The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Pets & Working Animals => Dogs => Topic started by: Ladygrey on November 29, 2013, 05:14:34 pm
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Hi there :wave:
I have never posted on the doggy side of this forum before :)
After a long time of planning and great research into what kind of dog and what lines/pedigrees of breed I am visiting 2 puppies on this sunday, if I feel one of them is right for me I will put down a deposit and then pick up puppy the following weekend :D Im SO SO EXCITED
However after great thought we decided to take on an older puppy not a 10 week old puppy for many reasons, so the puppies I am looking at on sunday are 5 months old
Puppies are apparently lead and house trained, KC registered rough collies, Sire and Dam are both hip scored CEA clear, parents are rough collies from american lines, american lined rough collies are bigger, not such a long coat and (I Think) a much more balanced traditional style collie.
I have no memory of what a puppy is like at 5 months of age?? are they chewy and into everything still? do they have all of thier adult teeth by now? Puppies are supposedly house trained and lead trained, However I have no idea what to expect from a 5 month old puppy!!! I am so excited!! :excited:
Can anyone offer any advice?
Many thanks
Jess
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WOw, something to look forward to and yes, chewy and into anything and everything, they usualy are good at recall at this age but then it all goes a bit pants when they get that little bit older, the teenage years, then back to good again, usualy!!
Watch out for them digging, carpets, plants and soft wood...not all pups are bad but some are.....my pup was born in Aug so 16 weeks and she is pretty good but has removed all my solar light fittings from the garden and loves trimming the trees and plants, she has also collected and destroyed a few slippers/Crocs, and is also very good on the lead. Watch out for toilet accidents but they should be OK, although our pup has a room of her own with the older dogs and sometimes has a poo in a litter tray I put in there.
So yes they are destructive depending on temperament and breed, as ours are working dog strain Labs they tend to get board easily so chew more, just had my new magazine chewed up a min agao!! good luck! and they are soooooo much fun!
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How exciting. Yes, lots of chewing. Put everything portable out of reach i.e. Remote controls, slippers, underwear, socks, tea towels, pens, basically anything the puppy can get their teeth into.
Even though the pups are toilet trained don't be surprised if something is done in the house as the change of home and routine could throw it all out a bit.
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our puppy(now 9/10 month) was/is only distructive when bored so now we leave her with rope toys to play with while she is left untended, also make sure you have a distinctive bed for her as that is great for them to know where their space is and so they can go have time out as well when they are tired, all midge did as a youngster was run riot and sleep she is alot better not though she is a border terrier though. collies are very intelligent as you will know so keep them engaged and thinking and you should be fine :D they sound fab though photos are a must :D
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along the house training thought, let out for pees after meals and when they wake up less likely to have accidents then :)
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Thankyou very much :wave:
I suppose I didnt think about how chewy a puppy may still be at this age :thinking: may have to rearrange a bit in the house!
Will have to get a puppy bed but will only do that after I see how big puppy will be, his dad is pretty big so expecting him to grow well!
Thanks for the tips on house training :) what I may do is sort of start again and for the first few weeks take him out and praise him etc
My current dog Laddie is nearly 9 but still acts like a puppy, so hoping they will settle down after a while and be good freinds :)
I will take lots of photos of puppies and mum and dad to show you all :)
Although here is a link to who dad is anyway :) http://www.wicani.co.uk/robin.htm (http://www.wicani.co.uk/robin.htm)
I got puppy a got a kong already to try and steer him away from Laddie's toys but will probly have to get more than one toy... I have loads of tennis balls lying around!
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Dads stunning and very fluffy!! Cables are also the thing our pups have always gone for......any loose fitting carpet may end up being pulled up. My daughter is having some toilet issues with her pup as she does not always get to see her pup ask to be let out, I say to all new pup/dog owners, limit the area they can free roam in when not watched and hope, unlike me, you do not have a house full of cream carpets....so hate the cleaning battle of muddy paw prints......Our pup loves the coal and every night she puts her toys infront of the open fire, its so cute!! I have lost a few leads and collars as well.....that's been my fault leaving them around, one thing that I did not think of was some one left tablets in their dog walking coat and their pup got hold of them...it was OK but that's something I often have in my pockets due to back pain....any tablets need putting out the way and food that's not ment for them!!! Like children and toddlers, you need to be a step ahead but we all continue to have them and why not? love having a pup around!!
