The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Smallholding => Crofting => Topic started by: Rosemary on October 15, 2013, 09:15:41 am
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I think it must be in the legislation but what responsibilities do crofters have to meet and what rights do they acquire by being crofters?
I assume "decrofting" means giving up these rights and responsibilities? How do you "decroft"?
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Where do I start..........it would send you all to sleep to explain all the implications of the land being legally designated a croft. There are legally tenant crofters, owner occupied crofters or landlords of vacant crofts. All have slightly different legal definitions and rights.
To decroft means to take a piece of land out of crofting legislation. This is a complicated legal process that must be approved by the Crofting Commission. It's unlikely a whole croft would be decrofted. More common is if a crofter builds a house on their croft then they will apply for the small plot the house stands on to be decrofted. The main reason for this is that although you can be granted planning permission to build on croft land, unless the house sits on decrofted plot you will not be able to get a mortgage on it.
Crofters must live within 32 Kms of their croft and crofts should be used for approved purposes, agricultural activities. Often comes the right to use common grazings in the adjoining township along with neighbouring crofters.
As you will see from this snippet it's quite different fro just buying a smallholding and working it. The benefits of course are that there are government grants aimed at crofters to ensure crofting activity continues and due to the legal ties croftland does generally come a bit cheaper than ordinary agricultural land.
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Thanks for this - you won't send me to sleep :)
I'm currently starting some research into the similarities and differences between crofting and smallholding. Basically thinking along the lines of increasing support for smallholding in Scotland by extending the concept of a croft to the areas of Scotland currently outwith the crofting legislation - not the ludicrous 'West Lothian Lowland Croft Scheme" which was just a way of some farmer selling his farm in little parcels to horse owner and probably making a killing (IMHO). If being a croft reduces the price, because of the regulations, then it might make smallholding more accessible by putting of the horsiculturalists.
Is the common grazing difficult to manage? Is it vast acreages?
I assume the purpose of a croft is to be a small farm; so what if you do something else non-farming? Does horticulture count?
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Here a copy of the Crofting Reform Act. Perfect for winter reading!
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2010/14/contents (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2010/14/contents)
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Here a copy of the Crofting Reform Act. Perfect for winter reading!
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2010/14/contents (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2010/14/contents)
Presumably there's an idiot's guide somewhere?
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There's the Crofting Federation - they have a FAQ here:
http://www.crofting.org/index.php/faqs/67 (http://www.crofting.org/index.php/faqs/67)
and also the Crofters Commission who have some guidance info.
http://www.crofting.scotland.gov.uk/documents.asp (http://www.crofting.scotland.gov.uk/documents.asp)
I think Moray was added as a crofting county quite recently - not clear yet what, if any, implications that change has to people like us.
Sue
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Moray was certainly added recently as a crofting area but according to the Crofting Commission they dont yet have any crofts registered in Moray.
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Is it the same as an estate owned croft we pay each month a sum of money as well as building new walls gates etc .we then have a thanks giving day where we all meet and discus problems etc .The estates are all over the north of Scotland .
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This is very interesting, thank you.
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In response to the highland clearances, some civil unrest (I seem to remember that the navy had to send ships to Skye at some point) and public opinion the governement held a consultation in the 1880s which resulted in the crofters act of 1883. This act basically said that crofters had an absolute tennancy (that could be passed on to decendants and could not be ended by the land owner) and the rent would be based on the value of unimproved ground (as all the improvements had been made by the crofters - one of the reasons most people in the highlands lived in squalor was that if YOU made any improvements to your house the landlord would decree that the property that you rented was more valuable so increase the rent - A major disincentive to making improvements).
The act applied to the crofting counties in the North and West. At the time there was debate as to whether Aberdeenshire should be included as there were a lot of crofters in Aberdeenshire but there was also a lot of landowners (as opposed to places like Sutherland which was entirely owned by 1 person) so there were enough voices to persuade the governement not to. As a result there are hardly any crofts left in Aberdeenshire.
About 30 years ago crofters got an absolute right to buy at a fixed price (I think 10x the rent).
There is an obligation to use the croft for agricultural purposes and the Crofting Comission has the power to force an unused croft to be re-let to someone who will use it. Even though I own my croft if I don't use it I can be made to let it out to someone else (and remember a crofting tenant is very hard to evict). In practice there are hundreds of unused crofts about and very little being done about it - although the CC has made noises about it in the last year or 2.
