The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: Farmerswifey on November 09, 2013, 11:54:48 am
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I'm sure this has been done before but I'm new to the forum and the search function threw up nothing;
What do you on you smallholding/piece of land to pay the bills?
Do you have a regular job and make a little extra from your land or do you make all of your income from the land/farm business?
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I think there is a thread on this somewhere.
Personally we retired early (took a reduced pension), sold up a larger house and bought a smallholding in a less expensive area. I think that is a fairly common operandus modi.
edit: should that be 'modus operandi'?
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We are not exactly smallholders, our farm is 508 acres, but of rough ground. My husband does a lot of contract shedherding, tractor driving, combine driving, fencing etc. etc., and I teach a day and a half per week. I still think we would struggle if it wasn't for our tax credits, which I have absolutely no qualms about claiming, having paid plenty of the stuff when I worked full time. Having said that, if we didn't spend around £300/month on trying to keep us and the children even vaguely warm, we would be an awful lot better off.
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Also, we sell the extra eggs from our hens and this money goes into a jar for treats for our boys - most weeks, we spend some of this on going swimming and I am just about to buy tickets to see the Hairy Mclary stage show with the rest.
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I have 6 chickens
they are a permanent drain on my finances...
my day job is fencing and other outdoorsy projects (but mainly i am house husband and primary carer to 4 children), in 1 month mrs. b will graduate as a social worker, hopefully find a job and soon afterwards we can start a quest for our own patch of land to donate all our spare time and money too...
I want sheep!!!
and chickens (more than 6)
and maybe piggies if i get the right place.... but if not i have a great pork supplier already :excited: :excited: :excited:
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We have 12 acres (about 9 acres grass, plus orchard, veg garden, fruit garden) plus about 10 acres of rented grazing. We have a small flock of Coloured Ryeland sheep (13 to the tup this year and 7 ewe lambs from last year not going to the tup), a small herd of Shetland cattle (two cows and a heifer incalf for May next year, 2 2013 calves (a bullock and a heifer), a 2012 bullock and a 2012 bull, plus 100 laying hens (or not given the time of year ::) ). We fatten a couple of weaner pigs for our consumption.
Our aim is to be at least cost neutral on the smallholding ie get all our food for free (well, free-ish) but at the moment we're investing a lot in infrastructure and we're still building up our flocks / herds. We sell surplus eggs, beef, lamb and a very few veggies (enough to pay for next year's seeds ;) ) but we planted 70 apple trees last year and another 50 go in next year so we'll be selling apples and juice in a couple of years.
We have a small income from the website; we run a few courses and we're part of the team that organises the Scottish Smallholder and Grower Festival - so there's a small income from smallholding related activities. But we couldn't live of this.
Dan works full-time with his brother on price comparison websites. Without that, we'd be broke.
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We did exactly the same as Henchard says above BUT we moved to France.
Our pensions cover utility bills, taxes, 2 cars, wine, cigs, DIY, wine and wine.
BUT - we slipped into a very frugal lifestyle ( even buy cheap wine now). We shop for little as we home kill pigs,rabbits,ducks and chickens as well as having a long growing season for veg.
We exchange things with our neighbours and I keep animal feed costs low by gathering foods from the woods, fields and hedges. We even make our own hay after the council cut the verges on the lanes. It is amazing how much money you can free up when you examine your normal shopping and expenditure.
Oh - we sell some eggs but make enough for just a few bottles of wine.
NB We are not really winOs
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Government and occupational pension allows me to have had my ducks, hens and quail for 10 years, and I play around at growing veg and fruit. Never seem to have a lot of eggs or anything else so I don't really sell any, just use as gifts - only 6 hens and four are oldies that are also pensioners till they pop their clogs. Never counted the cost, regardless of having been a company accountant for almost 40 years. Don't intend to start. i just enjoy doing what i do. I'd have preferred more land in which case I'd probably have had a few sheep.
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OH works down south during the week and I look after the 2 horses, 40 odd sheep, 4 geese, 3 chickens, 2 sheepdogs and 2 pet dogs. I used to work full time in a big tower in Canary Wharf but we worked out that we wouldn't be much worse off this way cos of all the costs down there and also when OHs mum died suddenly it made me just think 'seize the day' as she was the most lively person I knew, so we decided to be a bit mad and go for it!
The sheep pretty much cover their costs as we have plenty of land, they are unreg Shetlands so cheap to buy and need little cosseting, we make our own hay, they just have that and a mineral lick as winter feed. We eat some (boys) and sell surplus ewe lambs and some meat from the boys. The horses on the other hand are a pure cost centre! But a lot cheaper to keep up here neat Aboyne than in Hertfordshire (about a quarter of the cost....
