The Accidental Smallholder Forum

Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: brendan lyons on October 07, 2013, 06:42:52 pm

Title: Farm handed down to me- What to do?
Post by: brendan lyons on October 07, 2013, 06:42:52 pm
Hello all!

I am young farmer who seeking advice on what to do with the farm. My father is terminally ill
with only a year or two left to live. The farm will be handed down to me and my brother in co-ownership.
Our family farm is 109 acres, roughly a sixth is heather, most of it is grazing land. We own about 60 animals, mostly suckler cows , 1-2 year old heifers, calves and few 2 year old bulls. Im currently looking to farm part time as i am at university. My father is unable to do physical work due to an illness. This means i do all the work under my father's instruction. The farm was not as big as it once was. About a decade ago we had nearly 500 sheep, is it a good idea to invest in sheep considering the land,machinery, buildings etc are all there ready for me to use. I only have about a 1000 pound to use, but is it worth investing or am i crazy?
I have a few options
1) Farm part time with hardy black face sheep
2)Lease the land out
3) Sell the land (not likely though)
4)Maintain the existing herd of cows to receive single farm payment (around £3000)
5)Stop farming completely, but the farms remains.
 I
Title: Re: Farm handed down to me- What to do?
Post by: SallyintNorth on October 07, 2013, 07:08:32 pm
Do you like what you are doing at University?

Do you want to farm?

What about your brother?
Title: Re: Farm handed down to me- What to do?
Post by: shep53 on October 07, 2013, 07:29:03 pm
As SALLY more questions ,  can you cope with the winter feeding of the cattle on a part time basis ??       do you have any experiance of sheep since i assume you were young when your dad had them ??   with sheep most of the big jobs could be done during holidays- yes??
Title: Re: Farm handed down to me- What to do?
Post by: SteveHants on October 07, 2013, 07:42:52 pm
If you and your brother want to go to uni etc, I would suggest letting it until you decide what you want to do with your life. You'll need to be around to see whoever leases it keeps it in order, but not as much. You can still claim the sfp then too.
Title: Re: Farm handed down to me- What to do?
Post by: bloomer on October 07, 2013, 07:58:08 pm
where are you?


if you have a heart for farming, find away to make it work...
Title: Re: Farm handed down to me- What to do?
Post by: lachlanandmarcus on October 07, 2013, 09:38:29 pm
If you and your brother want to go to uni etc, I would suggest letting it until you decide what you want to do with your life. You'll need to be around to see whoever leases it keeps it in order, but not as much. You can still claim the sfp then too.


Is that the case under the new SFP? Would they need to be actively farming it themselves under the new system, or can a tenant do it and them still reserve the SFP to themselves? (genuine question here)?
Title: Re: Farm handed down to me- What to do?
Post by: cotswoldfarmer on October 07, 2013, 09:45:26 pm
lachlanandmarcus Still waiting to see what will happen with CAP and what changes they will make to SFP. Should be more news end of the month.
Title: Re: Farm handed down to me- What to do?
Post by: bizzielizzie66 on October 07, 2013, 10:21:59 pm
I'm really sorry about your dad - that's very sad. You describe yourself as a young farmer - that is obviously how you see yourself. Perhaps part of the decision is already made? 

It's very easy to get sucked into a family business though, especially when there is illness in the family (I'm speaking from experience here). Regardless of whether it is cattle or sheep, you need to think if farming is really is what you want to do.  With a holding of that size, you are only ever going to be a part-time farmer in income terms. What's going to make you the rest of your income? Perhaps you need to decide that first- do university, see what's out there and let the farm for a while. Selling it would be a the very last option.  It's a big decision and one you mustn't rush  - best of luck. 
Title: Re: Farm handed down to me- What to do?
Post by: Old Shep on October 07, 2013, 10:42:46 pm
Sorry about your Dad's illness  :bouquet:


My son suddenly inherited my parents small farm ( they had semi retired ) and I help where I can.  You have at least some time to plan whereas it was somewhat unexpected for us.  My advice is that if you have any inclination that you may like to farm gather as much knowledge from your Dad as possible.  Get some sheep if only a few so he can teach you all you may need to know, and keep on with a few cows too.  Its one thing helping with the work as my son did for many years and learnt a lot, but its different when you have to make your own decisions.  TAS has been a great support for us. 
Title: Re: Farm handed down to me- What to do?
Post by: brendan lyons on October 07, 2013, 11:31:41 pm
Do you like what you are doing at University?

Do you want to farm?