Crofting is seen as key to sustaining rural communities in much of the highlands (particularly the remote areas) and without the last 130 years of the legislation I would argue that many of the most iconic communities in the highlands would simply be piles of rubble in the heather. Because of key role in sustaining fragile communities crofting is supported by grant schemes etc, much more than general farming is. It is also argued that crofting activity is much more benificial to the environment than other forms of agriculture.
It has also been said that a simpler definition of a croft is "a small piece of land surrounded by legislation".
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Why was the crofting legislation recently extended to include Moray (and some other places, I think I read somewhere)?
I suppose folk with smallholdings in Moray will have to decide if they want to register as a croft.
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I found another little "lowland crofting" scheme in Ayrshire, which seems just as ridiculous as the one in West Lothian... If there is so much regulation about crofts, wouldn't there be a law about the use of the term for anything that's not within the crofting countries?
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Why was the crofting legislation recently extended to include Moray (and some other places, I think I read somewhere)?
I suppose folk with smallholdings in Moray will have to decide if they want to register as a croft.
I think that the idea is to try and increase the number of crofts available, so it is not so much aimed at smallholders wishing to register (although they could) but to get larger landowners to create new crofts.
Then the landowner has assurance that the land will be used productively and not just become another expensive second home.
The forestry commission has some stuff on their website as they are supposed to be creating crofts on their land.
I am not sure how many new crofts have actually been created - very few I suspect as large estates are not in the habit of selling land.
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I think that the idea is to try and increase the number of crofts available, so it is not so much aimed at smallholders wishing to register (although they could) but to get larger landowners to create new crofts.
Then the landowner has assurance that the land will be used productively and not just become another expensive second home.
The forestry commission has some stuff on their website as they are supposed to be creating crofts on their land.
I am not sure how many new crofts have actually been created - very few I suspect as large estates are not in the habit of selling land.
That makes sense. :thumbsup:
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So Landowners in the crofting areas can divide up their land and make it available to people who want to croft but landowners outwith crofting areas can't? And crofters can get grants and subsidies but smallholders can't - is that right?
Perhaps I'm being simplistic but is a croft not the same as a smallholding? To me both constitute an area of land with a dwelling where the owners/tenants farm on a smaller scale than a farmer.
When John and I lived in Aberdeenshire all our farming and village friends said we owned the croft - but it wasn't in a crofting area, so it was really a smallholding wasn't it? We had sheep, cattle, hens, ducks, grew vegetables, fruit, had a greenhouse, as well as dogs and cats.
So as in the title of this thread "what makes a croft different from a smallholding?" Puzzled.com
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I think simplistically a croft is a smallholding in the crofting counties that is covered by the crofting legislation, which was put in place in 1886 to protect crofters by giving them security of tenure and fair recompense for improvements they make. Croft rents are based on bare land becaus the crofter puts the house, buildings and infrastructure on, not the landlord.
In the 1970's crofters were given the right to buy but most are still tenants. Croft land has to be used for agricultural use. Many also have access to common grazing.
If I bought 100 acres here in Angus, so outwith the scope of the crofting legislation, I could divide it up into 10 areas of 10 acres and offer it for rent but I don't think there would be the same restrictions / responsibilities than if it was in Argyll, for example. If I wanted to sell the 10 parcels of land for smallholding and not keeping horses, I would have to try to tie up the use by using the planning legislation.
I don't know if you saw / remember a post from eclipse, who with her OH, are trying to do just that - set up a proper lowland crofting settlement around Airdrie.
http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=35958.msg357695#msg357695 (http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=35958.msg357695#msg357695)
There was a piece of legislation called the Small Land Holders (Scotland) Act of 1911 that seemed to extend the crofing legislation to all of Scotland, but I think it was repealed in 1931 - but I haven't got there in my research yet. It's my winter project :-)
What I'm thinking is could / should pressure be brought to bear on the Scottish Government to extend the crofting legislation, or a modified form of it, to the rest of Scotland.
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What I'm thinking is could / should pressure be brought to bear on the Scottish Government to extend the crofting legislation, or a modified form of it, to the rest of Scotland
Sounds a good idea to me. So the only difference between a croft and a smallholding is legislation! It would be interesting to see if that law really was repealed.
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"What makes a croft different from a smallholding"
The law.
Land under crofting tenure is under a different legal system of land ownership, if buying one you need a solicitor who knows crofting law.
