The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: zoe_emma on November 02, 2013, 09:49:56 am
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We live in a rented house, but the landlord is fine with us doing this.
We have oil fired heating and hot water, and electric fire things in two rooms. With the price of filling the oil tank and electric bills going through the roof we have decided a wood burner would be a good investment. The landlord says the chimney is still there it was just covered up.
How big a job are we looking at, and does anyone have experience of buying online? There is a shop in the local town but it seems very expensive.
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personally i think, unless you have a long term lease, it could work out expensive
you will need to get it fitted by a professional (i would imagine) or else the landlords insurance may become void
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I expect to pay a professional fitter.
We intend to live here for many years to come, the landlord and his family have become friends and want us to stay. We pay the rent on time and they want the house let.
Even if we only stay 5 years the money saved on oil and electric would probably balance out the cost.
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The price of stoves varies a lot; go into your nearest stove centre and seek advice on size, type, materials it's made of (mine is cast iron), chimney flue linings required etc. You can Google as well to give you an idea of price.
My fire cost almost £1000, but there are loads of cheaper ones.(Morso Squirrel
http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/wood_burning_stoves/Morso-Squirrel-Stove.html (http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/wood_burning_stoves/Morso-Squirrel-Stove.html)), and as I have no chimney (house built 1984 ish) I had to have a fire proof wall plate on the fire, and on the actual wall, plus a concrete plinth, and steel twin walled piping from the fire to outside above the roofline) Total cost was £3500 including the fire. Get a quote for installation - again your local showroom shoudl have ball park figures. And remember to get it all signed off
I don't use mine for whole house heating but it's fantastic when it turns cold - has my lounge, hall, kitchen very warm in under half an hour from being lit.
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If you plan on just heating the one room then the cost of fitting and buying a stove is not great. Running radiators off the log burner is more expensive and more of a challenge to fit.
If you are just heating the one room then I would have thought that your main consideration is cost or supply of wood and storrage. Buying in wood can be quite expensive but then again even if you have access to lots of wood -cutting, splitting and moving wood around will keep you very very busy ( and fit ! ;D ).
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I bought a huge ton bag two years ago of kiln dried wood for £110 from my stove supplier - still a third of it left, but I also have branches and logs left over from tree fall last year. If you have free wood, all the better!
I love mine, wouldn't ever go back to the stupid electric thing that was here when i moved in, and certainly not an open fire - all the heat goes up the chimney!
Only problem is you need to leave teh door open on Christmas Eve so Santa can gt in :roflanim:
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Depending on the house we move to, we are going to put in some sort of open fire...all the houses that we could buy are old but have had the fires taken away, they are all insulated very well and will probably far too hot for us but we intend not to have the heating on much of the time. I am confused as I love multi fuel burners but then also love an open fire.......I did fancy a red multi fuel burner! THis time next week we should know and if so, then we will order ASAP.......
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They're not all black. I thought about a green one for here, and looked at red ones for the house I built up north. Just happened to decide on black for both. I would never go back to an open fire - such a waste of fuel and most of the heat goes up the chimney. The automatic cleaning system mean you can see the flames, and they are so much safer than an open fire.
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We have a fire every night and with no heat on, get far too hot within mins, all three houses we are interested in are very small.......I know that log burners tend to throw the heat out more but Steve is adamant on an open fire, we may put a burner in at a later date as the chimney on one house is still fine, just needs some liner and re pointing! I love this sort of look :-
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Some stove shops seem to be hidiously expensive. I spoke to one company in Edinburgh who wanted £200 to look at our existing chimney- before we even discussed stoves and installment.
So I used a small company in ayrshire, bought our stove for around £400. Asked them who they recommended to fit it, they put the fitters in touch with us, and it cost £1800 to fit. So £2200 in total.
Stove was something to this one http://www.woodburningstoveslimited.com/product/country-kiln-37 (http://www.woodburningstoveslimited.com/product/country-kiln-37)
I agree with Annie, an open fire is no use. When the fire isn't lit you just get a draft down the chimney! With the woodburner, if it isn't on, just close all the vents and no drafts into the room.
We did already have a open fire, and the chimney was in great condition, so we only needed a really small flue- just to connect the woodburner into the chimney.
Beth
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We put a very basic log burner in the dining room 20 yrs ago. It was warm but not very economical on wood. Just replaced it with a new multifuel firefox 8 from stoves online.co.uk and a local HETAS engineer installed the flue and fire. It's the best investment we have made. Been in almost 2months. The dining room is centre of the house with stairs going to bedrooms. The stove heats the whole house. Haven't had heating on yet despite frost the last few nights. The house is still warm the next morning. it barely uses any wood and the heat output is fantastic. The stove is half the size of the last one but certainly gives out more heat :sunshine: think it cost £1200 all in all but the hearth was in place and we put the air vent through the wall.