What about your brother?
I will continue at university and so will my brother. It will likely be farmed part time. Both of us have up to £18k invested in livestock, so i cant imagine the farm will cease to exist. When we are away to unviersity my uncle will feed to cows in return for us giving him most of our land just for winter/spring grazing of his sheep.
Title: Re: Farm handed down to me- What to do?
Post by: brendan lyons on October 07, 2013, 11:35:28 pm
If you and your brother want to go to uni etc, I would suggest letting it until you decide what you want to do with your life. You'll need to be around to see whoever leases it keeps it in order, but not as much. You can still claim the sfp then too.

I have literally no idea how much 109 acres would be let for. About 95 acres or so is for grazing, both semi-upland and lowland grass. About 40 acres is superb grassland located near a main road. Can you give a very rough estimate of how much i could lease it for?
Title: Re: Farm handed down to me- What to do?
Post by: brendan lyons on October 08, 2013, 12:25:13 am
where are you?


if you have a heart for farming, find away to make it work...
On the foothills of the sperrin mountains in Northern ireland
Title: Re: Farm handed down to me- What to do?
Post by: brendan lyons on October 08, 2013, 12:29:25 am
As SALLY more questions ,  can you cope with the winter feeding of the cattle on a part time basis ??       do you have any experiance of sheep since i assume you were young when your dad had them ??   with sheep most of the big jobs could be done during holidays- yes??
Winter feeding is not a problem, been doing that since i was 13!
Have experience with sheeps and lambs but i was younger then, done everything apart from lambing.
My father maintained the sheep with no help from us, we were too young 7 or 8. I have been spending the past few summers maintaining fencing, cleaning out our houses, slurry,silage etc.
Title: Re: Farm handed down to me- What to do?
Post by: SallyintNorth on October 08, 2013, 12:54:37 am
From all that you've said so far it sounds as though the farm is very close to your heart, so then how could it be crazy to find a way to make it work for you  :bouquet:

I'm afraid I know nothing about farming in Northern Ireland, not how your subsidies work, not what land prices would be, not how stock sells at the markets, nothing. 

Consequently I wouldn't know how to advise on the likelihood of making money out of sheep or calves or what in your situation, sorry.

The arrangement with your uncle sounds very practical while you finish your studies.

And I belatedly add my sympathy about your Dad. :bouquet:
Title: Re: Farm handed down to me- What to do?
Post by: lachlanandmarcus on October 08, 2013, 07:57:55 am
I would re-ask this query on


thefarmingforum and
Britishfarmingforum


Both of these have a number of members who are NI farmers and will def be able to help you with the specifics of land leasing values etc.


Hope this helps  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Farm handed down to me- What to do?
Post by: moony on October 08, 2013, 11:05:06 am
Firstly I wish your dad well. Having lost my dad this time last year to cancer I know how hard it is. He was given up to 6months but battled for just shy of 2 years.

If I was in your position having been through what we have I would sell the stock or at least the bulk of it and let the land by licence while retaining the single farm payment. If you do that get a proper agreement drawn up so if the CAP reform changes significantly you still retain all payment rights and have a separate agreement tying the licensee to maintain the boundaries so you don't have that hassle. Put the money from the stock in an ISA and use the single payment to help you live. That would allow you to concentrate on University, the impending care and have enough money to set up again if you wish when you leave Uni. Obviously that depends entirely on your brothers wishes and more importantly your fathers. If he really enjoys the farming side I would keep it going even if its only on a small scale to give him something else to think about rather than his illness .I don't know about rents in NI but around here you could expect to get at least £100 per acre for the grazing land if it is half decent. I certainly wouldn't sell the farm or land until you are 100% sure what you want to do in the future. It will provide you with an income and an enviable asset whether you farm it yourself or not. It would definitely be worth speaking to a professional financial advisor and discussing your exact circumstances now and what may happen financially when your father sadly passes as you may be subject to inheritance tax etc.
Title: Re: Farm handed down to me- What to do?
Post by: Victorian Farmer on October 08, 2013, 11:55:45 am
It will be hard wev got 60 acres croft my dad needed help has the money ran out iv been running the place  since 2000 we are both skint we have 200 sheep geese hens etc think hard wev never got on top this cold spring cost us .can you cope with feed bills maintenance etc
Title: Re: Farm handed down to me- What to do?
Post by: Marches Farmer on October 08, 2013, 03:04:58 pm
The next couple of years will be hard for you and your family, what with illness, studies and worrying about what to do for the best.  Letting someone else run the farm for a while would give you time to deal with the other stuff and sort out where you're going.  Quite a few folks (particularly those on Farming Forum) would find it impossible to get their heads around farming commercially on less than 500 acres.  What matters is not how much your income is but how much your income minus your outgoings are.  If there's no debt attached to the farm you're up and running already.  If you can keep costs down by utilising what's there already and perhaps look at a small number of high value animals rather than big numbers of low value commercial type sheep and cattle you may well be able to make a go of things.  What's better for you - 25 finished commercial ram lambs at £70 a head or 5 shearling terminal sire rams at £400?
Title: Re: Farm handed down to me- What to do?
Post by: Backinwellies on October 08, 2013, 06:46:54 pm
Sorry to hear about your father.