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Thankyou :)
Ithink I have alot to sort out :thinking: my house is very tiny... but tonnes of outdoor space and I am outside for a good few hours a day with my dog, so I think the puppy could be restricted to the whole of downstairs (which is one big room) when left on his own (with other dog)
I dont have a sofa or telly so thats a coupld of things left to destroy :D
I am away at most from 9 am to lunch time 2 days a week, rest of the week I am out for around 1-2 hours in the morning, I will have to think of what to do with the broadband cable :thinking:
On weekends when I may go to my parents its a big old farmhouse with 4 dogs so they arent going to notice one or two extra :)
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Thats also so cute how your dog arranges her toys by the fire :)
My carpets are a dark muddy brown colour and fortunatly not much shows up, my current dog will walk in the door, stand on the door matt and not move an inch until I have dried his feet, its great in the winter but when his feet are dry in the summer, I often will walk off and forget that he is waiting, I then have to go back and make a big show of pretending to dry his feet for him before he will walk off the matt!! :roflanim:
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If you leave a pup that age for 4 hours you run the risk of a lot of damage. Use a cage.
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The puppy will only be left for that long from mid january so closer to 7 months of age,
this will be after he has lived with us for a while,
I was going to get a neighbor to look in on them at first on the day I am away for long but yes I do have a nice dog crate to use if puppy would be better off crated :)
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ooo exciting time - new puppy! Not had much to do with rough collies - the only one I know is extremely nervous. What is the temperament like in this line?
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An exciting weekend with lots of planning :excited:
At 5 months they are still silly. Probably not mature until nearer 18 months. I'd expect mischief until then and the possibility of chewing things. The large canine teeth are still coming through at 6months and back teeth at 9ish months so lots of teething to come still.
Agree with Doganjo re cage. I shut my dogs in when they are alone until they are 18mth-2 years and more trustworthy.
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temperament in this line is very confident and very active, they are bred to be able to work even if they arent going to be used for working and they are chosen for a happy and forward going temperament :)
I know of a few rough collies and some are nervous, some are just reserved and some are bonkers!
My dog (shetland sheepdog) is reserved but nervous of men or people with hats on..
I never had to crate my current dog, and I suppose I feel bad about crating a puppy :s I have a few crates back home of various sizes so could use a big one if I had to
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All our pups/dogs have magically improved and not chewed another thing when they reach 18mths...so a while to go!! I would recommend a cage if you go out too!!! Put a special treat in the cage just for the pup and that way they know they get something nice in the cage!!
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Ok thankyou, maybe I could use a kong with food inside?
My last dog was never like an ordinary puppy at all, he didnt chew apart from the first month, he was house trained in 5 days and acted like a grown up dog after 6 months old, he would never ever play with or touch a kong or any "chew" toy and would sleep all night on the end of my bed without stirring,
so I suppose I just must not expect my next puppy to be the same even though the breeds are very similar :)
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Thoroughly recommend a crate ..... put Kong in with puppy to keep it amused. Leaving it with run of down stairs of house for even a few minutes will probably lead to disaster.................. my one year old is at this moment chewing a large log by my feet and trying to get me to play too! She is crated at night and occasionally in the day if I am to be out for a period (my chairs have many teeth marks!) My previous dog chewed everything, opened doors got upstairs and trashed my daughters bedroom (curtains included) before I bought a crate ..... he took to it like a new home and as he grew out of having to be confined still 'hid' in it when he had done something he knew he shouldn't!
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Kongs are excellent except for breeds with very strong jaws - they can annihilate them :roflanim: It should be fine for your pup.
You are right, all pups are different and this one will have it's own personality. You are putting a lot of thought into this and that is very commendable.
If you have a nice big cage that will give the pup some freedom to move around - or if you have plenty of space could you perhaps have a kennel and run outside where both dogs can see what is going on.
Was your other dog an older pup when you got him too? At 5 months soem of his traits will be established, so you will need to work hard on bonding with you.
