The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Poultry & Waterfowl => Topic started by: ruralliving on November 27, 2013, 10:00:05 am
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We have chickens, we keep them confined where we want them for their own safety and to prevent damage as they are keen foragers.
There is another small holding at the back of ours which has chickens too. Our properties are separated by quite a deep ditch and each of us has a horse proof fence each side. The problem is that the neighbours keep their chickens right on the boundary and don't contain them. They all come straight through onto our side and have ruined almost an acre of ground with digging and scratching. We have big bare patches and it wasn't worth taking a hay crop this summer.
Does anyone know who's responsibility it is here? Should our neighbours keep their own chickens on their own land? Or is it down to us to fence them out?
We would have to replace the existing fencing with chicken proof fencing, and then put an additional fence line in front of that for the safety of the horses. So it'd cost a bomb and we'd lose grazing space with allowing room to get in between to maintain the chicken proof fence.
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I have no idea whos responsibility it would be as far as the law goes but if it were me I would go and speak to them in the first instance. If they are like minded people they should appreciate the affect they are having on your land and be willing to do something about it.
Have you tried speaking to them?
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I think it should be the neighbours problem but have nothing to justify this.
I too would speak nicely to them as they might be totally unaware. If it comes to it and you need to do something your side I don't think it would be as difficult as you have said. We put some wire fencing along our 4 bar fence line (to keep lambs in) and have found it also keeps the chickens in. It wasn't difficult to do and doesn't alter the fence line.
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would have thought it was up to them. The plastic mesh you can get from B&Q can be used with great affect (and by you I mean them!). Its pretty cheap and can also be extended above the fenceline (ie if they are fliers) easily and cheaply and is safe for horses (I use it to keep my chickens out of my paddock).
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iv heard the saying - you have to fence to keep animals out but putting up a 6 ft fence seems really unfair. you can end up fencing in a whole fenceline as they are not daft and will find a way in if they want to.
a friend of mine had hens free ranging onto a barley field and they had to keep them off the neighbours barley as they were nibbling the young plants away.
i would definitely ask them to keep them off your land (or get a terrier :-J) as i know how destructive hens can be.
legally wise - i dont know.
are you a NFU member - maybe you can get free legal advice from them?
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So you are providing the foraging for their egg production Ruralliving. Sounds like theft, trespass and criminal damage. Do you know anyone with a hungry dog?
Guess you need to talk to them in the first instance. It's a pretty disgraceful situation. They should fence them in but clearly there are advantages at the moment for not doing so. Could you put a nice coop up and get them laying in there?
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March fences are dual responsibility as far as I know, and if both keep stock then it is joint responsibility to keep both sets of stock where they should be, regardless of whether that is in or out of your part.
Most folk will do what they need to secure a new enterprise in livestock terms, but many don't realise what is needed, and nobody will know unless they see it or are informed. Informing is an art, you will find it far easier to upset someone with demands/accusations etc than to get a result politely and collaboratively but the effort in keeping a friendly neighbour is well worthwhile.
I upgrade marches with 3 landowners rather than ask for a contribution because I hate approaching people for money and in the one case where the livestock over the fence truly stress me out (pony mares beside a stallion I keep with a field between him and any of my own mares I don't want bred) it is a matter of peace of mind being worth more than anything else and I put in the mains electric topline. I've had sheep from one of the others get through into my paddock and I called and drove them back before he came down to see, but I had also got a few posts in to fill the gap. I hope if it happened again he'd take his turn as I can't manage the work now so it's a long term thing, cooperation.. :)
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i just remembered, my friend kept his hens behind a 3ft fence by clipping their feathers - it saves increasing the height of the fence.
maybe pretend your stock has the lurgy so they keep them away? :fc:
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...or provide really nice nest boxes in a little hutch for them? :innocent:
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Surely it is the owner of the chickens responsibility to keep them in? Imagine if it was a large animal and REALLY destructive ( pigs come to mind) or dogs getting out and killing things. Farmers don't just let their flocks of sheep run into neighbours fields either.
fencing and boundaries can be tricky, sometimes a boundary fence can be one of the land owners responsibility and not the others but ellied answered that above.
I would go and speak to them, work out what I was going to say first- as someone else said you will have to tread carefully and not put their backs up.
