The Accidental Smallholder Forum

Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: Muc on August 11, 2009, 11:22:08 am

Title: Apples
Post by: Muc on August 11, 2009, 11:22:08 am
Hurray! The apples have arrived but how many are too many for four-month-old pigs? I've given them seven each for a morning snack and plan to give them the same again a couple of more times during the day.
My neighbour leaves sacks of them at the gate - a variety called Ladies' Fingers, I think. I know it's going to cost me in rashers later on but that's all part of the fun.
Title: Re: Apples
Post by: doganjo on August 11, 2009, 12:17:29 pm
Has anyone worked out rates of exchange for bartering?  How many rashers will you have to give your neighbour for all those sacks of apples?  What do I get for half a dozen eggs?  I sell my eggs at £1 for 6, but some folk charge more.  My hairdo costs £7 (OAP rates) so should I give Laura 42 eggs or 28?  If we are trying to avoid currency how can we work out rates except by using it as a comparison?
Title: Re: Apples
Post by: gavo on August 11, 2009, 01:38:23 pm
Hello,

Very roughly speaking treat the apples as one third of the nutritional value of pig meal. A four month old pig would be on around 4lbs of meal a day - so 12lbs of apples, BUT, you must make sure that they get enough protein so only treat the apples as a supplement.
I wouldn't go more than 6lbs of apples & 2 lbs of meal. If this turns out to be a regular thing then 3lbs of apples & 3lbs of meal.


Cheers

Gavin


Title: Re: Apples
Post by: Lizmar on August 11, 2009, 02:20:01 pm
How about instead of using currency use calorific value!!  The women would probably do better with the conversion - which of us has never seen a calorie guide!!  Well I suppose I'm talking for myself, mustn't insinuate that anyone else would use one, but I can look at most things and know the calorie value and usually the cholesterol value as well!!!
Title: Re: Apples
Post by: Tullywood Farm on August 11, 2009, 07:37:53 pm
Muc

Be careful with the apples - I disagree with Gavin because too many apples can make your pigs very sick.

Three or four per day are ok but more than that and they will become ill.

We bought pigs from a lady in the North and she had problems with her pigs because the neighbours were feeding them apples and they were beginning to ferment in the pigs stomach. The pigs were staggering as if they were drunk.  When they are used to a certain food, changes can be harmful.



Julie
Title: Re: Apples
Post by: gavo on August 11, 2009, 08:19:19 pm
We have fed our pigs a very varied diet fruits inc apples on some occasions these have made up the largest part of their ration for the day.We have never had any problems with the pigs or their digestive tracts. I've never heard of pigs managing to ferment apples in their gut their digestive transit times not being dissimiliar to humans.
Title: Re: Apples
Post by: Muc on August 11, 2009, 08:30:19 pm
Thanks guys. I will confine them to about 10 small apples each per day and see how it goes. What about that breed (Gloucester Old Spot?) which was bred to be an orchard pig - are they able to digest more apples than other breeds?
Regarding barter: Everyone likes pigs and everyone likes to be helpful by giving surplus fruit and veg. I reckon if I get another two sacks (that's four in all) that I'll have to fork over a nice little roasting joint and a packet of sausages. I know it doesn't add up financially or in calories but this neighbour is also the man who fixes punctures etc so there are other benefits. Ultimately, a community works on trust and the more generous you are the more bounty will come your way. As the Christians used to say (before they got greedy), 'to give and not to count the cost...'
Title: Re: Apples
Post by: Higgins11 on August 12, 2009, 02:22:05 am
I'm going to have to agree with Gavo here.............feeding pigs apples will not hurt them.  it is just a source of sugar and you must watch the protein levels


Ruminants are different. Sudden changes in diet and fermenting sugars such as apples or corn silage will kill goats, sheep, etc

Title: Re: Apples
Post by: Hilarysmum on August 12, 2009, 07:32:42 am
My pigs (not all GOS) have the run of the 'orchard' in apple time.  Never so far had any problems.

'to give and not to count the cost...'  wasnt that Kippling  ...?
Title: Re: Apples
Post by: Muc on August 12, 2009, 09:23:10 am
Okay. Thanks again. I'll increase the apple ration and see what happens.

Hillarysmum, I Googled that quote and it turns out to be Ignatius of Loyola, founder of the Jesuits. Wasn't I well brain-washed as a child?
Title: Re: Apples
Post by: dixie on August 12, 2009, 09:44:32 am
Muc, just remember if you add apples to the ration reduce the amount of pig nuts slightly if you dont want too fatty pigs! my gos had lots of apples last year ontop of their usual amount of feed and they were fattier than usual!
Title: Re: Apples
Post by: Tullywood Farm on August 12, 2009, 09:47:49 am
Well Good Luck Muc

Only sharing true information from a major saddleback breeder in the North of Ireland, I believe Crab Apples were to blame according to their pig vet.

Not an experience I had, but then I would not feed a lot of one thing to my pigs.
Rare Breed pigs need handling carefully, and we have very few problems with all three breeds
we keep, the only problems we have had is with ones bought in, and that was a long time ago.