He's a lucky pup I think :excited: - have fun with him.
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we got our lab at 4 mths old, he bonded instantly.
definitely watch cables, my gsd ate through my pc cable, and my laptop cable is half chewed. even the kitten has chewed through the mobile phone cable...lol.
is there a reason why you didnt want a younger pup? just curious.
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Ok well seeing as practically everyone here is recommending a crate then that may be what I end up using :)
My other dog was about 2 and half months old when I got him at the age of 14, however from the age of 13 we used to have many foster dogs in our house and I have had the experience of breeding 2 litters of puppies with my mum and her dogs, however these were shih tzus and I cant really relate them at all to many other breeds...
I wanted an older puppy as I thought that if would be more unfair to leave a younger puppy for a few hours of the day rather than when puppy is 7 months old.
This puppy will have someone with him constantly from when we pick him up untill mid january, my current dog is left alone for a few hours of the day in my little house, however it was either the way it is now or to be left with my parents and thier dogs.
I worked full time on a dairy farm solid for nearly two years, I came home at night when it wasnt harvest time, but during the day my dog ballooned from 10 to 15 kilos and became obese and started showing symptoms of arthritus, this was due to my parents method of feeding thier dogs, they will fill a massive bowl (maybe 2.5 kilo!) with dog kibble and 3 dogs pick off of this throughout the day!!! (the 3 dogs were my dog, a sheltie cross kelpie and a lurcher)
I could not convince my parents to feed the dogs in a different way at all, so when I moved out I took my dog Laddie with me, since leaving mid september, Laddie has gone from just under 15 kilos to 11.2!!
This has just been from 3 good long walks a day as well as running around the sheep everyday and 2 meals a day of a good dog food and the right amount :) he has just 1 more kilo to go before he is at a good weight, andddd.... any evidence of arthritis has vanished!!! and he has come off his medicine! :) he is a completely changed dog! when he is outside he is hyper and runs and runs and runs before needing to pant, he chases squirrels and birds and everything :)
So I know he is home alone for much of the day, but I believe it is farm better for him healthwise!
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I think you and Laddie and the new pup will do just fine :love:
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My two dogs are alone 7-8 hours on Monday and Tuesday's. They are given a good run early in the morning and later evening. I've always been out full days for 20 years of keeping dogs. They learn the pattern. Even on days at home the dogs are kept to their morning and evening walk then settle for the rest of the day. They know no different.
Obviously as young pups they cannot be left that long but by 7-8 months they are relaxed during the day and can hold on for the toilet. It is done gradually from getting the pup home and giving morning and afternoon times in the cage to chew toys and settle for a sleep. At night they stay in it. As young pups they come to work with me but are in the kennel until break times so again are used to not getting contact although people are constantly in the kennel area. By 3 months I'll leave them for an hour or two for shopping etc but they are so used to time out in their cage that they don't care. this time is gradually increased.
The cage becomes their territory and safe haven. Even now the dogs (and cat ) will go to bed in the cage through the day when I'm in. They take their treats in to eat too.
I don't know how I ever coped without it. Your Sheltie sounds a little mr Perfect as a pup :huff: :D
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WHen I clean out ours cages there are all sorts of treasures, usually sticks and bits of rubbish and teddies....although my dogs/pups are often more destructive if they know I am around and not paying them enough attention!!! today I got a solar panel for my fairy lights
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Well thankyou everyone for all of your advice!
Turns out that we brought puppy home with us yesterday :) :) this was very unexpected but we had no idea how calm and chilled he was going to be!
Out of the two puppies, the one we chose "Tully" came straight up to us, laid his head on our laps and stayed with us looking into our eyes for around 1 hour, he curled up at our feet and just wanted to be with us!
I prefered the other puppy looks wise as he was slightly smaller, however other puppy didnt pay us any attention whatsover, even when we went to go talk to him he wasnt interested at all.
