The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Goats => Topic started by: SteveHants on October 16, 2013, 03:06:12 pm
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Hi,
I'm asking this on behalf of a neighbour who has a few goats. Some are Golden Guernseys and some are little weird things (pigmy goats maybe?).
She keeps getting moaned at by the ubiquitous 'nosey neighbour' because they are out in a paddock (they have about 4 acres for 5 or so of the bloody things..lucky goats, says I) and the only shelter they have is under a few trees/hedge, which they can all get under if they want. Interfering neighbour says it is cruel to keep them out and they should be housed at least at night in the summer and most of the day in the winter. Apparently the RSPCA have been mentioned.
Now, I only have sheep, but as far as I can see this is b*****ks. I've seen goats out in Snowdonia and the Mendips with no little huts to sleep in, my understanding of goats in general is that they thrived on ground considered to be too crap even for sheep. I am told that goats 'do not have the same kind of waterproof skin as sheep", which again sounds like a load of b*****ks to me - they would be living sponges were their skin not waterproof.
So; goat people: Is the busybody correct or can I definitlively tell her she is talking out of her ample posterior?
Many thanks.
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Mmmmmmmmm
My pygmys do not have the waxy skin that sheep have and therefore do not like rain.
They are put in their shed every night and on wet days they stay in all day. The door is open for them to come out if they want but they choose not to
Maybe mine are spoilt :innocent:
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Busybody is right - goats do need a proper roof over their heads. Their coats are not waterproofed as are sheeps', and so they do get wet and really miserable especially when it is windy too. Surely your neighbour won't have them outside in the winter?
Mine do go out for some exercise in winter, but no grazing and they prefer their hay then anyway.
So your neighbour really needs some proper shelter for her goats! Any good goatbook will have plans for goathouses in it, and it does make me quite cross that people keep animals WITHOUT ensuring they know the basics of how to keep them.
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My goats have 2 shelters between the 4 of them, one is a calf shed (you know, the plastic type arcs?) the other a custom made wooden shed with door. The goats are allowed 24 hour access to grazing but the sheds are always available - bit of light rain they'll stay out, heavy rain and they leg it to the sheds! They stand out in snow etc too.
I remember seeing tethered goats in spain looking so sad and miserable in the rain, I'd also report anyone with goats who didn't have proper shelter as I believe its a health hazard for them.
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Goats need good shelter , a hedge is no good , they must have a roof over them , poor things ...
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Up to this Autumn I would have agreed - but the last month or so, my Boer x goats - kids in one field and 20 adults in another, both with field shelters in, have spent every second grazing in the pouring rain and wind! The field shelters are lovely and roomy, warm with straw and hay in the corner - no! Not a goat in there...
Not sure why but there are plenty of big oaks which they stand under and big hedges which are 10 ft + high and they are in big grassy fields with willows and hedges to eat - maybe they are soooo greedy they don't want to miss a moment!
But of course goats do need a shelter - we have rigged up all sorts of hill-billy shelters in temporary paddocks which they have used. Usually they run inside at the slightest threat of rain - who knows what's going on at the moment....
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With all these things, common sense is key, if your neighbour just thought about where goats naturally (not feral herds as in some uk places) came from this is desert locations or at least very dry arid places, like donkeys.
Hence, like donkeys, they should not be kept without waterproof shelter (or a waterproof rug)as they have not developed waterproofing and suffer in the wet.
Sheep are a totally different species and irrelevant to goats needs, the lanolin and tight fleece on most sheep breeds mean a hedgerow may be fine for them.
Sometimes (not often but sometimes) busybodies are just well meaning people who really DO know better and want the best for the animal :-J
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Any book on goats will tell you they need proper shelter from wind and rain.... the main reason why we haven't got any.... goats that is!
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Goats in general hate being wet and should have shelter, the other misconception is they like grass when they are browsers and like a wide variety of shrubs and plants in their diet. I do wish people wouldn't get animals on a whim. It used to take a trip to the library to get a suitable book but with the internet there is no excuse for not having a basic working knowledge of any animal you keep.
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When we first had goats,they wintered in a paddock with access to a wooden hut,but one goat had severe scald between her toes from the wet grass and the golden Guernsey shivered terribley.
Now our goats are in all winter and only turned out during days when it's nice.
I dont think there are golden guernseys up Snowdon either. The feral goats would be tougher and probably a few die every winter I expect.
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Our original herd of 18 goats live in and get turned out on nice days, after an hour or two they are screaming to be in. If they are out in the big field they jump the wall and go in themselves.
Our second herd of 15 have to be put in and the door closed in bad weather or they stay out and then stand shivering
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They do have a barn thing - they just aren't in it at the moment, they get put in it in winter, and taken for walks and all that other stuff. They don't seem miserable, it has to be said, they seem quite fat. They get branches and whatnot to munch on, so it isn't just grass.
Are goats not like sheep in that bringing them in increases disease risk?
How different are all the feral goats that you see in mountain ranges? I mean, it gets bloody cold in the Atlas mountains, and it has goats, I think.
I understand they don't have lanolin, but they do have a thick coat on em, greasy or not.
The hedge is pretty thick is mostly still in leaf, I'd shelter under it.
What I'm trying to see is if they actually need it - people bring sheep in, but everyone knows that that is a higher risk to the animal than keeping them out, its just the risk you take if you want to monitor lambing so you get an increased percentage, for greater profit (which is not a bad thing per se). Its an acceptable risk, if you will.
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Goats are prone to pneumonia and, with their lack of waterproofing, are much more likely to get chilled is they get wet. Mine have free access to outside but choose to spend wet weather in their shed, although they will stand out in the snow (not when it's actually snowing though). Their coats, while thicker during the winter, do not get as thick as a sheep's fleece so they do get cold. I always give mine more bedding in the winter.
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Unfortunately goats in this country don't have coats anymore even in the last 20yrs I have noticed they tend to be seriously lacking. I had the last of a line of my breed wiped out by traveller dogs and having not bought a goat in for 30yrs I knew I would have to go back to basics and start again if I wanted another line but the longer thicker coated goats just aren't there anymore.Even the Swiss types look more like desert bred goats!
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/jinglejoys/hawfrostmulesdec10172.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/jinglejoys/media/hawfrostmulesdec10172.jpg.html)
My goats have coats and live out BUT they always have access to a barn to get out of the wind and the rain if need be and eat pleanty of roughage in order to keep them warm.Goats are BROWSERS not grazers like sheep hence the reason they have survived despite being driven out of the villages to graze on the poor quality stuff.The goats on Lynton and Snowdon etc survive because they have desent coats and a large foraging area where they can get out of the rain and onto the leewood side of the hill/mountain and out of the worst of the weather if they need.
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My goats have a newly made goat shed - but unfortunately for the other half who built it - they prefer just to shelter under the trees on a wall top, or under the canopy of the building. If the trees these goats have are substantial and really keep them dry I don't see what the harm is?
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If you are wanting to avoid trouble with rspca etc, I would follow the official guidelines in the defra handbook. A shed is must, whether the goats have the brains to use it enough to be free range and healthy, rather than locked in would need a bit of judgement. Our first goats couldn't make a decision so had sore feet. Our later goats had a shed and a paddock,but were thinner than the ones in the stable., even though food was the same.
My billies are still out 24/7, but will be up for winter soon, then they will be in until April.
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Never had any porblem with goats being thick - quite the opposite they are quite intelligent! I would much rather my goats had the freedom of our 10 acres with a few options of shelter, all year round, rather than shut in a building - and I'm sure they think the same! Ok they can't do wet, but they can do cold very well.
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Goats always need shelter, they are very vulnerable to low temperatures and rain. Wet goat is losing a lot of energy and can get bad cold easily. I keep my horses out 24/7 but goats are always in for the night or in the bad weather.
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My billy has a field shelter, half of front is open to the south. rest of gang are in at night (in summer out morn till night so I tried to persuade them to camp out but they like their cosy beds) they have a 2m x 2m 'table' shaped shelter for if it rains during the day, but cold wet weather (yesterday) they were only out an hour when it rained, I brought them in.
Shelter should basicly have good overhead ventilation but dry and no droughts.
Boers seem to have thicker coats and rain doesn't seem to bother them, they'll be out grazing when the big girls are under the shelter.
* Imagine being out in the cold wind and rain without a hat or waterproofs, no warm house to retreat to, Goats hair is very much like ours. put your hand on a wet goat and you can feel the heat coming out as it tries to warm itself up.
They may be fat now, but I think they'll soon lose that if they have to burn that fat to keep warm.
So yes I would agree with the neighbours, esp. as winter comes on and the hedge loses its leaves.
Sorry if this sounds like a rant - just my thoughts.
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My goats live out all year round however they have free access to a barn, and I can guarantee they will be in that barn within a nanosecond of any rain coming on :raining: and if that rain is prolonged they will call for me to bring them hay!
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in a word she is right I suppose, any goat keeping guide I've read always states they should have access to a shelter of some description.
Mine sleep in the barn at night and will stay in if its a particularly bad day but they also have field shelter for any passing showers if they are down the field, mine hate to get wet and very often will disappear in to the shelter before the first spot of rain hits the ground. Another reason they should have a shed/shelter is that if one of them comes down with something you have the opportunity to isolate it to prevent spread of disease.
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:D Mays is right ! My girls are the same, they need good shelter. :goat:
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Cattle, horses and sheep do not have a central parting in the hair on their back, goats do have a central parting like us. Therefore when it rains, if they are out in it, the rain can soak straight down to the skin, which if they then catch a chill can cause pneumonia. Goats do not suffer from diseases like sheep if they are housed for a long period of time. Some goats are even keep as yarded animals. Dairy cows nowadays are often kept indoors- goats can be more similar dairy cows than sheep.
Its all very well letting the goats choose where they want to shelter, but there should be a building there to shelter in, even if it is just an open field shelter. I would also say there ought to be someplace where they could stand out of mud, so a dry floor or paving slabs down would create that. I would have reported your neighbour by now (well actually I'd have told them in no uncertain terms, and if nothing changed I'd be reporting them).
Beth
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When one of our local farmers had a Pygmy billy dumped in amongst his sheep in terrible weather, he couldn't get near it so took out a trailer and parked it in the field so the goat could shelter under it.
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That was kind.