So OHs income keeps the show on the road, mortgage and all. But he gets to come home at the weekend and enjoy it (well sometimes, tomorrow he's bashing in fence posts and today he was putting on a tractor tyre!)
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I have 10 acres, most of which is the Highland pony stud I've run for over 20 years. Initially an expensive hobby when I was working, it now has to pay for itself as far as possible, for which I need 2-3 sales a year and a stud fee or two for the stallion if I can manage it. Selling 1 a year at present which is something of a drain, but I have reduced overall from average 20 ponies to currently 12 of which 1 on loan and 1 sold bar the payment of the balance, I just have a deposit so far..
I have 20 odd hens and sell any eggs I can, which usually about covers their feed costs and gives me a steady diet, along with fruit and veg I grow. The orchard (plums/apples) earned for the first time ever this year through joining the local Orchard Group, but my share was under £60 as most members do it as a hobby and the group wouldn't take all I could have supplied as it was more than the rest and they wanted to be fair to everyone :-\ I am planting more fruit trees/bushes but mostly it's for my own use - I am veggie so the more fruit and veg and eggs I have the better my diet balance and the lower my food bills..
Over and above the holding based stuff I sometimes sell crafts, art, massage therapy, counselling/psychotherapy and any other services I can manage and folk will pay for. I've done basic websites, run workshops, done alternative therapies, all sorts, but most of it is dormant at the mo due to health issues so things are a little tight for now.
My holding was bought on a mortgage when I was working and I overpaid regularly and had an offset savings account too so now I don't earn much I can still cover the minimum payments without difficulty. Everything else is getting honed down further and further, but I haven't broken even in the 3 years I've been living this way tho it is getting closer each year so that's progress ;)
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I have a full-time job (50+ hours) and I smallhold in the evenings and weekends.
I have a house with no equity and a big mortgage (divorce plus banking crash) and about 10 acres of very wet, rough, hilly grazing.
I have 40 Shetland sheep, 4 goats, two of which I milk, about 30 chooks, 20 ducks and 4 geese.
I sell meat from the sheep, drink the goats' milk myself, sometimes sell surplus eggs and give cheese to friends. I've sold some of the Shetland fleeces and sent some to be carded for the first time (I've changed breed in the last couple of years) and I might sell some of the spun yarn.
I don't think I break even, but I like the animals and the land, to counterbalance my stressful office/people job.
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Basically , i don't do money , stepped off the merry go round .
I don't have bills , so don't need money , apart from just a basic amount (£20-£40) to cover things i can't make or grow .
More or less grow my own food , but things do go wrong , but scrape by one way or tuther .
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I run a little soap business - the soap is made using milk from our goats. It pays the goats keep and a nice little profit on top (but has taken 3 years and lots of hard work and ploughing through beaurocratic paperwork type stuff to get here!)
Husband works for NFU mutual so still involved in farming, without his job we'd not be able to keep a smallholding.
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We are changing lifestyles altogether, me or H will have to do 1 or 2 days a week work, whether thats me traveling back to Devon once a week,or find work locally , we aim to grow and rear most of our own food, and i would like to progress my filming idea , which could produce a small income..
at the end of the day, i don't really want to chase the £ i just want enough to get by, and enjoy life
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I run 350ish ewes over 230 odd acres (less in summer). Decent handling kit and dog mean it is a part-time job and pays almost as much as my wife who is a full time secretary.
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I have 30 very rough acres and I hope it will pay for itself eventually, but I don't expect it to support me ATM - I'm a sparky to pay the bills. That said, I do own the place (no mortgage - saved for years in my old job) and I live very frugally - I could give Ebeneezer Scrooge lessons - so I might, one day, be able to live off the holding and just work for 'extras'.
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We have 4 acres and some rented woodland. 8 sows, 2 boars,couple of cows, few sheep and 2 horses. I am very lucky and was able to give up work in my late 40 s, my wife owns a couple of businesses and lets me stay home playing farmer and doing up the house. The pigs make a small profit over the year which I'm allowed to keep as pocket money. :roflanim:
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We are in similar circumstances to MAK. We moved to France for the inherent cheapness, as well as all the other benefits. Making money legally here is nigh impossible. Trading or swapping is allowed though, unlike the UK taxing. The only way on a fixed income to effectively 'make money' is just not to spend it. So we live in an area with low heating costs and cheap Council Tax. Aldi wine and beer is great, so we consume that in modest quantities. Town once a week only saves on fuel. All work on the house is DIY. We are swapping chicken eggs for satellite TV reception at the moment.
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As Chris says making money in France is difficult given tax and NI rules - BUT !
I hear that if you register as a sole trader then you do not have to show any accounts and pay a low tax on any profit. The lady in the office tells me that she has registered 140 Brits from our department as auto entrepeneurs. Why ? - they qualify for full healthcare !!
A good way to pay the bills - register as a picture framer - generate no profit but save on health insurrance.