So 1 hour car journey home and puppy drooled all over him self so that when we arrived home he was in need of a bath!! (as he STUNK)
Tully walks to heel already, is dead quiet, and so very good in the house! He is like a giant bear :)
He slept all through the night and then wined this morning, I took him out and he made a wee wee :)
Only problem is that I CANNOT get him to go up and down stairs, so at the moment I am carrying him up and down... :p
Also he is scared to walk in and out of doors!! took me ten mins to convince him to walk in a door and then ten mins to walk back out!!
He is such a sweety though and im sure that Tully and Laddie will soon be as thick as thieves :)
My crate is too small for him, so when my BF comes here on friday he will bring my bigger crate from home, in the mean time Im not sure if we need it yet but would be nice to use it anyway.
Im trying to up load some photos right now :)
:)
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(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b316/Duckberry/20131201_144431_zpsd8570ed0.jpg)
Laddie and Tully
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(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b316/Duckberry/IMG_20131202_095856_zps56ebc900.jpg)
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b316/Duckberry/IMG_20131202_094916_zps27d8adc1.jpg)
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:love: :love: :love: :love: :love: , so cuddly looking and very good looking!!!
We got in later on Sat so I was distracted cooking our tea and our pup did 2 wee's on the cream carpet and took the tub of Bicarb off the table and sprinkled it every where.......she then started chewing the table leg!!!!
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Thankyou :) he is lovely and so soft :)
Haha oh dear :roflanim:
The worst he had done so far has chewed my slipper.... that and he simply cannot go through or around a gate or style, and he is a little heavy for me to be carrying over them!
I want to change his food but I was only given 2-3 days worth of his old food anyway... my local pet shop doesnt stock what he is on, so could I switch him straight away or mix the two feeds together at first??
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I always recommend mixing both foods, a little bit of new increasing to mostly new food, depending how sensitive the dogs stomach is and if the foods have similar proportions of ingredients,I know soon feed gives ours the runs, so keep to one hat suits, the better quality is more necessary as they are growing rapidly. our pup is too heavy for me as well and she refused to get out the back of outcry yesterday so I had to send my husband in :roflanim: .......Pups are o entertaining and you can see them learning new things daily
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Ok thankyou I will mix new food in with old food this evening and see what he thinks :)
Also his breeder only feeds the puppies one big pile of kibble in the morning and none the rest of the day? so I have split it into two as 400 grams of kibble in one go seems too much!
He has already figured how to open and close the bin lid... and put his paw on and open the bathroom door! Having a puppy's wooly head appear in the shower this morning was a slight shock!
I love having a puppy around again :love: I think he is the biggest puppy I have ever had! he should mature out at between 25-30kilo, no idea what he weighs at the moment, maybe 14-15, he isnt tooo heavy but his floppiness makes him hard to pick up!!
He is a love though :love:
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He looks gorgeous and so relaxed. :)
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Pups of that age should still be on three meals a day - theri daily requirement split into three parts.
Don't let him climb stairs yet - you'll put his bones all out of alignment.
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Stairs and jumping out of cars are not good at all, although sometimes its hard to avoid if you live in an area where there are lots of steps etc, I try to keep ours well away from stairs anyway!
Not good to have just one big meal, 3 is ideal and that's what I recommend too until they are over a year old, although our pup will not eat much mid day, just a few bits of kibble, I think its due to the older dogs not eating as well, so our pup gets morning feed around 7.30 then evening feed around 5.30 -6...ours eats a lot but I would much rather her eat 3 times but she just refuses....Keep on puppy food until `18mths too!..Bit like a baby or small child, they cannot cope with big meals but need not to have their tummies empty for long (unlike me)
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Three meals a day at that age.
Be warned, speaking from experience here, Rough's can be VERY chewy. Our latest RC pup ate the majority of the surface of a side table a few days ago--and he's eight months old.
Get him used to grooming now, none of this nancying about that some people seem to reccomend, you want him to learn to stand and be groomed out as there is NOTHING worse than a Rough who messes around when being groomed. Being a male, start young with get him confident about being groomed near his tackle-this can be a BIG issue with roughs if they haven't gotten used too it.
Not too much exercise, keep him busy, and be firm. They aren't the lassie everyone seems to think, they are notoriously stubborn as they get older and if not taught manners can become horribly pig headed!
