The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Poultry & Waterfowl => Topic started by: doganjo on August 13, 2009, 11:05:33 am
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I am putting this on as a separate topic because I feel so strongly about it. Just look at these photos of Scraggie Aggie and tell me you can't possibly ever adopt an ex-battery hen! Or even just support the charities that rescue these poor creatures. How can ANYONE allow a defenceless creature to get into this state - and she has even been with me for two weeks, so can you imagine what she was like when i got her? I've also out in one of the original ex batts I rescued last October to let you see the difference. This is Gina and she was about the same size as Aggie but not in such a poor state. By the way, 'm not pushing this because I'm employed by any rescue organisation nor at the moment do I help out on rescue days although I have offered. I just feel very strongly about the cruelty!
www.bhwt.co.uk
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Annie, I totally agree. 10 days til we get our ex-batt hens!!
Nearly all of our animals are rescues of some description, the goats are from a commercial farm so were just 2 of 800, the cats are strays, the mad dog was neglected, even my husband was adopted!
What are the penalties for battery farms once the hens are removed?
Can they just go and restock?
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I think YES is the simple answer to that question. Not only that but they get 50p per hen from the rescue trust, who only ask £1 per bird donation. I usually give a lot more, and I gave them £20 for the last 8 I took, four for Beth and Ally, and 4 for me. At the moment Aggie is hiding from the other birds in the big run but she is safer there than with the other three I got. She can go in and out of the pophole of the shed where I have left food and water for her. I would think another three weeks and I won't be able to tell the difference between them all - they'll ALL be naked ;D ;D ;D
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are the bat egg producers getting a profit from these rescues. i am just wondering if instead of doing the rescues it would be better to spend the time outlawing the intensive systems. if your aiding there margins even slightly then you are just going to end up with more hens. no question the rescued hens are happy but the system needs stopping.
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The outrageous thing is that these big companies get away with it. I bet if the RSPCA came round to our house and saw just one of our birds in that condition due to our neglect we would be prosecuted!!!!
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My friend, who is a farmer, told me that he delivers grain to a battery farm and they have 1.000.000 chickens in the (factory) yes that's one million! All under one roof.
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Scraggy Anne is so cute!!! I have 2 scraggy ones ( I call hem both "wee Stevie 1 & 2" but they are getting better by the day, the first days, out of 7 rescue chickens they were definitely the worst, they were also VERY cocky and attacked other chicken as they went for food or into their shed so I chased them away regularly, now I find I am more attached to them than the others, they run like hell and are very funny...tough little things but I hope they cope with the winter as the Ex Bats do not seem t ever go to bed till very late!!!
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Aggie has stayed inside all day - she is bone dry and all the others are absolutely soaking - so which one is the winner do you think - Aggie or the Bullies ;D
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As someone who goes into the battery farms, can I just add my view?
The farms the hen rescue for which I am a co ordinator uses are never in a really bad way - in fact the rehomers have all said they were surprised by how well the hens looked, they were expecting a lot worse.
sometimes they have a broken wing, or leg, but we keep those back, and try and make sure the rehomers get healthy looking hens. They may be minus a few feathers here and there and a little underweight.
I have been in the sheds to carry the hens out, and although I do not agree with the way battery hens are kept, I could not say anything about the way the hens were kept or treated at the farm. The pens were not cramped, and the hens did not look poor. They do get a bit stressed when they are pulled from the cages to be carried to freeedom, and sadly sometimes the outside world is too much for them, and they die. For a brief moment you do wonder if they preferred it in the pens ....but even if they live for a day or a week, its nice for them to taste freedom.
You cannot get sentimental doing this job, we are on a tight schedule to get the hens out, crated and off round the country. We are not allowed to comment on the hens, the state of the farm etc while we are there - .we are risking the good relationship with the farmer, and we rely on him to allow us back for the next rescue.
I know bad battery farms exist, its like anything else, but in all honesty I have not come across this while rescuing the hens.
I have seen some shocking pictures from other rescue organisations, and as someone who has a farm full of animals, many of which are rescued, it is really upsetting.