The main thing here seems to be what you and your brother want for the future. 
The farm is not going to support one of you let alone 2 when you have a family.  But maybe renting more land is an option for post Uni?
 You haven't said what you are doing at Uni .. but as you are both going then maybe either one or both of you may not want to farm long term?  Do either of you have another career in mind? Do you live somewhere where you could follow an alternative career and farn part time?   There are so many variables that advice is impossible but the main thing is for you and your brother to discuss this together.
Title: Re: Farm handed down to me- What to do?
Post by: Sandyknox on October 08, 2013, 08:09:10 pm
I am sorry to hear about your father thoughts go out i think you should defenintly stick in and stick with the sheep there is still alot of work in sheep but would be alot easier to manage while you are at uni hope that helps
Title: Re: Farm handed down to me- What to do?
Post by: brendan lyons on October 09, 2013, 07:58:32 pm
Sorry to hear about your father.

The main thing here seems to be what you and your brother want for the future. 
The farm is not going to support one of you let alone 2 when you have a family.  But maybe renting more land is an option for post Uni?
 You haven't said what you are doing at Uni .. but as you are both going then maybe either one or both of you may not want to farm long term?  Do either of you have another career in mind? Do you live somewhere where you could follow an alternative career and farn part time?   There are so many variables that advice is impossible but the main thing is for you and your brother to discuss this together.
I study geography at uni, i am thinking about how i could tie possibly something agricultural and geography together?
Title: Re: Farm handed down to me- What to do?
Post by: Big Light on October 09, 2013, 08:29:37 pm
IF you want to invest in livestock that are cheap and require little maintenance buy up a load of unregistered Hebrideans ewes or older registerd ones cross them with a continental sire and produce lambs bigger than there mothers by the end of the season for very little input and sell either fat or store depending on how good your grass is - if you use something like a suffolk the lambs will be white fleeced so not loosing money in the fat ring for being black
Title: Re: Farm handed down to me- What to do?
Post by: Liam_86 on October 10, 2013, 08:40:05 am
could you also look into a farm share scheme or anything like that?

not sure if any operate in NI

Good luck and best wishes to your father
Title: Re: Farm handed down to me- What to do?
Post by: zarzar on October 10, 2013, 09:13:46 pm
 :wave: i have been reading your post sorry to hear about your dad and i was thinking it maybe worth selling some of the livestock and rent the land out whilst at uni as the rent would cover what livestock you keep but maybe help with your uni fees as you could do a lease agreement with someone untill you finish uni maybe that would keep the land going without all the extra work whilst you are at uni.
Title: Re: Farm handed down to me- What to do?
Post by: Bramblecot on October 10, 2013, 09:40:56 pm
Sorry about your Dad's illness, enjoy your time together.  Have you thought about contacting CAFRE - they have campus's at Enniskillen, Antrim and Cookstown.  Might be able to help with student placements to do the physical work if your Da can supervise.  Or they will know other young farmers in your area who may be looking to start out.  I am sure you will come up with  :idea: , just stay positive and open-minded.  Best wishes.
Title: Re: Farm handed down to me- What to do?
Post by: lachlanandmarcus on October 10, 2013, 10:54:30 pm
Before you do anything with the stock wait to find out what the rules will be for any new subsidy system coming in, no point selling £200 of stock and losing £3k in subsidy  for the sake of a few weeks.
Title: Re: Farm handed down to me- What to do?
Post by: danielh on October 23, 2013, 12:09:55 am

[/quote]
I study geography at uni, i am thinking about how i could tie possibly something agricultural and geography together?
[/quote]

On the subjects you are studying I myself am a farmers son and have become a geotechnical / geo-environmental engineer from an ecology/geology degree which combines working outdoors with a geology background which can be an interesting career area often covering agricultural areas so connected to farming but in a different industry. Currently now working offshore which has enabled me to start my own small farm recently as unfortunately unless a sizeable farm there is not enough income for a reasonable living.