I have a classic shaded sable and white boy, english lines but not the stuffy horrible modern sort--the old fashioned type, and a blue merle old english boy--the pre 1960's style with the shorter coat and lighter body, the type of rough we fail to breed now unless they crop up in litters of smooth collies stillc arrying the genes from when they were bred with roughs (as was the case with my blue merle boy).
He's a lovely pup, seen his litter advertised a while ago I think. Very handsome and all the best.
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how gorgeous. is you other dog a rough collie or a shetland sheepdog?
both look lovely?
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Thanks Sally :) he is just so chilled :)
Stairs and jumping out of cars I wouldnt let him jump in and out of the cars, I dont think he could reach anyway, I will continue carrying him up and down the stairs then until he is older :)
Yup I have so far got him onto 2 meals a day, not sure wether I will increase him to 3 yet, after he is 6 months old will go onto junior jameswellbeloved, at the moment busy weaning him onto puppy, I dont like what he is on (Bakers, no offence to anyone who feeds it).
Thankyou Luke H, will keep an eye out for any impending chewing that may be heading my way :)
He stands still and lets me brush him out everywhere, tween the legs, feet and tummy included, I also bathed and hair dryered him, he fell asleep during both :thumbsup:
Will keep brushing him each day just a little so he stays used to it :)
I am just taking him for gentle strolls at the moment but having to keep my other dog on a lead a little more than usual as he is a rocket and runs everywhere catching everything and puppy doesnt understand, also there isnt much flat land here and I dont want him to go rolling down a hill ::)
I really dont like the modern type collie, they are shaped like a pomeranian and tooooo much hair, down to the ground underneath the belly is not good IMHO
Your collies sounds lovely Luke :)
Shygirl my other dog is a shetland sheepdog but much larger and taller with less coat than a normal "show" type sheltie, he looks like a small rough collie rather than a sheltie and he helps me out with the sheep and goes hunting all day :)
Photo attached is me and laddie, (took ages to take on self timer as Laddie does not sit still.....ever)
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With lovely hair like yours Ladygrey you should be well used to grooming ;D
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haha thankyou :) yeah :D I love grooming the doggies :)
although Laddie only really needs a brush once a week but now I have another one to brush :excited: :love:
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These are mine, the blue is considerably larger now though! Couldn't have any other breed, well maybe a smooth but that's merely semantics! Good Rough's are hard to find, sable boy is from a small show kennel-type hasn't altered since their early dogs in the seventies. Blue boy, as i said, was one of four roughs from a smooth breeder. These pups tend to crop up more than what people realise and they make for the pre 1960's, leggy, slender, coarser coated collies. Very much like the type shown in the original lassie films, high on leg with mainly just the heavy rough n tail feathering.
Your boy is lovely, wait till that adult coat comes though....you'll end up looking more like a rough than he!
(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t229/persillove/CSC_7136-1.jpg) (http://s161.photobucket.com/user/persillove/media/CSC_7136-1.jpg.html)
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Sable boy was half hunched over there as too exciting with the bait of a tennis ball, he's a good sized collie. About 24/5 inches to the shoulder.
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Very pretty!! yup your sable is very "lassie" type with such a lovely face :)
I was told by someone once if you want a good rough wait for a rough from a smooth litter!
Is she then registered as a Rough collie? or kept as a smooth :thinking:
Yup he is going to have a very thick coat! his daddy is very thick, not extremely long, however he is less furry than those photos of him in real life as Im guessing they fluff him up and put hair spray in :thinking:
Daddy is 24 inches to shoulder, around 28kilo I think, Mummy is more english type but also has american lines in her, she is very diddy, must be just under 20 inches to shoulder and maybe 20 kilos
My puppy is from heavy american and swiss lines though so will be rather a chunky chappy!, breeder reckons he will end up looking like his Grandad http://www.americancollie.ch/en/mercury.htm (http://www.americancollie.ch/en/mercury.htm)
Yeah coat will be shed everywhere :) thats why I chose sable, same colour as my carpets :p
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The blue was registered as a smooth, he could be mated to a smooth and would throw 50/50. ANYWHERE else in the world he and his rough siblings would have been registered as roughs, here however it is different despite a rather lengthy petition with numerous quite well respected RC breeders sent to the kennel club campagining for a revision in the rules. Dogs like "Cooper" are really what's needed to try and restore some medience. At a best with dogs like my sable boy "Hunter", other classic collies and american imports we will maintain the seventies type. But the pre 1960's type will never return whilst smooth bred roughs do not rejoin the gene pool
Robin, the sire, is a lovely dog. When he was with Angela Harvey i always admired him, and yes the coat does get a bit puffed up for showing etc (never understand why considering they are meant to be a functional northern herding breed!). Your lad will be lovely i think, he's got a very nice expression. Orionsview wasn't he? They've got a bit of "Lanlin" blood amidst some of their dogs, Lanlin is where my shaded sable Hunter came from.
