. If you can get it cheaper in separates dont bother with the ink pad, if you're only doing a few at a time you can use an old toothbrush to ink up the slapper and not use the pad, HTH! Next time you buy weaners insist they come with a temporary paintmark so you dont get unpleasant bleeding from tags! The tag thing is a joke anyway, they have to withstand carcass processing! I've yet to have a pig returned with its tag intact ::) Good luck when are you taking them?
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hi
i would always slap my pigs you can always see you have your own back from slaughter by the slap marks i dont know about other slaughter houses but i have never had an ear back so ear tags would be no use. i do know a lot of people round here to slap on all 4 quarters just to make sure their own pig comes back when cut up its hard to tell.
dont worry about the green or black ink situation saddlebacks kill out white, we always use black ink on ours.
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We are planning to take the pigs for slaughter towards the end of the month. The only problem is its very close to our 5 year olds birthday!
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Mini party sausages then!!
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Where are you taking them, and are they butchered on-site?
Ours are breeders, being Kunes but the piglets we cant sell next year will be sausages, so I'm interested, if you dont mind me asking!
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Good luck. It will all be fine.
LB not sure if its the same over there, but our slaughter house will only take pigs between 90-110 k. Check before taking them.
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Littleblue, I'm taking them to Elliots in Chesterfield and then the carcasses will go to the local farmshop where our neighbour is a butcher. He'll then bring them home to us and he's going to help us butcher them on the kitchen table! He's also ordering sausage casings e.t.c. for us so we get them at trade prices.
Dixie, Harry has already asked us to label all sausages so that he only eats his pigs sausages! Don't know what his friends will think of eating our pigs though!!
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They will not bother, once they have tried them. be prepared for queues of Mother's wanting to buy your sausages once the kids have tried them.
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There's loads of people wanting sausages already - at this rate they'll be none for us!!
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My OH almost cries as they go out of the door.
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;D ;D ;D