Hopefully before too long, we will not be needed to go into the farms, but until that day arrives I am happy to continue helping these lovely hens!!
Thank you to everyone who has helped by rehoming some of these hens - it means a lot to the volunteers when nice homes are found, and we do not have to leave any hens behind.
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I think with better publicity about the good things on keeping hens more people would take them. I tell everybody I know about mine. I don't care if they never lay another egg so long s they are free and happy. Many people could have a couple of hens in their back gardens and fresh eggs every day, but they don't realise how easy they are to look after, and how friendly they are.
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You are right - more people do need to have the hens. They worm their way into your heart with their ways, they are such little characters aren't they!! I think people are sick of my speech on how they should have battery hens in their garden!!
The only thing is, we have rehomed some, only to have to have them back a few weeks later, when the new owner finds out that their garden is not quite as manicured as it once was when they have let the hens free range. Sometimes they are not quite prepared for how much scratching a couple of hens can do. But hey, the hens are happy, so a dug up lawn is nothing is it - its not the end of the world!!!
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I realy enjoy seing my ex bats run free but, what they don't know dosn't harm them... They have life with food and sleep few worries, no diffrent than people who sit inside all day watching TV being paid benifits
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:) very true!! I think even a small run in a garden on a small patch of grass, with the sun on their backs, must feel like heaven.
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After going into the garden to feed my chickens a thought crossed my mind, all those battery chickens are probably looking out at the rain (if they can see through the door) and maybe saying "glad we are in here, all that rain, I feel sorry for out door birds, having to work for their food, be outside in all weathers and worry about being taken by a fox or bird of prey!!!! no not for us".
Who keeps stealing my letters, >:( when I do a spell check a lot of letters are missing!!!
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The farms the hen rescue for which I am a co ordinator uses are never in a really bad way - in fact the rehomers have all said they were surprised by how well the hens looked, they were expecting a lot worse.
sometimes they have a broken wing, or leg, but we keep those back, and try and make sure the rehomers get healthy looking hens. They may be minus a few feathers here and there and a little underweight.
roxy could you please tell me did you find the above or were they hurt in the rescue. if found with said broken bones they need reporting to animal health.
i am sorry but i find people running to rescue these hens as misguided. you helping support the system that you think you oppose. if you want hens get some that are well cared for and healthy. support the small breeder and this will end the caged bird system quicker. don't buy eggs from supermarkets and make sure of the one that you do buy.
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I have to agree with Shetland Paul - sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind. Tescos take the eggs from these shed fulls of battery hens, they insist that the hens are all changed every 11 months, so that they are getting full egg production.
The hens are fed antibiotics in their water every week to stop them all from getting a germ and dying - this is done only to save them losing production.
We have been part of HFW's Chicken Out campaign since it started, and we have stopped taking in ex- battery hens, we used to take in 200 every year, and give them to people once they had re-feathered, as pets for the garden.
This was costing us money, which we did not mind at the time - but it was not stopping all the farmers intensively farming hens just for their eggs.
So Paul is right - never buy eggs from a supermarket, and do not rescue the hens.
If you hit them where it hurts - in the money department, then they will have to stop keeping chickens in large indoor sheds with less that an A4 sheet of paper to stand on each.
Please Join this campaign ASAP
http://www.chickenout.tv/ (http://www.chickenout.tv/)
Thanks - Julie x
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HFW believes in cross breed dogs and thinks breeding of pure bred dogs should stop, he told me so when I asked if his Springer/Weimaraner litter was an accident or deliberate. It was a deliberate mating - he is an invert snob, and he enjoys the publicity. I will carry on doing what I do.
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That fair enough Annie - we all have our own minds, and I appreciate what you are doing.
Just a little story though,
In Cavan there was a farm breeding Mink for fur.
They were well fed and looked after, and not dirty or anything.
Then a few Animal Activists decided that it was unfair to breed them for their Fur - fair enough. The problem was they released them all, from their pens to roam free in Ireland.
Since this happened, we (Smallholders all over Ireland) have had a lot of mink kill our ducks, geese, piglets and hens over the years.