And you get used to the wool like undercoat covering EVERYTHING
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Beautiful dogs and owners, :love: they say we tend to look like or take after our dogs and their personalities, well I know Labs are pretty easy going and happy and food orientated...that's certainly like me :roflanim:
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all my dogs seem to be nuts. not sure what that means :roflanim: :roflanim:
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and since the birth of our pups, my older dogs appear to be a bit over weight... :innocent:
Think its due to more input and less out put
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Thats very interesting about your smooth!
Of course in USA a collie is a collie, they are the same breed with just two coat varieties (which is correct) I was thinking about that the other day, if a rough coated collie from usa was to be registered here, it would be registered as a Rough collie, even if that means it has smooth parentage :thinking:
Yup Tully is from Orionsview and yup they do have some blood from Lanlin dogs I think
His ears were glued when I got him but the lady took it out, I dont really want to re glue his ears although she said I should, his ears look fine to me though :)
and yes Im pretty sure we all choose breeds that are alike ourselves :) after my friends rough collie I got Laddie the sheltie and I just KNEW that one day I would have another sheltie or a collie, although I think shelties are a bit more hyper than collies.
Here is Tully and Laddie begging whilst I make cupcakes :) (Tullys ears arent really pricked they are just like that as he is looking up)
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Yes a rough from two smooth parents in the US would be registered as a rough therefore when imported would be a rough here! Which weakens the KC's argument--it's all to do with the smooth collie fraternity fearing loosing individual challenge certificates in showing more or less, through that concern they won't pursue the issue of the roughs from smooth parents in case the breed became united as one and they lost individual CC status. Or so i've been told.
I refuse to call him a smooth, he is a rough collie. As were his brothers and sisters, he is CEA clear too which makes it even more frustrating that he can't contribute his genes into the RC pool.
Leave his ears-i think it's daft the gluing and stuff, breeders told me to do it with Cooper my Blue's ears as his are fully pricked, but its all down to teething and i'm noticing they're relaxing more the older he gets.
Yes I think they outcrossed to a Lanlin stud once or twice.
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Thats very interesting :thinking:
So thats how the Inbreeding CO of my pup and some others can be 0% as he probly has smooths in his pedigree somewhere which are not "related" to our Roughs as they are a "different" breed.
I see what you mean about the smooths, I suppose there are less smooths about so then they would be competing against roughs in the ring and more difficult to do well!
Thats a pity that your rough smooth will only ever get to breed to a smooth and then the rough coat would be more and more lost!
Its odd how two coat varieties of the same breed became two different breeds, in many other breeds this is not the case.
I suppose the only thing you could do was buy a rough from here, move to the usa, get them re-registered, breed them together and then bring them back ::)
Thankyou yes I really dont fancy sticking glue in his ears, he already has hair missing from the glue and a rash in both ears, he can do with his ears what he wishes :)
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Its odd how two coat varieties of the same breed became two different breeds, in many other breeds this is not the case
Same with Belgian Shepherds - four coat varieties, four names.
Glad we just have one Brittany, despite having 12 colour varieties; although the American one looks totally different from ours - longer back, longer muzzle, higher on the leg - adapted for open terrain from the original from France. We've kept them the same as the French ones since they came here 30 years ago, mainly because our terrain is similar I guess.
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the australian shetland sheepdogs are very big too, its funny how different countries dogs are different even though they are the same breed.