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Rosemary - Have you come across Cottars yet? I have come across references to them having many of the same rights as crofters but I have never found out what they are.
In the 20s the government bought some large estates and split them up to make small farms (which would be considered smallholdings now but would have been enough to provide a small living then). It was in response to soldiers returning from WW1 wanting land. This was most obvious in some parts of the highlands (I think a couple of the big estates in the western isles ended up being owned by the government and rented to crofters) where there was social unrest brewing. Men had been told to go and fight for their homes and country so they went. Those that returned (and the highlands had the highest casualty rate of anyone in WW1 - places like Uist lost 50% of the male population and 100 years later the communities still have not recovered) found that they no longer had a home as the landowners had taken their land so must have though "what was the point in fighting for our land when we lost our land anyway". The govenment must have feared a bunch of battle hardened soldiers taking matters into their own hands so were forced to act.
Anyway, I digress on a subject that I find fascinating. The government created a load of small farms in other areas too. In his book "thistle soup" Peter Kerr says he was brought up on one of these small farms in East Lothian so it must have happened there too.
I guess in the crofting counties the small land holdings survived as they are protected by law whereas in places like East Lothian most of them were either swallowed by bigger neighbors or merged to form bigger units after a generation.
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[quote author=oor wullie link=topic=38189.msg378002#msg378002 date=1381991622
Anyway, I digress on a subject that I find fascinating. The government created a load of small farms in other areas too. In his book "thistle soup" Peter Kerr says he was brought up on one of these small farms in East Lothian so it must have happened there too.
http://www.nexthomeonline.co.uk/property/walnut-lodge-14b-kinfauns-holding (http://www.nexthomeonline.co.uk/property/walnut-lodge-14b-kinfauns-holding)
This is one of these holdings, near Perth, much modified and without some of its original land holding. As I understand it, the Ministry of War / Board of Agriculture created these holdings all over, for returning soldiers after WW1 who couldn't find work. I think they were often 5 acres or so. There are some at Tealing, near Dundee and at Sauchieburn, outside Stirling. Mostly equestrian properties now, sadly.
From Tealing Village's website
1937 - The estate of Tealing is sold to the Department of Agriculture, for £23,497, to meet the death duties of Thomas Steuart Fothringham
1938 - The Department of Agriculture leases the land in Tealing for 41 small holdings
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From Wiki - I guess cottar / cotter is just another term for crofter / smallholder, pre 1886.
Cotter, cottier, cottar, Kosatter or Kötter is the German (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_language) or Scots (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scots_language) term for a peasant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peasant) farmer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farmer) (formerly in the Scottish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland) highlands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Highlands) for example). Cotters occupied cottages and cultivated small plots of land. The word cotter is often employed to translate the cotarius of Domesday Book (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesday_Book), a class whose exact status has been the subject of some discussion, and is still a matter of doubt. According to Domesday, the cotarii were comparatively few, numbering less than seven thousand, and were scattered unevenly throughout England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England), being principally in the southern counties; they were occupied either in cultivating a small plot of land, or in working on the holdings of the villani (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villein). Like the villani, among whom they were frequently classed, their economic condition may be described as free in relation to every one except their lord.
A cottar or cottier is also a term for a tenant renting land from a farmer or landlord.
Highland Cotters (including on the islands, such as Mull) were impacted by the Industrial Revolution, as landowners realized they could make more money from sheep than crops. The landowners raised rents to unaffordable prices, or forcibly evicted entire villages, leading to mass exodus and an influx of former cotters into industrial centers, such as a burgeoning Glasgow.
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There is a more specific definition in law which I have just found.
http://www.macandmac.co.uk/cb-cottar-subjects.asp (http://www.macandmac.co.uk/cb-cottar-subjects.asp)
A “Cottar” is defined in crofting legislation as the occupier of a dwellinghouse situated in the crofting counties with or without land who pays no rent OR the tenant from year to year of a dwellinghouse situated in those counties paying an annual rent not exceeding £6, with or without garden ground but with no arable or pasture land.
I think that translates as someone with a similar status to a crofter but without the agricultural land.
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This is one of these holdings, near Perth, much modified and without some of its original land holding. As I understand it, the Ministry of War / Board of Agriculture created these holdings all over, for returning soldiers after WW1 who couldn't find work. I think they were often 5 acres or so. There are some at Tealing, near Dundee and at Sauchieburn, outside Stirling. Mostly equestrian properties now, sadly.