A varied diet is good for pigs and humans. We also suffer if we eat too much of anything too ;D ;D

Good luck with the bartering Muc - great to get it

Julie ;)
Title: Re: Apples
Post by: shetlandpaul on August 12, 2009, 10:30:38 am
our crosses only had a couple of apples and they got very bad runny poo. i would start off slowly maybe 1 a day then build up.
Title: Re: Apples
Post by: welshboy on August 12, 2009, 11:28:59 am
Muc

Be careful with the apples - I disagree with Gavin because too many apples can make your pigs very sick.

Three or four per day are ok but more than that and they will become ill.



We bought pigs from a lady in the North and she had problems with her pigs because the neighbours were feeding them apples and they were beginning to ferment in the pigs stomach. The pigs were staggering as if they were drunk.  When they are used to a certain food, changes can be harmful.
Julie
When I was a boy my father called the vet to a pig who was staggering.The vet asked what has she been eating.-Windfall crab apples self feed. -She is drunk ! I will call tomorrow.
Following day pig very poorly with a hangover !



Title: Re: Apples
Post by: gavo on August 12, 2009, 11:49:01 am
On the contrary we find rare breed pigs incredibly hardy,they have been bred over many many years to not need all the pampering that the modern commercial pigs require. As for drunken pigs [shetlandpaul] it's usually due to apples that have begun to ferment ie they are over ripe.As we said a varied diet is what a pig likes ie a good mixture of fruit and veg and their compound ration. If a pig can cope with hoking in the earth then generally they can cope with pretty much any food you care to give them [.so long as stay within the guidelines set out by the authorities] A pig roaming free outside should have few if any health issues
Title: Re: Apples
Post by: Hilarysmum on August 13, 2009, 09:03:57 am
Muc re Kipling and Ignatius :    :-[ :-[ :-[  HM
Title: Re: Apples
Post by: sausagesandcash on August 13, 2009, 10:25:50 am
Ah yes Mr. Kipling.....he does make exceedingly good cakes!   ;)
Title: Re: Apples
Post by: Hilarysmum on August 13, 2009, 10:59:41 am
Still embarrassed by my misquote.   :pig: :pig: :pig:
Title: Re: Apples
Post by: Greenerlife on August 13, 2009, 05:01:00 pm
This thread is very interesting!  My two piggies won't eat apples!  Got them quite late at 14 weeks and they won't eat anything other than pig feed.

Will buy at 8 weeks next time!
Title: Re: Apples
Post by: shetlandpaul on August 13, 2009, 07:20:20 pm
odd pigs.
Title: Re: Apples
Post by: sausagesandcash on August 13, 2009, 10:08:03 pm
chop up a little apple and mix it with the feed. We grind all our fruit and veg in a garden shredder (used solely for the pigs) and mix it with the feed. It was the best piggie investment we've made so far.

Regards,

Morgan
Title: Re: Apples
Post by: snowcloud on August 16, 2009, 09:44:21 pm
Mine were a bit picky to begin with too, just wanting their pig nuts and nothing else. My neighbor told me to chop stuff up the size of the pigs nuts and they soon get a taste for trying new stuff them. Mine eat all the apples I give them now... but I tend to keep it to about 7/8 a day.
Title: Re: Apples
Post by: daviddb on August 18, 2009, 09:17:44 pm
Apples? Luxury!

No spare apples to be had in our neck of the Pyrenees; we were cloud and mist bound for two weeks in May and pollinisation just didn't happen. Only one of seventeen trees is bearing a crop  and I think that one is a Gala/Fiest cross  so PigOne and PigTwo are just having to hang on in there until the walnut crop ( which is looking strong) comes on stream.....

regards

David
Title: Re: Apples
Post by: Muc on August 18, 2009, 09:30:39 pm
Weather permitting, I've been gathering free food for the pigs. Most popular are: dandelion leaves, haws, sea spinach, blackberries, tattered outer leaves from brassicas, comfrey. In half an hour I can put together quite a nice porcine salad.
Title: Re: Apples
Post by: Hilarysmum on August 19, 2009, 07:57:49 am
What a difference to the life of a factory farmed pig :pig:
Title: Re: Apples
Post by: Bodger on August 19, 2009, 02:55:40 pm
Whenever you lay your hands on a new food source, common sense dictates that you break your pigs into it gradually and build up the quantity slowly.

With pigs kept in an orchard, the apples will start to drop fairly slowly and infrequently at the start of the season, its natures way of doing what I've just described.

In addition to the odd bruised or manky apple, I'll be feeding my pigs the dry waste from my cider and apple juice making enterprise. The cheese ( mashed apples ) loses 70 t0 80% of its moisture at the end of the process. This apple waste will indeed start to ferment fairly quickly but this is where I have a cunning plan. :pig: This year, I intend bagging the apple waste and freezing it in handy lots and then defrosting some each and every day to feed the pigs with. This will be mixed with pig pellets and or rolled barley.
Now this is where the cunning plan becomes even more cunning. Eventually my freezer will be filled to the brim with bags of apple waste but as the pigs consume them, they are actually eating their way into the freezer. In this way, by the time the pigs are ready for the chop, there's going to plenty of freezer space for them. See ! I told you that it was a cunning plan. :)
Title: Re: Apples
Post by: sausagesandcash on August 19, 2009, 03:07:34 pm
He He He, bit like digging your own piggie grave  ;D
Title: Re: Apples
Post by: Bodger on August 19, 2009, 03:10:18 pm
Thats it exactly :) Unfortunately, its about as cunning as I get. :pig: