The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Growing => Fruit => Topic started by: sweet_lfa on October 24, 2013, 10:22:03 am
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Hello :wave:
I have never attempted to grow any fruit trees before, but would like to plant some apple trees next year. How do I get started? Do I need two trees? Or am I correct in thinking that I can get away with just one if it is a self-fertile species? Thanks, :)
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I'm sure more knowledgeable folk will be along soon, but I have a small orchard in my front paddock of a crab apple, four bush apples trees and a plum. In my back garden I have a pear and two more apples. I haven't the slightest idea what varieties they are since I bought them from Morrison's 5 years ago, and it had rained heavily before I got them planted so the labels had disintegrated. However, you are right that in order to be fertile they need to cross pollinate, but that doesn't mean they have to be all within a short distance - bees can travel up to 3 miles. And there are self pollinating varieties too. I think there are a number of websites with information - good luck and have fun choosing.
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Thanks for your answer. Looking forward to giving it a go!
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I plan to do something similar myself - I've identified a likely spot for planting and my theory is to talk to a local supplier first to get a better understanding.
Why would you only want one tree though - is there a space limitation?
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I have 4 apple trees, 2 pear trees, a plum tree and a cherry tree. I bought these from Aldi last year. They usually have a special on with a selection of bareroot trees at some stage over the winter. I spent about 50 euro on the list above and some raspberry canes. I got fruit from some of the Apple trees and the raspberry canes in the first year. You are limited somewhat by the varieties from Aldi. I think they had two varieties of most fruit and 7 or 8 varieties of apple. It might be worth keeping an eye out for offers in lidl and Aldi over the winter
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Why would you only want one tree though - is there a space limitation?
No, but our land is poor and it rains a lot here (Pembrokeshire), so I didn't want to waste money on buying several only to watch them all die! However, I have now seen two varieties that I like and are suitable cross pollinators, and I am also considering a damson tree (get me!) haha! ;D
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Re. the pollination, you can get self-pollinators but even they benefit from cross pollination - you'll get a better yield. The pollination groups generally refer to when they blossom (and equally fruit) because they mostly need to be flowering at the same time. Crab apples are often used because they flower over a long period so they can be available to pollinate lots of other pollination groups. Same applies to all fruit trees - not just apples.
Don't forget to think about the root stock too - that's vital if you want to match it to difficult ground. Best get specific local advice on that. I've got good ground and want decent sized trees so I've gone with MM106 although M26 is an easier size of tree. But you might find MM106 gives you a smaller tree on your ground.
As for planting, wait now for bare root plants because they're cheaper and easier to plant. Make sure you clear (and keep clear) the ground around the base of the tree - about 1m around - put in lots of quick and slow release plant food into the hole. Don't forget a stake - hammered in before the tree roots go into the hole so you spread the roots around the stake rather than the take being knocked through the roots - and then attach to the stake with a tree tie (or a pair of tights in a figure of 8) low down - point is to stop the roots coming out but allow the tree to gain some strength as it grows by allowing some battering by the wind. Then if you've got rabbits (or geese, grrrr), put some sort of anti-rabbit protection around it. Oh, and make sure you match the old earth level to where it was before - in particular make sure the graft is above ground level.
H
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Both my apple and pear trees are three varieties grafted onto one root as I am limited for space. I am finding though that one variety is taking over but it's not a problem now as my neighbour has planted about twn fruit trees in his garden.
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Just wondering why you're thinking of planting next year and not this? It's pretty much the best time of year now to plant trees, October/November.. I've just put in a pear, another plum and 2 different eaters, and have 2 more eaters to go in when I get the energy to dig yet another hole..
After that I want to plant 2 gooseberries out, 1 more blackcurrant, and cut down and move the raspberries to a better location. But how much of it I'll manage and what will still be in a pot come spring, I don't know yet.. I was going to plant out the blueberries but I think they might be better off in bigger pots as they need more ericaceous compost rather than my soil, or so I believe.. or maybe that's my back talking!
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Yes, dormant season planting is best although we're not quite there yet in the South - all my trees are still growing, raspberries and strawberries are still ripening, bees still flying etc. Probably late Nov through to mid March.
Depends on your soil for blueberries, I guess. We're on chalk so no way would they work here but there are plenty of places in the UK where they can go into the ground (back permitting). Yet another job to add to the list....
H
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Just wondering why you're thinking of planting next year and not this? It's pretty much the best time of year now to plant trees, October/November.. I've just put in a pear, another plum and 2 different eaters, and have 2 more eaters to go in when I get the energy to dig yet another hole..
Yes, sorry, meant to plant now ready for next year :thumbsup:
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Don't forget to think about the root stock too - that's vital if you want to match it to difficult ground. Best get specific local advice on that. I've got good ground and want decent sized trees so I've gone with MM106 although M26 is an easier size of tree. But you might find MM106 gives you a smaller tree on your ground.
Thanks for the detailed advice :) I must admit to having no idea what any of the above paragraph means, but I will do some research! Thanks.
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If you go to www.keepers-nursery.co.uk (http://www.keepers-nursery.co.uk) and search on rootstocks, they have a page dedicated to the different root stocks and their characteristics. Basically most fruit trees don't grow on their own roots. The top will be the part chosen for the quality of its fruit e.g. Cox's apple but it's grafted onto a different set of roots. The root stock determines how big the tree will grow and can also affect some disease resistance. If you have poor soil, you can assume they won't grow as big as on good quality soil so you need a more vigorous rootstock because one that is intended to turn out small trees anyway may not cope at all in poor soil.
The other complexity is how you intend to prune your trees - the form - and that has books dedicated to it. Many commercial orchards now just have trees trained with one central leader and few/no side branches (e.g. Ballerina). This means they can plant them together which in turn maximises yield. I prefer the traditional orchard look so I'm taking out the central leader at a certain height and will train them with a balance of side branches. Depending on the height of the trunk you allow, this can be a bush (short trunk of 60-90cm, tree total height about 2.5-3m), a half-standard (trunk of about 1.2m, total tree height about 3.5-4m) or a standard (trunk of about 1.8m, total tree height of 5m plus). There are loads of other shapes too including the highly trained forms such as espalier, fan, step-over etc. but you ideally need to decide before you choose your root stock how you want your orchard to look. If you choose a dwarfing root stock, you'll never get a happy standard tree out of it - it'll just look sad and spindly. Equally if you want small bushes, you should never choose a very vigorous root-stock otherwise it'll just rebel and end up throwing out shoots everywhere.
Another useful source of info is Brogdale - the national fruit tree collection and full of lovely people! They've got a lot of helpful info on www.brogdaleonline.co.uk (http://www.brogdaleonline.co.uk) including growing guides which will have pictures of the different tree forms amongst other things.
H