The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: MrsJ on August 06, 2009, 01:32:35 pm
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We have a lamb who had what looked like scabs around it's mouth yesterday. We tried to catch it but it's a slippery little blighter. Now the mouth looks very sore. One of our group thought it might be Orf but I dont know where it's come from. One thought it might be because there are a lot of thistles and brambles where they graze. I have read that there is a Tubby that seems to prevent Orf (if it is that) but don't know where to get it from. The website seems to give lots of info but no stockists or price - has anyone used these?
any advice would be appreciated.
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If the orf is not around the nose or eyes I would recommend a spray called bactikill. spray twice over a period of a week and it should clear fairly quickly. We have used the tubby thing I forget which one was for orf. the main problem was that not all the lambs would eat it so some would still get it.
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my friend had orf, contracted from some hurdles. He used septi-clense and it worked very quickly. Be careful to use gloves though as it is transferable to humans.
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Orf is sort of a right of passage for sheep - they will be more likely to pick it up if there are thistles as tiny punctures from the prickles give an entry site for the virus. Once they have got it there is nothing you can do to make it clear up quicker - it will go in 14 days time. What you an do is prevent secondary infection - as hexamesure says baktakill is excellent, especially if you don't want your sheep to all have blue/purple noses. If they only have tiny orf lesions, sudocreme is pretty good aswell and helps hair grow back quite quickly.
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intrigued - whats the 'tubby thing'?!
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Thanks for the advice. Caught the little blighter last night and gave him a shot of antibiotics.
Tubby's are buckets of nutrients. this is their website http://www.brinicombe.co.uk/agriculture/products/animal_health/tubby.php (http://www.brinicombe.co.uk/agriculture/products/animal_health/tubby.php) I saw them recomended in a book but haven't tried them yet.
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Hi i got orf once when i got cut on a tooth when we were dosing the lambs, ruddy sore!
I was told it was a viral type of infection (similar to warts) which starts on the infected ewes udder and is picked up by the lambs when they suckle, i think their is a vaccine for it though, its also a notifiable disease, was picked up by the environmental officer when i sold a lamb at market with orf, that was a long time ago so things could have changed by now.
Mandy
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Its not a notifiable disease - its very common.
It doesn't necessarily start on the ewes udders, in fact it often goes from the lambs to the ewes.
There is a vaccine for it, but unless you have serious annual problems with orf it is probably not necessary. If you guard against secondary infection they will get over it very quickly and they will only get it once.
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VSS is spot on, its certainly not a notifiable disease, it does make me wonder where people get there information from and I certainly wouldn't have taken a lamb to market with orf!! If you haven't got a serious problem with it don't vaccinate, its a live virus and a horrible little sod!!
We have a good success with Ovaloid Capsules they can be given to both ewes and lambs, we give the lamb two capsules, then we spray the area with Terramycin spray and for good measure give a jab of long acting Terramycin or similar, its a bit "belt and braces" but it saves me having to keep inspecting the ewes/lambs.
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If the lamb is really young and was bottle fed powdered milk,
it could be a rash from that, which is very common with pet lambs
Sudocrem will clear it up in a few days.
Julie
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Thanks everyone - Ovaloids it is then. It wasn't a bottle fed lamb and we had no problems last year so dont know where the Orf is coming from but we have a second one with it now (my favourite lamb - he's so friendly and nosey!).
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Antibiotics wont cure Orf because its a virus, but help prevent secondary bacterial infections,the best spray is one containing Gentian Violet imho, as it dries up the crusts.
A friend of mine had Orf on his finger and kept getting asked to show it to med students in Oxford where he lived!!!
It looks horrible but isnt life thtreatening unless the lamb cant suckle, keep an eye on their body score.
Also watch out for mastitis in the ewes.
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Hi,
Thought I would bring this topic to the fore again.
For some time the best (and some would say the only) way to treat Orf was with ovaloid capsules. However, there is now a choice of products with the introduction of Orph Paste by Net Tex. Which from test results seems to have good effects in around about 5 - 7 days.
Thanks
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Hi SfS. What are the active ingredients of the Orf Paste?
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The main active ingredient in most EFFECTIVE orf remedies is sulphur. The most permanent and cheapest solution for orf that I have come across is to buy flowers of sulphur from the chemist and mix ir with an equal ammount of salt. Allow the sheep free access to this till a couple of weeks after all signs of the orf have gone. I have had orf in my sheep twice in 25 years (from bought in pet lambs. It was 100% effective both times. Don't bother vaccinating. It's a waste of time.
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Hi SfS. What are the active ingredients of the Orf Paste?
Hi,
Sorry for the delay, a motorist took down all our phone lines over the weekend, so no internet either.
The Active ingredients: 1,5 pentanedial in a petroleum based soft emollient cream. Each 200g gives approx 100 applications and is applied to the sores. In the trials a single application appeared to clear up sores in around 5 - 7 days.
Thanks
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is orf just found on sheep?
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Hi,
No - Its a type of viral infection - people can catch it as well off infected sheep.
If anyone is interested I will post some Pics and the trial report on my site - but be warned some of the links to pictures of bad cases of orf are pretty grusome.