Friends of mine bought one of these in 1986 near Balmedie beach, in Aberdeenshire - they were four roomed detached bungalows with only one acre of land. A lot of them up there were extended in various ways - some of them unrecognisable from the original, very substantially built.
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Round here the term croft is used to describe any smallholding by lots of the locals. I think in the minds of the people there is no difference between the two names and they will often ask if you are ''crofting''. Bet they are more aware of the difference in the islands though.
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There is a more specific definition in law which I have just found.
http://www.macandmac.co.uk/cb-cottar-subjects.asp (http://www.macandmac.co.uk/cb-cottar-subjects.asp)
A “Cottar” is defined in crofting legislation as the occupier of a dwellinghouse situated in the crofting counties with or without land who pays no rent OR the tenant from year to year of a dwellinghouse situated in those counties paying an annual rent not exceeding £6, with or without garden ground but with no arable or pasture land.
I think that translates as someone with a similar status to a crofter but without the agricultural land.
Thank you :thumbsup:
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The property we are buying is called a croft even though it isnt and our mortgage company have specifically stated that they wouldnt offer a mortgage on a 'croft' so I assume that the legal complexities surrounding a croft mean that they are'nt ( easily ) mortgable ?
Not sure but maybe that is the trade off for having greater access to grants etc ?
Just my twopenneth.
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The property we are buying is called a croft even though it isnt and our mortgage company have specifically stated that they wouldnt offer a mortgage on a 'croft' so I assume that the legal complexities surrounding a croft mean that they are'nt ( easily ) mortgable ?
Not sure but maybe that is the trade off for having greater access to grants etc ?
Just my twopenneth.
I guess you can say that "a croft" is another term for a smallholding (because you get crofts in many areas) but "land under crofting tenure" is a very distinct legal definition which only applies to land under this system of law in the crofting counties.
You are right,no bank will lend on a croft (under crofting tenure) because the crofter has security of tenure. This means that the bank would not be able to evict the crofter if they wanted to reposses the property. Even if it is an owner occupied croft although the bank could take ownership of the land the crofter would still be the tenant and land with an unevictable tenant is worth very little.
I think there is also an element of because it is something out of the ordinary they won't go near it.
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So how do folk finance the purchase of a croft?
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If you are very, very lucky a vacant croft becomes available and you take on the tenancy of it at no cost just like taking on the tenancy of anything else (but I have never come across such an opportunity).
Most crofts are inherited or assigned to a relative on the crofters death (the tenancy is heritable).
If the croft has a house on it you can decroft the land it sits on thus making it acceptable security for a bank. Similarly a small area of land with planning permission could be decrofted and offered to the bank as security. (Although a legal cock up means that the government is currently unable to authorise any decroftings until they get some legislation through parliament).
If you are just buying bare croft land (or buying the tenancy of croft land) you won't get anyone to lend you money (except perhaps Wonga??). However, due to the restrictions on its use and your residency, croft land without a house site or house on it is not really worth very much, or at least shouldn't be - the amount I paid for mine felt like an awful lot.
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Oor wullie, this has got me thinking. Is there a current going rate for the cost of bareland croft per acre? Just how do they value it when owner occupied crofts are for sale.
When I bought mine we had planning permission in place for two houses which I guess gave it it's value. However I have my eye on a few acres my neighbour has that was once part of my croft. He doesn't use it and I'd be keen to buy it..........
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No idea how they value bare croft land. Given that the owner/tenant has to live within 15km you would think that prices would vary depending on who lives nearby but it doesn't seem to work like that.
The price to buy land outright is usually near enough the same as the price to buy a tenancy.
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Regarding mortages:
As others have stated, it is possible to buy croftland that has a decrofted house site and/or a house already built on the decrofted site. This gives the banks the security they need. I know several who have purchased, via mortgages, like this.
Bare land crofts are a different matter.
It should be noted that even an owner occ croft-OOC- (where the croft is owned outright) can, "theoretically", still be influenced by the crofting commission. If the OOC is not being used for intended purposes the CC could force the owners to let the croft. therefore the owners would then become landlords and the leasee a tennant. The 34km (why km I'll never know, when did we shift to using km?!?) also applies to OOC.
In reality it is very difficult (the CC are veeeery sloooow) to act upon unused croft or absentee tennants/owners. One day, we can hope, that there will be more drive to ensure crofts are used for crofting.
Rgds
Sskye