The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Pets & Working Animals => Dogs => Topic started by: muddyhill on September 11, 2013, 01:05:17 pm
-
We are thinking about getting a dog in the next year and trying to work out the best breed and way to go about it.
We have two cats, chickens, ducks and sheep, and hopefully some pigs shortly. We also have a 5 year old and a 2 year old, and to complicate matters further have holiday lets (Gypsy Wagons) and guests are allowed to bring well behaved dogs.
So whatever dog we get has to be able to cope with all of that!
I quite fancy a rescued greyhound/lurcher/whippet but my OH is concerned about getting a rescue dog and feels it would be getter to get a pup they we won't have concerns about it's history and we can train it and it will grow up used to the environment we have here (and he thinks greyhounds etc are too big).
So I know there will be lots of different opinions but I just wondered what people's experiences and advice were... :thumbsup:
-
I have a lurcher and wholeheartedly recommend them - they are totally and utterly fab! If you are keen on a rescue dog this rescue centre http://bristoldawg.webs.com/home.htm (http://bristoldawg.webs.com/home.htm) is superb and all dogs will have been tested for suitability with cats and children. My lurcher is 32" in height - a tall chap, but he can curl himself in to the smallest of balls when asleep! He is the most mild mannered and intelligent dog and although we do not have children and he has never been used to them, he is excellent when he does come in to contact with them.
We had our lurcher from the age of 8 weeks and he has therefore been taught to be around the sheep and horse etc and he will come out in the field off lead and sit with the sheep and let them nibble his fur!
You won't go far wrong with a lurcher as your chosen breed :thumbsup:
-
Well I am a Lab women, easy peasy :innocent:
BUT...there are some brilliant None KC pups that are crosses and make wonderful family pets.....maybe check your local rescue or go to a particular breed rescue...... :thumbsup:
-
I would not recommend a Brittany - far too specialized a breed.
-
Right, first of all well done for asking for help!!
I would put together what you want out of a dog, personality and looks wise then find a dog that fits your description.
1) it will need to be well socialised, to cope with new people lot s of coming and goings etc.
2) will need to have a low prey drive/chase drive because of animals.
3) energy levels as per how much exercise you can give.
Gu[size=78%]n dog breeds and crosses tend to have low prey/chase drives and are selected to friendliness and [/size]train-ability[size=78%]. [/size]
[size=78%]Terriers have high chase/prey drive but are out going and a good size. Can be [/size][/size]suborn[/size][size=78%] and not selected for handler focus.[/size]
[/size][size=78%]Sight hounds have a high prey/chase drive, can be sensitive/[/size][/size]nervous[/size][size=78%] and need careful socialisation. They are easy to [/size]exercise[size=78%] don't take up much room (even Greyhounds), are loyal and love to spend time with people.[/size]
[/size][size=78%]working breeds can have high exercise needs and can need a lot of mental stimulation.[/size]
[/size]Herding[/size][size=78%]/guarding [/size]breeds[size=78%] don't tend to cope with change well and can be noise sensitive. The can also direct their behaviours ([/size]herding[size=78%] and being over [/size]protective[size=78%]) to [/size]inappropriate[size=78%] things like kids etc.[/size]
[/size][size=78%]Personally I would get a gun dog/ or cross- like a Sprocker or Or [/size]Springer[size=78%]/Working Cocker. Get it at 8 weeks old from a good breeder who has bred it indoors and started socialising it. and make sure its well socialised- take to a good puppy [/size]social[size=78%] group and puppy training.[/size]
[/size][size=78%]Thanks my 2p worth![/size]
-
Sorry no idea what happened with my post!
-
:wave:
I think you are going to get many different answers ;D because we all have our favourites and what suits one does not suit another.
Have you kept dogs before? Some breeds are known to be more difficult to handle than others. Do lots of research. With young children, the temperament of the breed will be very important.
I love gundogs personally :love: and in your situation my thoughts would be to buy a pup. It will grow with you and your young family and you will know it's history and with good training and upbringing hopefully avoid problems.
I have always had Flatcoated Retrievers and they tend to be excellent with children. They are the Peter Pans of the dog world. My Flattie adores our children and there is not a bad bone in his body. However they tend to be VERY boisterous, very active and total extroverts and so can, especially the males, be difficult to handle. We now have a Labrador .... working line. They are generally thought of as good family dogs and tolerant of young children. In general they are easier to handle and calmer personalities.
My sister has cocker spaniels. Small, sweet but again very busy dogs.
You can read about all the breeds on their websites and even ring and speak to their breed secretaries etc. They should tell you the bad points of their breed as well as the good.
Have fun :excited:
-
I'm a German Shepherd fan :innocent:
But not sure that in your situation you'd want a GS - although they are great dogs they can be protective and intimidating to have running around compared to other breeds.
We've also had Labradors and Retrievers - both pretty much bullet proof round animals, kids and new people.
I'd agree that terriers of any sort will be inclined to chase chickens (my neighbours Jack Russell has killed a couple of hers) and could cause problems or worries if they take off after something.
In the hills make a good point - think about what you want from a dog ? How much experience of dogs you have and go from there. Every breed has it's plusses and minuses, and every dog owner will tell you theirs is best - and it is........for them ;)
Ditto that you'd be best to start with a pup too, but make it VERY clear to the kids that the dog is a member of the family and MUST be respected (not a toy for their amusement) that should make for a long and happy life together :thumbsup: My kids don't get smacked often, but harrassing a pet is a sure fire, bare bum spank :innocent:
Karen
-
My sister has cocker spaniels. Small, sweet but again very busy dogs
.
Any working breed will be the same - show cockers aren't so hyper - I know I bred them for 20 years before i got into these mad French things. The KC website is very informative if you want a pedigree, adn remember hybrid vigour does not apply to dog breeding
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/getting-a-dog-or-puppy/ (http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/getting-a-dog-or-puppy/)
-
well done for thinking it all through before committing.
A retriever type (either pure bred or cross) would fit the bill quite nicely as they don't have the urge to beggar off into the great unknown (unlike setters :-) ) and are usually fairly bomb proof.
I wouldn't be put off a rescue dog as long as you go to a GOOD rescue. If you feel you are being interviewed and that its not a done deal that you can have whichever dog you choose - then that is probably a good rescue. Adopters need closely matching with adoptee dogs. Don't go to stray kennels (pounds) as some will just take your money and let you have the most inappropriate dog! I can personally vouch for Black RetrieverX rescue as I have now fostered 2 dogs for them. Sadly puppies are very often found in rescues today - so you needn't have to get an older dog.
-
Yes Doganjo, my sisters cockers are from a working line and that is something else to maybe consider.
The breeders I contacted when searching for my current lab pup were all people that worked their dogs and competed at trial level. I obviously quizzed about temperament since although I intend to work my girl she will also be a house dog. One lady had started off with "show" line labs and commented that although she now preferred "working" line labs, she did think that in general the show/pet labs had less tendency to be "over-sensitive" or "nervy" around strangers than the working line.
Labradors, show or work line, tend to be biddable and adaptable. (Can someone just remind my 10 week old pup of this :innocent: ).
Illustrated perhaps by their many uses as eg. search and rescue, guide dogs, gundogs,
So ..... more to consider.
-
Here's another opinion to add to the many :)
I have a (rescue) staffie cross and he's a fantastic dog, a real piece of gold. And although this might seem an unlikely farm dog he is doing really well here since we moved out of town.
He is very intelligent and quite mellow at the same time, has learned not to chase cats nor chickens, respects hirses and cattle we meet out and about, and now learning to leave alone my newly arrived flock of sheep (I admit I wouldn't trust him alone with a flock of somebody else's sheep). He doesn't chase anything much, actually, hardly takes notice of squirrels or rabbits (but he's addicted to tennis balls) and can be very relaxed and patient too - while certainly active he is not hyper at all.
I don't have any kids, so can't comment on that, but staffies were once renowned for being good with children (hence called 'nannie dogs') and they are very focussed on their owners (less so on other dogs, mine prefers to be left alone by other dogs).
Of course, no two dogs of the same breed (or litter!) are the same, but staffies should not be discounted as family dogs :thumbsup:
You may not have the time to (re)train a rescue dog so for your situation a puppy whuich will grow with you and your family might be best, I agree with others here.
-
I wouldn't recommend Border Collies - they have no "off" switch. You could get one that's fine but I suspect there are better breeds for you.
I met a lovely Staffie on the bus the other day - what a sweetie he was :)
-
Its a case of what you like and suits your life, I love loads of breeds, in fact most dogs, I love Staffies and GSP's as well as Great Danes and Newfoundland's, then I love pugs and westies. and a lot of the new designer breeds......I have what suites me as I cannot run after a dog that pulls or runs off or is too hyper but we have room in the house, and I can trust our dogs with other children or dogs. Although 2 of our Labs are frantic active dogs, they hate being told off and so do nothing wrong anymore but if bored or left alone, a Lab and other big working dogs like GSP, can chew happily through a kitchen or sofa. I also think, small dogs = small damage and small toilet accidents, so therefore, big dogs, big damage and bigger accidents :innocent:
-
I wouldn't recommend Border Collies -
i wouldnt recommend terriers either til the youngest kiddie is 5 at least. we got a terrier pup and he is just fab as a walking companion for me but at 9 weeks old he bit my 10 yr old daughter quite badly and aggresively when he wanted her pasta ::) and we have to be careful about feeding times as he has been known to start a fight and not stop. its alot better now he has been neutered but he still needs watching. terriers dont tolerate rough handling in the way a labrador does. if you are getting a labrador - please - be alert to the health testing, our 8 yr old lab is very lame to elbow dysplacia, but is the most loving dog ever. they are perfect for families but can knock little kids over by accident in their enthusiasm.
our gsd is a very lovely family pet, we spent alot of time training and socialising her when she was young, and she has always been a bit daft. people/strangers are quite daunted by her size though, she has never shown any signs of aggression but is a bit batty :innocent:
we have a lhaso apso who is very lovely but incredibly jealous over affections. he has started a few fights over who was allowed to be stroked first, which left a permanent scar in my sons arm.
we had a lovely springer x collie as kids and she was a softy through and through :love:
wev tried to rehome a rescue dog but werent allowed as we have children under 12. its a shame. but on a positive a puppy can be moulded into what ever you want. essential when your kids are so young and you have animals.
our little dogs are much cheaper to feed and bed than the bigger ones, and often come out with us for the day, when we dont have room in the car for the bigger dogs, but they also manage to wiggle under gates and wander off.
-
Do remember though if you want to take on a puppy and to train it up you mustn't let the children allow the pup to do things that you are trying to stop it doing. It's a constant job watching children and puppies, although very rewarding too. When our children were small we chose a 2 years old show cocker bitch, very reliable, very soft natured, very obedient. The only problem was the typical cocker coat - but all that needed was regular brushing with the correct equipment while she sat on either my or Sandy's knee at night watching TV. :innocent:
-
Love the passion dogs bring out in people.
We have an airdale and she is the biggest soppiest thing, not a bad bone in her body but stubbon, perfectly controlled when out until she has a better idea and tries to make friends with that other dog on a lead and suffers selective deafness.
We also have a 5 month old black and white standard poodle, such a different animal, so quick to learn, still sweet natured but more interested in pleasing us than checking out any other dogs (so far) and where as both airdales we have had have gone through a destructive stage and the standard schnauzer we had shredded the sofa when tiny (we had to video it to believe it, blamed the airdale as the schnauzer was so tiny and young), the poodle hasn't even put holes in the teddy we gave her, (household insurance that covers dog damage has been used more than once).
My tip is not so much about the breed you get (although from my research I would suggest you seriously consider the labradoodle's or goldendoodles for nature and brains) but make a book up of the behaviour you want, i.e. no going on furniture, no teething on hands, shoes are not toys, to crate or not to crate (make it a place for treats not punishment so you have a time out space they like) etc. speak to others on their tips on gaining appropriate behaviour and make sure everyone in the house signs up to the list in the book, consistent boundaries etc early on can save soo much hassle later on.