The French are happy to investigate any overseas bank accounts that they can tax you on but if you receive a UK pension then it makes sense to opt to pay the lower French tax than pay the UK rate. We do after all live here and get nothing out of paying UK tax.
We have no heating bills as my 2 elderley neighbours let me take wood from their woods and their son fires up the tractor to haul it home for me.
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Well iv never had a mortgage dads croft retired when I was 50 live on a holaday village in aviemore whith all the comfats .put all money into the croft onley made money in the last 2 year's nothink this.dad has Parkinson's so I'm having a yeare of to be whith him. When he goes that's it .it will go back to the estate the other half won't leave becouse its took all the money and wares me out. I'm very luckey that I can make eney think metal or wood .I don't think it would be posabul to make on a 60 to 100 acer croft .chickins terkeys geese sheep iv done the lot .The wether and cost to start .The fowl are being sold naw march the sheep etc .A nother is age and illness all the respondabilatey when things go dawn hill .I'll set my kids up whith a house each and that's me done I have 2 adopted girls and 2 boys and they are all eqwal .I do help a lot of unfortunate folk out that have nothink .Hard times
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35 acres, about 30 hens and 8 geese. The croft has been disused for many years so it will take a while to get everything up to speed. When the fencing is done the plan is for an increasing number of cows and probably a couple of pigs.
We both work full time, I work offshore but am finding I am away from home too much to be able to do all that is needed. 35 years to go before I can think about a pension.......................
The croft is currently a big money drain with very little return, hopefully that balance will slowly shift as time goes on. At the moment it is not such a big concern, most other guys get to middle age and blow their savings on fast motorbikes, designer clothes and fancy holidays. Fenceposts, ancient machinery and chicken food are my version of a mid life crisis (although it is more of a childhood dream than a mid life crisis).
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We have 4 acres and some rented woodland. 8 sows, 2 boars,couple of cows, few sheep and 2 horses. I am very lucky and was able to give up work in my late 40 s, my wife owns a couple of businesses and lets me stay home playing farmer and doing up the house. The pigs make a small profit over the year which I'm allowed to keep as pocket money. :roflanim:
I was also lucky enough to marry a laying hen. :innocent:
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Don't really "smallhold" qat the moment. However, having given up working overseas/away in my trained profession, I took a job crewing on tourist boats (er-go seasonal work) near to home. Wife runs our B&B on a (mostly) seasonal basis too. Those two provide enough for our meagre needs. The couple of acres I will start to do a bit more with, as time allows. But this will be mainly to meet our veg/fruit/egg and, to a degree, meat needs. I do admire those who manage to smallhold and live off it :farmer: Hats off to you!
Rgds
Sskye
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Look at your skill sets and see how they can be used or adjusted to doing small holding . I was an electromechanical engineer with an additional qualified trade in industrial electronics servicing repair and construction . I took a city and guilds evening course at brick laying lasting 18 months before we sold up and moved to the smallholding ( It came in very useful ) Alison was a PA to the MD of a company employing 2500 people she was a full RSA quallified shorthand typist , had A level accounts and was a licentiate member if the IPD .
I offer that you are best to diversify into things that do not need a lot of your time or money in one go , keep the things as close together near where you live as possible so you don't waste time and money travelling around.
You have to be 100% organised and have had to have intensely & deeply thought through your systems of operation and committed them to paper . Everything should flow or loop back into the direction of flow.
You also need to know how to do a full financial plan for your enterprise.... leaving nothing out .
We thought we knew enough about finances and business but a six week course of three hrs. every Thursday and home work soon showed we lacked in several areas.
The course was called Option 5 b and came from the EEC because we lived in what they had decided was an unemployment black spot , it was free and had the bonus of doing a pound for pound fund matching providing a bank of their naming had seen out plans, financial forecasts and that we had attended all sessions of the course.
We joined the best bank at the time that would give us a years free banking and all sorts of free assistance , one bit of which was a free Sage accounting package . The Sage was over the top for our needs but after a few hours of messing around with it Alison tailored it for our expected needs.
I also got hold of a freebie early internet days stock breeding programme which allowed me to adjust the date periods as I chose . It was worth its weight in gold as it allowed me to programme matings so that market peak purchasing would coincide with the matured stock sales dates . ( It's no use growing turkeys and them all being ready for the chop in February when you want them off your hands at the beginning of December sort of thing is it? . Our next stage of the small holding was going to be getting a decent incubator for chook , ducks and geese for fattening up ..selling them as fatteners or points of lay over the internet thus keeping our costs down .
Try to do Ice creams and umbrellas type enterprises .. explained as ...sell one when it is nice and hot sell the other when its wet and cold .
This way you can usually spread the effort and costs over a year with income arriving to you all year round .