We have a van full of free pallets dropped off by a kitchen installer who had to pay to have them taken away so is over the moon with us taking them. Free wood = free heating. What more could you want ;D
Stovesonline.co.uk have great pages of information about what is needed and regulations. They are very
helpful if you query anything by email or phone and phoned us a few times to check we were ordering the correct items. the only thing was not being able to view the fires so we chose the ones we liked then went to
local showrooms to see what they were actually like.
Certainly no regrets here with the results :thumbsup:
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That looks nice, I thought around £2,000 for the lot, depending on the house!!
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Might not even be that much Sandy. As I say my Squirrel is top of the range multifuel cast iron and cost around £1000. If you have a chimney already you may not need much pipework, and installation shouldn't be expensive. HERAS engineers aren't required in Scotland.
David Womble is the expert on here - where is he?
Anyone got any views on what the stove is made of affecting output or length of life?
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Womble is a treasure, He knows so much about Log burners etc.....we hope :fc: to have a log burner in our dinning room and an open fire in our sitting room, both chimneys are still there
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i do a bit with the engineer its 200 pound and should be done before dinner .wev also had some good second hand ones .The chimneys linings can be bought from plan it stoves e bay fastest supplier to Scotland .Double flue is only 60 pound 3 ft length .The chimney has to be right iv made mustakes with this putting bends in and it do sent get hot enough most burn wet wood and that do sent help .creosoting up .The cheap stoves crack as in Scotland they over burn with the wind and because there cast you Carnot weld them .Even the stoves iv made they have over burns time to time ,
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Victorian Farmer, you are also an expert......I think we would buy as best a fire as we could afford as other wise it will be a false economy, the house we intend to buy is tiny so we should not have the house heated all the time but will have the stove and fire going....as its a cottage the flue is also short so win win, the people who lived in the house for years are across the road and he is a builder so knows what we need to do....I so want our fire to be priority as nothings better for heat!
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You def need a liner, as woodburners burn differently to an open fire, and get it installed by a professional, as it will need a certificate, or house insurance is invalid if you have a fire
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I appear to have taken over this thread but if the reply was for me we will have a liner as the chimney is not high at all and as we are cash buyers we will not have any insurance anyway. We have open fires and have to have them swept and documented for our insurance currently!!
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i think its great to be cosey at night i have to go in the shed to see my fires .We have central heating turnd dawn low rubbish . you said open fire look at this one 200 pound with new bricks. or 350 this 1 deliverd new.The first one jotul pull the lid up when going to bed no problem no parts .The other sweden no problem just cut new bricks to size .
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I hope to come back to this as that's great....we currently have a huge open fire and it throws out too much heat, no heating in this huge house and I am boiling...we get loads of free wood and still have tons of the stuff.......nothing better than free heat! THANKS!
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I my limited experience of open fires v wood burners they both have advantages and disadvantages. An open fire is cheap but is inefficient and needs a good air supply into the house which means a big draught. Woodburners are expensive to buy, especially if you get one that burns overnight. I know from experience they carry a serious risk of Carbon Monoxide poisoning, so the flue and all sealing has to be perfect. They must also burn properly seasoned timber, otherwise they soot up very quickly. This means having a proper drying and storage facility for the wood.
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We have 2 open fires and a huge house that can be cold unless the heating is cranked up at great cost, for some reason, both our fires throw out tons of heat, I lit our big fire within mins yesterday and after 10 mins the room was very warm and later the room hot. We had friends around and we turned the heat off a few weeks ago and we were all roasting yet open the door and its like going into a chest freezer...even the man who did the survey was surprised how good our fires were, he has tried everything to get his fire drawing well, he recons its trial and error. We moved from a house that was on higher footings with floor boards and although the fire was warm, it used to draw big draughts up through the floor boards around your ankles....the house we have now is on the ground virtually, its built in 1750 when that's what they did. Not sure what we will find in our next house but we will start off with an open fire as the chimney is still there and the current owners blocked it off to use the room as a bedroom. Then we will see how we get on and put in a log burner if necessary, the good thing about open fires you can burn larger logs and other stuff.......
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The big difarance is the size of the chimney new house mabe 1 foot square bricks or blocks no skill in rendering the old house 2 or 2 and half square big stones shaped to fit and sealed .A liner will never be that good .The size of the fire place .In the 50s they made plain stoves iv looked at plans and they was superb but boring naw fire bricks that go in 12 months .I use vulcanite used in fernicis never go again just cut to size .The glass should not crack again I cut fernice glass not thin foran makes at 30 pounds the metal we use is again no good .some old UK metal will last for ever .The onley reason I built the stoves was that for 400 pounds you carnt get bricks size all night burn etc .So I built one with glass bricks 2 foot box so you can have a small fire or large fire and it won't burn the house dawn . Iv also over burnt them to 8000 d and no problem the tops are 8 mill thick to cook on .
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It's worth looking on ebay for s/h woodburners.