Enjoy
K
-
how do you feel about dog hairs? after 10 yrs of being covered in gsd hairs (she moults all year round) the terrier and lhaso dont moult so that is a plus. they do need stripping and clipping though which is time consuming if you do it yourself or expensive if you send them to a groomer.
our lab drops his coat in a fortnight and thats it - done.
exciting stuff choosing a new dog. we spent months pouring over dog breed books and the internet dog home sites. enjoy :thumbsup:
-
I'd have a lab. Bombproof around kids, relatively straightforward to train. Easy coats. Everyone loves them cos they know how friendly they are.
Of the other breeds I have lived with:
Border collies - love 'em, but not right for the situation you describe.
German Shepherds - probably not, the right one would be great but there are plenty that are edgy, one-person dogs and folk can be scared of them, so not great for your visitors.
Spaniels - sweet but mad. Another possibility as long as you can give them plenty of exercise.
Retrievers - Goldens at least, I don't know flatcoats. Not the easy breed they seem to be. Landsharks til about 2, nowhere near as easy to train as labs.
Terriers - hard to train not to want to kill everything with fur or feathers. Of course some are more laidback than this but others....!
-
If anyone watched the gundog demo at Crufts this year I would say the main trainer in the ring had it about right.
You could train 3 labs to 2 goldies to 1 flattie.
Father always said the same when he trained gundogs.
Think it depends what you like in a dog. I had Flatties with young children and Flatties more than the other retrievers in many ways adore children ::) . It is their boisterous, forever puppy like behaviour that can cause problems however. They need lots of training but are real clowns and great fun .... if you like their big personalities.
-
I actually agree with the post that said a Staffie would be good. I feel bad that I didn't think of them! Bomb proof, good with kids friendly nice size wipe clean coat. Lots of pups 2nd hand. Or french bull dog-love them!
-
I actually agree with the post that said a Staffie would be good. I feel bad that I didn't think of them! Bomb proof, good with kids friendly nice size wipe clean coat. Lots of pups 2nd hand. Or french bull dog-love them!
Except when they meet another terrier and you get in the middle of a fight. Been there, don't want to go three again. No terriers EVER for me :rant:
-
No terriers EVER for me (http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/Smileys/default/rant.gif)
nor for me, we had the cutest patterdale/Lakeland but what a little sod he was.....they are tough dogs that will fight to kill other animals......
I also had a cross Rottweiler, I do loved him, never a bit of aggression but a tendency to get over excited if children squealed or ran, I am sure he would not have attacked them but I can see how some dogs do, also with my husband having no hair, he looked a thug with a dog that looked like an aggressive breed so we will stay away from any anti social breeds, as much as I love them
-
That was my thought on bull terriers. I saw a dog that had been attacked by one when I was doing work experience in a vets when I was 16. OMG :'( I can never trust them now and if I see one my dogs are straight on their leads and the owner asked to call their dog away. I know lots of dogs fight but the damage these can do :'( My reaction may not be entirely logical or rational but just by gut reaction now.
I do know there are lots of lovely ones out there. My father owned one as a lad and said that she was one of the best dogs he had .... old Bess. ;D Still talks fondly of her but keeps his dogs away from them too.
-
2 dog breeds I am very fond of are, Great Danes and Pugs......maybe one day I will have a little pug to dress up.....always been a Great Dane fan but they are rather big!
-
always been a Great Dane fan but they are rather big!
And they don't live long. 7 or 8 is average I believe
-
I know they have shorter lifes than most dogs but I may too, who knows? hope not, I want to be around to get a cake and loads of candles and a card from Alex Salmond :roflanim: :roflanim:
-
Wow! What a response. Thank you for all taking the time to reply, its definitely provided lots of food for thought and really useful ideas. I have a friend whose mother-in-law breeds Labradoodles and they do seem nice, and I love labs.
Think we will keep thinking and not rush anything, I think there will only be benefit if my littlest is a bit older, though both my girls are very respectful of animals it would probably be less stressful for a dog to have a 3 yr old around than a 2 yr old.
We did live with a wonderful lab/ great dane x which was very lovely tempered though enormous!! I think in my ideals world rescue puppy would be best but we'll see what happens and keep researching... and obviously keep you posted!
-
Check that your friend's M I L health tests her dogs - both Labradors and Poodles carry eye, hip and elbow inherited diseases. They should be checked and cleared for ALL of these! And remember Labradoodles do NOT breed to type so you can end up with anything - hairy, smooth, curly, big, small, long, short, good tempered or just pure ratty.
