The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Pets & Working Animals => Dogs => Topic started by: Alistair on September 30, 2013, 09:43:35 am
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How does one go about reporting a vet for negligence?,
I have so far been stung for £300 in vet bills trying to sort out my little Julie's 'infected stitches', it is now 5months since she was spayed, she is still in a collar hood thing, I have just found out that the infected stitch appears not to be a dissolvable stitch and she has been rejecting it (by a different vet)
Now in my mind that means the original vet has messed up, and I want to cause as much fuss as possible, I wish vengeance, I know I can't go round there and Kung fu them to death or anything, but I'm really not happy
So before I speak, sorry meant rant incoherently, at them, any suggestions on professional bodies for vets?, I will be asking for my money back once I've got the written stuff off my new vet
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That's terrible. And poor little dog, too. :love: :dog: You go for 'em Alistair.
One or more of our vets and vet nurse folks will be along soon and will know exactly how to go about making a formal complaint.
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I hope so, the rcvs doesn't really seem to be the place to go because it's not 'that' serious reading their blurb about complaints
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Poor little thing and seemingly a silly mistake.
We weren't happy about the treatment our little pup had at the vets we were using. The outcome would have been the same :'( but they just seemed to drag their feet and I believe made mistakes that meant the situation took longer than needed to be resolved and a firm diagnosis reached. They sent urine samples while on antibiotics which they then said was a mistake .... so more urine samples had to be taken. Pup was booked in for xrays using dye to show structure of urinary tract. They began the procedure and then couldn't complete because in the middle of it all they discovered that they didn't have enough dye to carry out the tests :o :rant: . If I'm baking a cake I check I've got the ingredients before I begin. :rant:
Loads of other stuff too.
Won't say how much we spent.
Ashamed now to say that I did't complain to any other body and paid the bills. Just so upset at the time that I was probably going to lose my little dog.
Changed vets and diagnosis sorted within a very short time and frank discussion given by new vet on lack of prospects. Broke our hearts but at least our new vet is business like and appears so professional in comparison.
Follow it through Alistair .... as we should have done.
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Our vets is a big practice and they're all good, bar one of them. I don't want to change vets so I ask who's on and dodge the vet I don't like. It's a tactical and diplomatic nightmare as I don't want to diss him to his colleagues but I won't pay for my dogs to be treated by a D/head.
Once I took one in for an op and he took her away to weigh her before surgery and brought her back to me in the waiting room. She dropped to the floor soon after and her eyes rolled back in her head - scared me silly and I thought she was having a fit. turned out he had given her a sedative and not seen fit to tell me. If that had been an old person with a weak heart ..... well, see my point.
Another time I told him one of the dogs teeth were causing her pain and I thought one might need extracting. He didn't even touch her - I had to lift her lips to show him her teeth and gums and he just said ''oh it's just tartar, they're not bad, if that was my dog I'd leave well alone''. I took her back in next day and asked to see someone else on the quiet for a second opinion and told the other vet that his colleague hadn't even opened her mouth. She had exposed nerves on her back molar and I was right, it did need to come out. I wasn't charged for the consult so that tells me his colleague thought I'd had poor service too.
You need to feel confident with your vet and you need a vet who cares more about a good outcome than about spending your money. Most vets are like that but you need to be shrewd and when you find a good un, hang onto him/her.
Good luck whatever you decide to do.
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Oh I will, I will, found out that the infection sample came back as being penicillin resistant, shes been on penicillin for the last 6 weeks ???, my new vet has really impressed me, she's going back on Wednesday to have the wound opened and cleaned and re stitched, she's on a different antibiotic and she's on anti inflammatory stuff as well
He's doing me a written report on what he has and undoubtably will find on Wednesday, but he has advised me to take his findings back to them, in his words 'it's a bloody mess', he's obviously a proper vet, I think I've now just topped the £600 mark (excluding the cost of the spaying)
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Is that her picture in your avatar?