We (The Republic of Ireland) have also lost all our Squirrells and local hares and rabbits.
The local lakes fish stock has declined, and people and children have been attacked by mink when out paddling and boating on local lakes.
My point, and the moral of this little true story is - they would have been better off :-
A. Doing nothing - but carrying on putting people off buying the coats.
B. Killing the mink, and damaging the fur. Then the farmer would have no stock and would not be able to sell the fur. This may or may not stop him breeding - which would still make the activists goal - but also thousands of other animals, wild and free, doing nothing wrong to anyone - would still be free and happy.
That's what I mean by being cruel to be kind - the beginning of the problem has to be stopped.
Its only the way I see things, and I know it is hard to not rescue animals - as I said we have rescued hundreds, if not thousands of hens.
Funnily enough though, since we stopped, the man breeding hens for eggs for Tesco's
who we took them from has since closed down his farm. So it may have helped.
Julie
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Letting potentially wild animals out of cages is irresponsible and a completely different issue form rescuing hens from a one foot square cage to be re-homed to freedom. They don't kill things. Giving the farmer 50p a hen doesn't even equate to the cost of what he'd have to pay to have them killed.
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The guy we took hens from had to pay £1200 per 1000 birds to have them taken away, this he often did, because it took too long to sell them for 50p each, and he needed to clean and re-stock the shed asap.
The chickens were taken away, the meat minced, and that is what you get in cheap chicken soup and chicken pies in the value ranges at large supermarkets and frozen food outlets
So even though the farmer had to pay to keep the money rolling in - the large supermarkets still made money out of those hens - it is wrong - the system should be changed
Instead of having to have damn disabled toilets - we should have hens all free range - heres something useful those european people could work on for a change grrrrrr >:(
Rescue as many as you wish - but don't buy cheap chicken pies or soup = make your own from your own free range chickens that have had a good life
Julie
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It's the MONEY MAKING from this cruelty that annoys me - and how best to stop it
The poor hens - it is totally wrong :'(
Julie
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I agree here, our methods may be different bit we have the same aim. So how to go about it? Email all MSPs? Upload a website? I don't know, but I won't be supporting HFW - perhaps Jamie Oliver though. And anyway he's better looking - a real sweetie, and he loves his Mum! ;) ;D ;D
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Must admit I have a soft spot for Jamie too - have all his books, and his journal for writing my recipes in,
Tara even got me "cook with Jamie" on her Nintendo - he's lovely ;D ;D ;D
Back to the subject - anything that you think will help I will join with, keep me informed on who to write to etc. as I say our local man closed down, but theres a lot of sheds full of hens all over Ireland.
Julie
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As far as I am aware, none of the hens rescued are injured on the way to being rehomed. We have large crates, and do not overcrowd them. I actually go into the sheds, and the hens are treated with care as we bring them out.
If we don't bring them out, the meat man will have them, and in fact does have the ones if we cannot bring them all out. One way or another the farmer is getting rid of his hens, so surely we are doing no harm in bringing them out to be rehomed, and hopefully have a better life? We are all doing everything possible to try and bring an end to battery farms, and hopefully before too long this will happen. But while there is a demand for battery eggs, the farms will still be there.
Until the day comes when the farms are all closed, we will continue to do our best to get as many hens as possible out of those pens. My personal view is that they did not choose to be battery hens thats man made - some of them may only live a few weeks when they come out, but they will have had a better life for even a short time. and that to the people who rescue them, is worth a lot.
I appreciate people see things from the other side on this matter, and thats fair enough - everyone is entitled to their opinions, and I do respect other people's views.