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We recently replaced a Rayburn with a hunter herald stove, the chimney was already clay lined so we spent around £600 on the stove and £600 on fitting which included a double skin pipe from the stove to the flue and some fire proof board above the stove and taking away the Rayburn. We went for the hunter herald because we have a small room with a big space to fill and it was the only large stove with a low rating.
Had a few local fitters round to discuss.
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Well as we are not moving anytime soon, we are keeping with the open fires, even my husband is impressed at how much heat they both kick out, so if it ain't broke, don't fix it! :innocent:
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More than 40 years ago my father replaced an old stove with a Rayburn Regent with a back-boiler. In winter we used to have to run off the hot water in the tank because it would boil.
Five or six years ago I got fed up with pouring away energy while paying to heat the bedrooms with electric heaters so I changed the hot water tank for a modern indirect one and connected the Rayburn to central heating radiators in the two bedrooms. It had a dramatic effect on the electricity bill the following winter, I can't remember exactly how much, but the monthly direct debit was reduced by £20 or so, I think.
Not sure how much longer my chainsaw is going to last, though, and not looking forward to having to replace it :(
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garmoran I'm a big fan on rayburns iv took 3 out this last 4 months out of favor naw .The last 1 was a blue 1 200 pounds a steal . A rayburn will do 3 rads and a tank .So a cheap way to get a stove .
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Yes VF, we've certainly got our money's worth out of ours, although I've been looking out for another to replace the one we've got, as once when my mother was still alive she stoked it up way too hot and the top is no longer level.
Unfortunately, whenever they come up on eBay they're always in South Wales or the West Country...
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i do no where 1 is its all took to bits and redey to go il ask if its still there .
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We live in a tenanted farm house, it is stupidly big (three stories, 10 bedrooms, most of which we never even go in) and it has no central heating and is just about impossible to insulate well. We have an oil Aga in the kitchen, it heats the kitchen and does the hot water, but is an old style one which can't run radiators and can't be turned up or down, it is either on or off. We also have an open fire in the living room, but the fireplace is collapsing, so we are using the money my husband's dad left us when he died in August to put in a woodburner with a multifuel grate. The total cost is £4020, but there is a lot of building work to be done to remove the fireplace that is in, the chimney which is huge needs to be lined, and they also are hiring a cherry picker because of the height of the house, so I didn't think it was too bad. We will also be able to keep it running all night, so I won't be faced with trying to light a fire with two toddlers helping me every morning. We have eight years left on our farm tenancy, which is a full repairing tenancy, so we are responsible for fixing the fireplace anyway, even though it was wrecked when we took it on, so we thought we may as well have something nice, we reckon by the time we have deducted what it would have cost us to repair the exisiting fireplace, which is now dangerous, the stove will cost us about £250/year over the remaining years of our tenancy, and will be much better than an open fire. And if they renew our tenancy for another 15 years, then we have a lovely stove for that time too. Building work starts on Tuesday 19th, with the stove going in on the Friday - very excited!
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have you thought about replacing the aga with a rayburn, similar (cheaper to buy so you might be able to swap over without much if any extra cost) but can run up to 14 radiators for you? Just a thought.
I think we need pics of the great fireplace project! The house sounds amazing (altho agree it might be less amazing if you are cold!)
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We did think about that, but no one seems to be in the slightest bit interested in our ancient Aga, and the cost of the pipework and radiators etc would just be huge, the house is a very odd design, not helped by the fact we only use some of the rooms (the ones that have intact walls!) and they are not necessarily next to each other. Do think it might be worth having a look again, though, wouldn't hurt to get a price.
Will take some photos of the fireplace project.
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A word of caution regarding the Rayburn and radiators. We put in a Rayburn in our bungalow in Guernsey to cook, run the hot water and the radiators. It just wasn't up to the job, especially providing heating, and did break down quite a lot. In the end we took it out and replaced it with a decent boiler and an electric cooker. Expensive option (we both had paid jobs at the time!) but we were warm!
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Ooh that's a shame, we've quite a few friends who've used them in pretty big places (as well as our old house which wasn't so large)
However it's true that over a certain really long pipe run boilers dont work so well, we have a cottage with attached steading and barn, we fitted a boiler for the main house but we know as we were told at the start that when we do the rest we will have to fit a second boiler as the house is so long and thin! Like a train!
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True about the length of a heating circuit. Our house is on 3 floors and attached to a barn. The heating circuit goes thru 1 meter thick granite walls and even runs into the barn before returning to the first floor of the house then up to the loft bedroom.
Since my Chris can not walk yet we have turned of the 3 radiators in the loft bedroom and I think I am burning less wood to heat the smaller circuit and its radiators.
The wood fired central heating was worth the effort and not too expensive to install and we do not buy in wood. We have the usual copper pipes in the rooms but a flexible plastic with good insulation properties is used under floor boards and in the long runs in the barn ( all pipework is insulated).