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Yes that's Julie sparkles, the one behind her is my other sable border collie Morris and in the background is mini-baby, big George was eating his own poo at the bottom of the garden so didn't make it to the photo call
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Julie. & moz
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My cousin came to visit with her young GSP and was concerned as the mother of the pup had just been spayed and the vet cut into her spleen.....not great at all, I suppose any Dr or Vet or Surgeon can make a mistake but they should compensate you at least!! Hope things improve soon!!
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http://www.bva.co.uk/contact.aspx (http://www.bva.co.uk/contact.aspx)
Make a formal complaint in writing, and include the report from your new vet. Send your previous vet a copy and ask for your money back, and an apology for the pain and suffering to your dog, and for the anxiety and worry to yourself.
when complaining about anything always remove your emotion, always state what you believe to be the cause of the complaint, always state what you wish the outcome to be. Send copies of everything to all concerned parties.
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http://www.bva.co.uk/contact.aspx (http://www.bva.co.uk/contact.aspx)
when complaining about anything always remove your emotion, always state what you believe to be the cause of the complaint, always state what you wish the outcome to be. Send copies of everything to all concerned parties.
Absolutely :thumbsup:
The old John Cleese management training video had it SCRAP -
- Situation - what we set out to achieve
- Complication - what went wrong
- Resolution - what I want to see as restitution
- Action - what needs to happen now
- Politeness - no bad language, in fact no adverbs or adjectives at all, just plain facts no emotion.
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Cheers doganjo, I've just followed that link and if you delve deep enough it just refers you back to the rcvs complaints procedure.
What I think I'll do is write a very matter of fact letter to the senior partners of the practice as you have suggested noting that if a resolution can't be reached I intend to take it up with the rcvs complaints procedure and enclosing the report from the new vets.
Hopefully they, the owners, will have a different attitude to their staff vets who just seem to want to prolong the condition until the money runs out, cynical I know, but that's how I feel at the moment.
Do you think I should ask for all the money back, excluding the spaying op plus the fees I've incurred for the new op she's having on Wednesday, or just the original vets fees?, I've got receipts for everything
Sally it's a long time since I was at skool, can't remember wat a adverb is think an adjective is a doing word and a noun is a thing word, haf to get my big crayon out and practice my writing :thumbsup:
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Try claiming the lot - as compensation for your pain and anguish and pain and suffering of the dog. Those are stock phrases - use them!
You can email the BVA direct - or write to them - don't need to go to RCVS
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Sally it's a long time since I was at skool, can't remember wat a adverb is think an adjective is a doing word and a noun is a thing word, haf to get my big crayon out and practice my writing :thumbsup:
lol. Basically avoid describing / emphasising / embellishing words. Use, "The dog became sick", not, "The dog became horribly sick", and, "We told the vet on a number of occasions", not, "We repeatedly told the deaf and stupid vet" ;)
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The BVA have no powers over vets. Its the RCVS that deals with all complaints.
I can't comment too much on the case as don't know the details, but yes dissolvable sutures can sometimes cause reactions. All wounds can get infected, penicillins are often the first drugs to be given, but if they are not working then swabs taken and put on an appropriate drug.
Some do need redoing and a different type of suture used. The reaction can cause lots of fibrosis and swelling and they can look awful. But is a risk of surgery, it can happen to any animal using any type of suture material, there is no ay of knowing if they will have a reaction.
Where you prob have a case is if they did not treat appropriately- did not swab after antibiotics obviously not working and not dealing with the wound with in an appropriate time frame. Otherwise i'm afraid the RCVS will not do anything as TBH there is nothing for them to get involved with.
TBH even in really really bad care cases the RCVS do nothing except a slap on the wrist, oh unless you turn up to work drunk or are abusive towards clients.
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The BVA have no powers over vets. Its the RCVS that deals with all complaints.
Where you prob have a case is if they did not treat appropriately- did not swab after antibiotics obviously not working and not dealing with the wound with in an appropriate time frame. Otherwise i'm afraid the RCVS will not do anything as TBH there is nothing for them to get involved with.