Thanks
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Hi S f S, I'm not decrying your 2,5 pentanedial, but when you have a flock of 100 sheep+ it is not practical to check them all for orf scabs, let alone apply it. The sulphur + salt allows them all to treat themselves and ensures it does not recurr. Applying an ointment may cure those you see at any one time, but not does stop it affecting the rest. Once you have got orf it can spread throughout the flock for the next few months unless you treat them all at the same time. In addition, you do not want to be handling sheep with orf because, like you say, it can be caught by humans. I know - I've had it.
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Hi,
All Im doing is offering an alternative by way of a newly launched product that can be used as and when required.
I posted the report if anyone wants to download and have a read about orf, the pics in the report are OK but there are links in the text that lead to pics of some pretty nasty cases of orf - be warned!
anyway, link is here: http://www.suppliesforsmallholders.co.uk/orph_paste.doc (http://www.suppliesforsmallholders.co.uk/orph_paste.doc) Ill leave it there for a week or so then remove it.
Thanks
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Have looked at your link and I am impressed by the speed at which your product clears up the sores. However, the link does stress that this is a very infectious virus and I still maintain that you need to treat all your sheep once you have an outbreak; and sulphur + salt is the easiest way of preventing it spreading. It would appear that a combination of both treatments is probably the ultimate solution, in particular where you have few sheep affected but a large flock that could potentially catch it.
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Hi,
Can I just say its not my product - its by Net Tex. Im just bringing it to the attention of the forum users.
Thanks
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I got orf last year and the only thing to clear it up was a herbal thingy called Thuja occidentalis - this is a pine extract. You buy it as a tincture and can either dab it on directly or add it to the water to give everyone a little of it. I found an article on it last year from Farmers weekly or something along those lines.
Worked for me - make sure you a fully gloved if you are handling lambs with it as the slightest scratch is an open invite to this little bug.
It could be that it is just in your soil and barn and in a period of stress (which for sheep is everyday life) it can flare up - its a bit like cold sores in that respect.
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Forgot to say - you can vaccinate against it too, but that means possibly introducing it to animals which do not have it.
Pros and cons either way - I try to isolate infected animals and ensuring they are boosted with mutli vitamins and it usually clears fairly quickly.
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We're going to try using 'scabivax' this year as we've had lambs with orf for the last three years. Zinc ointment does help heal it but prevention is better than cure.
Anyone used scabivax before? We're going to use it on the ewes next week when we worm and 'covexin' them.
:sheep:
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Yes I've tried it and didn't find it much good. Still got orf recurring . What does treat all your animals with minimum stress (to all) AND stops it recurring is to mix equal quantities of sulphur (from chemist) and salt. Leave it out for sheep to help themselves. Have mentioned it earlier on this post. It's a very old cure, but trust me - it works.
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HI,i wanted to know how much sulphur you would need for 100ewes also how much it costs ruffly. do you ad it to their feed or just mixed in a separate tub. the problem we have is that 50ewes have lambed and are no turned out around half of them and their lambs are infected the vet is advising scratching them and all new lambs,we have another 50 to be brought in to lamb but are luckily borrowing a friends shed as hoping they will not then catch it so wanted to know more about the sulphur and salt. also if we disinfect should we be safe for next year and what can we do about the sheep to stop having it next year and year after. any feed back much appreciated
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we lambed for the fisrt time last year and at about 3 months the lambs got orf teated with terimicine spray and it cleared up maybe on its own spoke to the vet the other day and hes sending use some scabivax this year
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Hi Welshie79 - can't remember how much you use as it's some years since I've had orf now.
However, you buy it from the chemist as Flowers of Sulphur, mix with a roughly equal quantity of salt and leave it in a seperate container to the feed. They'll eat it readily because of the salt. Keep replenishing it till there's no more signs of orf.
I definitely would not vaccinate as it's a live vaccine and you then have the potential of the scabs dropping off and leaving a reservoir of the virus for next year. The sulphur seems to kill the virus entirely and you don't get a re-occurence in following years unless you have introduced a fresh source of infection.
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I caught Orf last year and it was dreadful! Does anyone know if it can recurr spontaneously like coldsores? My little finger has that mix of MADDENINGLY ITCHY/painful which i am afraid might be a recurrence? (i haven't begun lambing yet)
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I got it once, many years ago, and it never recurred. I assumed it was like smallpox and that once infected you were then immune. I actually didn't find it painful, just itchy, but it got infected and the redness started spreading up my arm so I had to go to the doctor and get some antibiotics.
However, I would google it if I were you and get the full tale as expressed by the "experts".
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This:
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1133450-overview#a3 (http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1133450-overview#a3)
says "patients ... must also be informed that recurrences may occur but generally result in lesions that are less pronounced than the primary infection." and this:
https://www.cdc.gov/poxvirus/orf-virus/animals.html (https://www.cdc.gov/poxvirus/orf-virus/animals.html)
says "Animals can become infected more than once in their lifetime but repeat infections usually occur after a year's time and are generally less severe."
Other sources suggest that this could be because the antibodies produced are not great at preventing re-infection (as opposed to limiting the severity/duration of a re-infection).
However this wouldn't look to be a spontaneous recurrence (like say shingles) but a re-infection, but since the references mention that the virus can stay active in the environment for months on inert objects it would seem quite feasible to be re-exposed without knowing about it (i.e. not just from contact with a symptomatic animal).
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I believe that in theory you should be immune having had it once - but like all these things, the bugs don't read the books...