I grew hundreds & hundreds of laurels , Christmas trees and from cuttings ... made a set of ridges of well manured well rotovated to a fine tilth soil , covered them in 12 foot wide black poly sheet off a roll poked down spade cut slot all along the sides and ends of the beds and the same the hormone treated cuttings in cut in slits every 15 inches apart .
The poly sheet kept the weeds down .. I used Round Up in between the rows .
Did cuttings from hawthorn but found that stratified berries and seeds gave better plants as did stratified seeds from walnut ash , sycamore , oaks beeches etc and sowed them direct on well prepared soil in 4 inch deep rings of plastic 200 mm ribbed drain pipes again these were set in black poly sheets to keep the weeds down .
I used news ads to sell my pants ( eBay was not invented nor was the internet search engies or websites for home owners 0 ..
I suggest that you never sell at an auction .... I'd never ever ever again use one after the first auction I sold batch of 180 plants at.
The auctioneer was very fast and most of the lots of six plants in six inch pots sold for under a fiver .
Found later that the guy buying was related to him & a landscape gardener , it left a nasty taste in my mouth .
We both learnt how to become commercial bee keepers with 50 hives plus and 50 neuc's , used my engineering skills to make all my own national hives as well as being able to sell a few complete Hives and neuc's with bees.
OK it meant I only got 45 p paid for the honey but by the time I'd sold it in bulk instead of jarring , labelling and generally messing around I was far better off as the hives also brought in pollination fees .
For pollination duties
I made eight removable drop side & tail board trailers that would carry four hives with three supers each and a bit of space to spare . Set them up with jacking legs on platforms o f24 x 24 x 2 inch thick ply to take the weight as the bees filled the frames .
made a simple syrup pump to fill the hives which had the crown board made into a 3 " deep crown board feeder .
We also diversified into small mammals by the thousand for the big national pet shop chains . Grew them in near lab conditions in purpose made insulated steel buildings with running water full drains to a septic tank , heating and air con & light controls etc. . made all my own stainless steel cages and fittings etc.
I discovered a local engineering company with a CNC air bed punch machine & folding machines etc. did lots of template making and some simple folding . I purchased a spot welder and folded and spot welded everything else .
In our system designs I'd made provisions for a wash bay so not only did I have to get it all in place before we started things it became a godsend right from the word go . We had two big tanks ( ex 1,00 litre fruit juice paletted tanks ) from which I cut the tops off at the top rail height and filled the cut tube ends with a hard set silicone , one was 3/4 filled with caustic soda ,the other was constructed with a piped drain system to the slurry tank & fitted out with a racking , drainage system to put caustic dipped /soaked things on ready for warm water detergent power washing & draining .
I've noticed so many of my small holder friends are permanently in the muck and struggling because they never gave thought to the system of cleaning ,drainage or dry walkways or any sort of business processes well before they started their small holding enterprise.
That's like a builder putting up a roof on three stilts and trying to dig the foundations after he's just built the walls all before the roof comes tumbling down on his head .
Because the smaller an animal is the more you have to care for it , if you don't want prosecuting or to end up going out of business due to disease etc..
We only gave it all up because of a spinal injury gained at my day job when a chair collapsed under me whilst at my employers premises .
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I only have a garden where I keep my goats and grow fruit and vegetables. I retired two years ago and so have state and occupational pensions, but I do still have a mortgage. I did hope to do more in the garden when I retired but became disabled about the same time and need quite a lot of help/care. I am lucky in that my OH, although totally blind and not interested in things smallholding, is prepared to help me with the goats by carrying buckets, hay, straw, etc and filling feed bins. I pay a lad to clean the goats out and do what I can't in the garden (I have had raised beds built so I can do a lot). Unfortunately, all our savings went on paying for the raised beds and a ramp to get my mobility scooter into the house but we manage by being careful with money.
I would have loved to have had a bit more land and had more animals and had chooks again. Nothing like your own eggs. But have had to accept that I can't do it.
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We too live of our not very huge teachers pensions....couldn't do it in the UK but ground tax is MUCH less over here....and no mortgage so its not too bad
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I retired early from the civil service and now do about 20 weeks across the year as a consultant working in all the broken countries around the world, mostly contracted to the UK government. I'm fortunate that and the pension keep us fine so it will help set up the croft so I can get it to a point where I can run a small business from the croft in a couple of years.
I have a few business ideas in mind and we are building a holiday let on the croft as well.
In true crofting tradition you have to do several things to add up to a living.
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Sadly as much as we would like it otherwise our smallholding efforts are very much a hobby. Fairly all consuming outside of work hours but hobby nonetheless. The aim each year is to try to cover operating costs and have a freezer full of free meat.. I am lucky in that my forage specialist job with mole valley farmers means I spend my life on farms but the poor oh works on another planet in a women's refuge