That's really it, the new vet was most concerned over the fact that the report on the swabs said it was penicillin resistant and then they gave her penicillin with no follow up tests when it didn't work
I really do appreciate that there are risks and that there can be reactions, it's just that 1 of the stitches is DEFINATLEY not dissolvable where some of the others are, don't understand that but that's the facts, and that the top end of the surgery is very messy so he's concerned enough to want to open her up again
Just fed up with being treated as a cash machine and I don't feel like rolling over this time without some sort of a fight, especially as we've had 10 visits to the vets in the last 12 weeks with her and she's not got any better, I'd say worse in fact and that I seem to get charged for drugs each time and sometimes an examination fee and sometimes not and sometimes it's a vet I know and sometimes it's a nurse and sometimes it's a vet I've never seen before and sometimes it's the bloke who owns the sun tan place next door and non of these people is the person who did the surgery initially who I never saw before and haven't seen since
Thank you all for your views I shall consider them equally and then probably use my magic Kung fu ninja kick of death on them all
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I had much the same when one of the vets from the practice I use gelded 2 of my ponies. Not only was it a terrible job with both ponies suffering infections right from the start ( vet gelded inside dirty stable even though I had a place scrubbed out ready ). One of the ponies had to be opened up again months later and I let the practice know how I felt about the whole event. They fixed the pony who had to be opened up again at their expense but I lost all trust in them.
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Thank you all for your views I shall consider them equally and then probably use my magic Kung fu ninja kick of death on them all
:fc: hope not!!
I did not want to reply as people may think I am being stupid etc. BUT...I had my stiches react after each 3 caesarean's and after being spayed :innocent: , I reacted to the stiches and as for antibiotics, my system usually reject them...any little bug and its made worse with intervention, that's me, I am not a dog (some may disagree but that's fine as I love dogs) but just shows how some of us creatures react to things that make other people better...no compensation to you though, maybe the vet could be a bit nicer to you and Julie though.....I did not have to wear a collar buy the way but my belly was wide open for weeks yukkkkkk My eldest Lab reacts to things but was fine after being spayed, same with my younger one!! Now, no nija kicking, YOU will end up at the Dr's :innocent:
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:roflanim: oh HGL. There you go again.
And I mean that in the nicest possible way.
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The BVA have no powers over vets. Its the RCVS that deals with all complaints.
So generally speaking because you won't get anywhere it's not worth the bother.? ::) Sorry but that isn't an attitude I'd take. If my animal had been treated like that I would be doing something about it -,even if there was little chance of any recompense I'd make my views known - very well ,known!
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With you on that. The fact I'm the 'local' dog groomer muddys things a bit, I could be quite vindictive on the other hand so could they, I'm going to try the writing a letter to the senior partners route and threaten taking it to the rcvs, they've lost my business now, for four dogs, not just one, and to be honest I don't think I'm the only one round here who's getting a bit ratty with them, mainly because you never see the same vet twice and they only talk to each other through the medium of computer notes and telepathy
All I want is Julie not to wear a big cone on her head so she can be Julie and interact with the other 3 without them being terrified of the big plastic cone of pain, and believe me an over excited collie with a big plastic cone travelling at over excited collie speed causes pain, significant pain and generally to the achillies area of the lower leg ( I'm sure she's been sharpening it when no one is looking, I wouldn't put it past her, she watched that peeky blinders series on the telly the other night, the one where the blokes sew razor blades in their caps, bet she got the idea from there, clever these collies, best not let her watch gold finger again, she might start throwing it about)
Happy, don't worry it's a magic Kung fu ninja kick of death, not your normal Kung fu ninja kick of death, took me ages to learn it, I had to carry water up and down stairs for weeks and other stuff that I really can't be bothered inventing at the moment
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Alistair, think others are right in that these things do happen but it's whether or not they solved the problems in a professional and methodical manner. Not sure I've used the right words there but you get what I mean.