-
we have a Lab and a Border Terrier, my parents have the same and there Border Terrier is amazing with my sisters kids, to the extent that the border and 2 year old are like double trouble together where one goes the other follows, and labs well they are just amazing and sure Happygolucky will back me up there haha
-
:thumbsup:
-
Wouldn't recommend Dalmatians. We got one for reasons unconnected with small holding, she is fine with kids and runs beautifully next to a bike (presumably also horse/carriage but we don't have one!) However, loves to 'play' with the sheep (never quite sure if she's rounding them up or hunting them!), has killed a couple of suicidal chickens (one jumped out of the pen into her mouth, literally), although did leave the pigs alone largely, I suspect because they tricked her with the electric fence. On a more positive note she has killed a couple of rats/rabbits. In fact I remember reading a list of working traits that a prospective owner might find annoying, only to find she had most of them! Great character, but not an easy dog to have around!
-
Well having just had a camper's dog savage one of our ducks :'( we certainly aren't getting a rott/retriever cross, too big and powerful dog for me I think.
(Just to add, I know the dog was just being a dog and don't hold it responsible but the experience is 'informing' our decision!)
-
And all breeds are probably capable of that kind of thing. A lot of it is down to training and being in control.
Retrievers are usually not that interested in bigger stock but may have a twinkle in their eye where poultry are concerned. Labs are usually pretty biddable though and so easily trained and then ignore poultry. All dogs are bred for a purpose and gundogs in general are interested in poultry in a different way to how a terrier maybe interested. The terrier may want to catch and kill whereas a gundog will probably just want to carry .... it has a different instinct.
All dog breeds will need more work put into them as pups and young dogs if you have other species around, whether it be cats, sheep, poultry and so on.
-
Our neighbours cat sits watching our chickens and I told our dogs to chase her off but did they? NO, they just took the opportunity to sniff around for Hen droppings....I could leave our dogs in with livestock no problem but then they would happily kill a wild rabbit or similar wild creature!!I was thinking, Labradors always appear in a good mood....
-
My lab is a Gundog she will happily bring back all sorts of game bird but has never touched any of our hens.
-
same here Garvie...one of our hens used to go to where our dogs are and the dogs looked embarrassed ....
-
My springer spaniel tries very hard to please but is wired to the moon regardless of how much exercise he gets. He's such a happy dog, but a bit waring not having an off switch. Maybe if I'd had him as a puppy rather than a mess of a rescue dog it would have been better?
I couldn't recommend a terrier. Between me, my mum and mother in law, I've had/been close to seven jack russel or jr X. I've really loved some of those little dogs, but they all had faults, only one of the seven is really a good pet.
If I were you, think I'd go lab, even though I've not had one myself, I've always admired my friends labs. I love German shepherds, but might bit too intimidating to your visitors?
-
:wave:
I think that choosing a dog if a very difficult thing (and a great commitment) as I have been going through the same thing myself for 6 weeks to find the right companion for my greyhound.
Over the past 15 years I've had rescue Staffie X, Lab X, Greyhound and I now have a young Lab.
The staffie X was great in the end. He was about 3 years old when we picked him up, but very protective, needed a lot of socialization to sort out his issues and needed to be neutered and shown who was in charge for about six months. He became the most loyal friend to my previous partner that could have ever been known. He could tell when he was about to have a fit or if his blood sugar was low and come tell me! He was never trained to do that, he just choose to.
My lab X was almost perfect! Hardly needed training at all. She was great with everything except kids and whining in the car. I was pretty sure that she was dumped out of a car and treated badly by children. When I picked her up from the pound, all I knew about her was that she was spayed. No history, no age (she was between 3 and 5), nothing. First few nights she kept escaping out of my yard. I realised she had been trained to only pee and poo on grass! I miss her greatly.