I wouldn't want other animals on my land though, disease can be spread so easily let alone causingdestruction on your land.
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A person is responsible for fencing against their own stock. Have a word with them to sort their fencing, if they don't, ensure the escaped chickens disappear !
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Or as said earlier clip there wings and throw them back over, or get the pot boiling mmmm chicken tonight.
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Thank you all for your replies! We are planning on having a light hearted discussion with them about it in the hope they will contain their chickens. We do have a dog but he's useless as we have obviously trained him not to attack our own chickens!
For the person who suggested wire, horses and wire do not mix!
If talking to them fails to work then yes, we are insured with NFU and for some reason it'd never crossed my mind to call them up and ask. I guess that will be the next plan of action. We have a LOT of rabbits here despite my husband shooting up to 30 a week (they all come from neighbouring plots to - no one seems to deal with their burrows!), the biggest issue with this is that they have chewed through even our wire chicken run before now, so any fence is going to need some maintenance to keep it chicken proof!
I honestly though that living on a small holding would be this wonderful and idyllic life. The reality is that we are at war with the rabbits (and seriously out of pocket with their resulting damage), at war with two of our neighbours already, one up the road wants us to dig up half our front paddock to make a 'sink' for water so HIS house doesn't flood, he won't dig his own ditch on his own land because he doesn't want to waste space! The other is our adjacent neighbour who is trying to sue us over the ditch which separates us. They want to dig it out from OUR side, thus turfing up all our land, want us to take all the soil and pay all the costs - oh and they can MAKE us do it apparently because it's their ditch?! Needless to say this has been going on since April and we've had no legal letter, it appears to be all verbal bullying which we are ignoring. The idea of falling out with another neighbour is almost too much!
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For the person who suggested wire, horses and wire do not mix!
You sound as if you have a lot on your plate already but when I suggested wire I didn't mean strands of wire. Perhaps my name for it is incorrect but we have fencing made of wire attached to the wooden fencing. There were horses here before we moved in and there are currently horses in the next field. No problems with this type of fencing todate.
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I honestly though that living on a small holding would be this wonderful and idyllic life. The reality is that we are at war with the rabbits (and seriously out of pocket with their resulting damage), at war with two of our neighbours already, one up the road wants us to dig up half our front paddock to make a 'sink' for water so HIS house doesn't flood, he won't dig his own ditch on his own land because he doesn't want to waste space! The other is our adjacent neighbour who is trying to sue us over the ditch which separates us. They want to dig it out from OUR side, thus turfing up all our land, want us to take all the soil and pay all the costs - oh and they can MAKE us do it apparently because it's their ditch?! Needless to say this has been going on since April and we've had no legal letter, it appears to be all verbal bullying which we are ignoring. The idea of falling out with another neighbour is almost too much!
you are not the only one with diffcult neighbours :hug:. i never had a difficulty with neighbours until i bought my farm. its seems villagers/townies can do what they want to your field as you have land and they dont. and they also see you in the same light as the council, and expect you to sweep, salt, de-snow / drain eveything for free at a minutes notice.
wev been threatened over allsorts, someone was wanting me to dig a drainage ditch on my land as her garden was flooded, threats went on for years til i finally gave in aslong as she paid for it. but it left me with 20sq less grazing. not thankyou received just completely ignores me til she wants something else doing.
i feel for you :hug:
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We too suffered with this at one point. We tempted the hens into a shed with some corn and put up a notice at the farm entrance, "Found - Stray Hens". The owners had to ask us nicely to get them back, which really stuck in their throats as they were very unpleasant people. The hens also strayed into another neighbour's land but he had a Labrador that specialised in killing chickens and whenever he found a mangled one he'd hook it over their gate catch. We all gave a sigh of relief when they moved.
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You folks haven't got the farmer stylee yet. Neighbours are not a problem. Just deal with it.
Now, if hens are coming on your land and trashing your stuff then the owner has no reason to complain if the hens don't come back. I'm not going to advocate killing and eating perfectly good layers but to me, if it happens more than a couple times then the hens are yours. You can move them on to someone who will take good care of them. They will soon get tired of their precious layers vanishing. In the countryside, possession in a little more than nine tenths.
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Was reading an old poultry book (1918) last week and it referred to this problem as 'trespass with serious consequences for the owner of the birds'. Didn't go any further unfortunately.