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Aggie is not so scraggy now and is coming out of her shell, so to speak (pun intended lol) Here she is on walkabout and a second video of the others going back in the run. I hadn't noticed she had come out too so I eventually had to pick her up and put her back in as she was enjoying her freedom so much. One happy ex battery hen I think!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_-gzEet1Hs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d1tr3SxAFU
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again i don't think anyone has a bad thing to say about the rescuers but it still comes down to the brass in the end he makes money if they are rescued he loses money if they are not. now 50p may not sound a lot but assuming it would cost them the same to get rid of them the normal way. so for even a small flock of 2000 he would be improving his profit margin by £1. so he gains 2 grand for this small flock scale it up and its well worth it for them to be rescued.
did you report to the farmer about the injured birds. this breaches the defray rules he should have found and culled them. the only way to stop this system is a boycott like the crated veal calfs. if there is no market then they will change.
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Roxy. you are right to keep on doing what you do. Any action is better then none and the problem won't go awy just because we don't like it!
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I don't think not rescuing ex batts is going to stop the practice. That's not where the profit lies. People need to stop buying the egss and products made with the eggs to stop battery farming. Giving the hens a better home for a while is worthwhile IMHO, while we work to a time when rescues aren't needed.
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Believe me, I would like nothing better than us not having to do these rescues - in other words if the farms were not there. Whatever we think about the farmers making more out of us rescuing the hens, than if they went for meat (and I do agree with what has been said on this point) the fact of the matter is that to us, its the welfare of the hens that is important. OK, they may get a little stressed at us bringing them out and into crates, but for me, to think they have spent 12 months in those cages, and then have a trip to the abbatoir to be killed, I think what we are offering them is a better option.
As I said, the conditions the hens were kept in at the farm, I certainly thought they were not like the images we see on the television. They were not cramped, were clean, had plenty of feathers. On our last visit I saw one hen which would obviously not make the journey, and the farmer quickly dispatched it. Incidentally, all the hens are checked by one of our volunteers to make sure they are in what we believe a good enough condition to withstand travelling.
I have had two here with foot problems, but that was due to them standing on wire mesh for so long, and their nails get long. They are fully recovered and walking round my fields with the other hens now!!
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It seems likely that the battery practice of keeping hens will continue and as much as I disagree with it I think those of you that rescue these poor animals and offer them a better life are heroes :bouquet: To give these hens even just a few short months of "normality" is much better than the other option that was open to them.
It is a year to the day today that we rescued Rosie and Toggi, the 2 goats. The day they arrived we were shocked at just what bad condition they were in. The vet was immediately called and we were told that these 2 old dears were here to die, one was 10 and the other 12 and either could barely walk and they held their heads so low as they were so weak and miserable. Today they are 1 million times better, we invested a lot of love, care and money in them and now they are so, so happy and healthy. Even just providing them with food every day made such a difference as the previous owner had them in a field 10 miles away from their home and so rarely visited them which meant they were rarely fed. These 2 now make brilliant pets and I am so pleased to see the amazing change in them and it will be a very sad day when we do eventually loose them.
So, back to the thread any one that rescues any animal deserves a huge pat on the back.
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Well done, on getting those goats turned round, and may they live many more years with you. I have had goats live until they were 16 and 17. I too have rescued animals here in the farm, and like you, think its worth it to give them as much time as they have left, in a happy, secure environment.
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i totally agree that your doing the best for the hens. its just a shame that animals any kind are factory farmed. that includes the freedom ones. we have a flock of about a hundred mixed chickens and the very odd goose or 8 an two turkeys. i would find it cruel to do what the big companies would want you to do. they have fun wandering and expressing there natural behaviour.
most farms won't be like the ones that the animal lib lot show its politic to show the worst and make out the rest to be as bad. sick ill chucks don't make the farmer money. i still find it odd that you can class 2000 birds on a hectare as free range.
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Yes, as well as the battery hen problem, I do have an issue with "free range". Free range to me is being able to walk round a field when they want, but free range to the people who produce eggs for the large outlets, is completely different, and I do wonder if the public realise this. They probably have an image of hens in a lovely large green meadow, when in reality they can come out of a pop hole into a small area, crowded with other hens, and go back in again!!! I suppose it comes down to things like making a profit, and they need to cram as many free range hens on a small space as they possibly can.
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it always is. even to small scale producers no profit no animals. what real got my goat was that ad for the so called free range hens the one that rides on a quad. when you google them you soon see the size of there units.