My greyhound was just 2 when we got her. She was afraid of everything (including us!). She took 12 months of work to stop her peeing, pooing, chewing, panicking etc. She is now (5 years later) a well adjusted love bucket! She is still nervy of strangers standing over her, but as soon as they sit down she is all over them for fuss and kisses! She is great with cats and chickens, but needs to be watched if there are other animals running round! She "picks up" birds who are not in their own area (one of the ducks yesterday) but just holds them till we come over! She gets excited when the pigs or sheep run around, but she has no prey drive, just wants to play!
We adopted a chocolate lab last Friday! She has a great temperament and is settling well. Both our greyhound and two cats have no problems with her. Bad points so far are that she wants to play with everything.. ducks, sheep, chickens, phones, cat bowls, anything wooden, table cloths, blankets, plastic on chairs.. this list is endless! She chews anything hard and does have a habit of mouthing us when playing. I have now managed to dog-proof the kitchen for when we go out and we supply both the dogs with toys and hide chews. I am sure that with training and time she will become a great addition to our family.
What I am trying to illustrate is that every dog will need your time, energy and patience to become the dog you want. Find the right basics (temperament, energy level, etc) but be aware that you will need to nurture it, so that it will become the dog you want! Whether a puppy or an adult, these issues may well need to be dealt with and doing it in the right way will create exactly what you need.
-
What I am trying to illustrate is that every dog will need your time, energy and patience to become the dog you want. Find the right basics (temperament, energy level, etc) but be aware that you will need to nurture it, so that it will become the dog you want! Whether a puppy or an adult, these issues may well need to be dealt with and doing it in the right way will create exactly what you need.
What a perfect illustration, people cannot expect to get a dog and it turn into something amazing if its not brought up properly or given time!! :thumbsup:
-
Do's and Don'ts of Buying a Puppy - Puppy Awareness Week 2013 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEh66GLN3So#)
-
What I am trying to illustrate is that every dog will need your time, energy and patience to become the dog you want. Find the right basics (temperament, energy level, etc) but be aware that you will need to nurture it, so that it will become the dog you want! Whether a puppy or an adult, these issues may well need to be dealt with and doing it in the right way will create exactly what you need.
Great post Raine, this really sums it up beautifully!
:bow:
-
I think that sums it up, (said so much better than me).
The nature nurture thing, one give you the basics to work with, the other gives you results from the work you put in.
K
-
Good on you for thinking a head muddyhill .
The dog ought to be considered part of the family 24/7 it can make life difficult but in the end it's usually the best way you get a dog you adapt the family to suit .
One thing I feel might pay you dividends is for the adults & teen agers in your family ( if any ) is to go to a set of dog training classes just to see what's what to get yourself trained . That way what ever dog you get you'll have a fair bit of knowledge of how to treat and train it .
If it's like the dog classes my wife attended you'll also see what not to do and how not to bugger up a dog so you win all the way to the walkies.
Think up of a set of actions and commands you want the dog to work to , type them out and print several copies so that every family member can consult them and learn them before you get your dog that way every one will be singing from the same hymn sheet and not end up confusing the dog.
Bitches are usually much easier to train than dogs even if the dogs are neutered.
If you must have a dog get him" chopped" as soon as you can so that he is not used to experiencing the testosterone spikes that will rage through his body he'll tend to be les head strong as a consequence .
I offer that if you can have your animal with you 24/7 ( but not on the bed ) for as long as possible the bond between you will be very strong.
-
Lots of good advice there :thumbsup:
I'm not sure I agree that bitches are easier to train, though - some are very sensitive and it isn't everyone who can manage a dog like that. (I know you get sensitive males too, but it's one of they bell-curve thingies, innit. ;))
-
I offer that if you can have your animal with you 24/7 ( but not on the bed ) for as long as possible the bond between you will be very strong.
with all our dogs we have deliberately left the dogs on their own in an effort to avoid separation anxiety.
all our dogs sleep in a separate room at night and always have done from puppyhood. now we have 4 dogs they share the same room but even when we had 1 dog we made time to leave them for an hour or so during the day aswell. our lab and gsd would follow you to the end of the earth but they are equally happy being left behind. by happy i mean they arent distressed or destructive and can switch off to sleep.
i agree making the effort in the first year especially is really important. we plan our weekends around our pup so we joined the NT and take him with us etc. try and do everything, trains, buses, cities, countryside, it really teaches them an awful lot.