I saw a lot of different vets. They didn't seem to know which tests had or hadn't been done .... even argued with me that they had done tests that they hadn't until I insisted they go look at their notes. ::) Didn't seem to approach things in an organised or methodical way when trying to eliminate possibilities.
Maybe it's the "lots of different vets" thing with a lack of continuity in the care of that patient.
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Thanks in the hills :thumbsup: but it is a case to take up that they should have noted that the bug was not responsive to penicillin. I am so glad our practice is a small and personal one! Maybe I should sue the Dr who also gave me the wrong stuff :thinking:
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:wave:
Solicitor here
Your details don't say where you are and it doesn't matter for the law on negligence but it does for process.
Firstly, if you want you can pm me details of all of the individual meetings and where you thought there was a lack of veterinary car (continuing to miss something leading to further treatment should be repeated again and again in the narrative as should if you were told that the stitches were dissolvable which indicates and error, and a negligent error).
You should complain originally to the senior partner of the vets and ask for a review of the care and rebate of your fees for the error you think occurred. Ask for a response in 14 days.
If you are in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, after this write a letter, more formally using the Pre-action Protocol for Professional Negligence Claims, you will find precedents and copies on the web. Basically its a formal letter under the Civil Procedure Rules which contains 9 sections setting out details of the parties and the claim. One of the sections in there asks whether ADR (Alternate Dispute Resolution) is appropriate, I would suggest it is, but not that a formal ADR such as CEDR (Centre for Dispute Resolution) be used because they have to be paid and its too expensive... suggest an informal mediation using a member of the community you are both happy with.
They have 14 days to acknowledge this and a further 14 days to do a reply. They will want to sort it because its insurance notifiable and may affect their claims experience. They will want to sort it anyway.
If they don't respond or don't make an offer, you can use the small claims procedure yourself as this is under £5000 and therefore aren't at risk of costs.
Obviously this is not detailed advice so pm me or tottle off to the citizen's advice bureau when there is a solicitor (and not a trainee) on. You should not need to aim all barrels and torch the vets and my professional advice is remove the emotion, do not escalate unnecessary and treat it as a dispute and not a feud.
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:thumbsup: That's the reply you needed. Brill KC
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:thumbsup: ......brilliant informed advice :thumbsup:
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Kitchen cottage
What can I say, that's about everything I needed to know! Thankyou,
I'll do some research on the pre action protocol, but in the first instance certainly will write to them, believe me, I am able to remove emotion and be very matter of fact when I want to, I'd guess they all ready have an inkling something's up (at the local branch anyway) as my new vet had got Julie's records from them before he saw her, and the paperwork certainly demonstrates error on their part re the drugs.
Thanks again, I'll only trouble you with a pm if I need something small in the way of advice, otherwise I'll use cab, thanks for the offer though
:thumbsup:
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Jac our cat went for months with a sore eye. In the end they decided to operate as she had a problem with the eyelid. When I went to collect her they had not done what they said and put her back on more cream and pills. .....she got worse. I was so fed up that I took her to another practice who did the operation and Jacs is now fine. Cost £300. when I spoke to my own practice al I got was, glad the operation worked.
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i bet you signed a pre-op disclaimer? do you have a copy of the small print?
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Didn't read your post fully sorry. I would complain definitely. It sounds like your new vet will write aa statement as well which is good.
Good luck. Its awful that a bad vet can ruin people trust in the professon.
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Shy girl, I did sign the disclaimer, but it's the issue with how the infection/rejection has been treated and the fact that they have left at least one non dissolvable stitch in to dissolve, i will be complaining, off to the vets in a moment to take her for her op
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:fc:
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Disclaimers deal with consequences of treatment carried out competently, they do not take away responsibility for negligent treatment
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KC I've pm'd you with a tiny teeny question, thanks again
Btw she's fine, very sorry for herself but fine, I've got her big crate up in the lounge and a big fluffy dog bed in there, off to pick her up now
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Cheers KC :thumbsup:, that's what I thought re your pm
She's back now, she's in bed looking sorry for herself, poor wee mite