The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: Muc on August 05, 2009, 11:48:44 pm
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Just curious. Why are the major religions of the world so anti-pig? The Koran forbids Muslims to eat pork and the Bible similarly forbids its adherents - Jews and Christians (though the latter disregard it).
I suppose the prohibitions come from the one text or custom originally as these religions all originated in the same area. But it is bizarre, considering pigs are so valuable to people struggling to feed themselves, and such clean animals, regardless of what the holy books say.
Does anyone know if the religions of the east have similar problems with the pig?
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I think it is because the pig in those days would have been scavengers (dont think shellfish is on the menu for same reason) whereas goats, cows etc graze. Just a guess. Then again they dont know what they are missing!!! Although I have an e-friend who is muslim and breeds GOS pigs (Canada) and had a Jewish friend who loved my pigs.
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The reasons are many and varied and we can only speculate several millennia on. The eating of pig's flesh is forbidden in Leviticus in the Old Testament which strongly influences Judaism but is much less important than the New Testament to Christian religions. The pig specifically is said to be unclean both in the Koran and the Bible. HM is quite right that it may be much to do with its scavenging nature, (pigs roaming the streets pre-sewage times would eat faeces etc as part of their rubbish clearing duties). However, chickens too are scavengers but are not outlawed and rabbits aren't but they are (outlawed).
Pigs were also believed in times past to be the cause of leprosy which made them untouchable to the ancient Egyptians. They were also the chosen stock of the settled farmer whereas most influence in biblical times seems to have been with the nomadic herdsmen who kept sheep, cattle and goats and who despised the setlled farmers as they interrupted their grazing habits.
All of these things served to mitigate against the pig. The ancient Chinese emporers rejected the Muslim faith becuase they could not concieve of keeping the huge population of China content without the ability to feed on pigs which were so much more efficient in producing meat then other species.
On a practical level, I was in Sharjah in the UAE on business in the late 1970s and my host thought it would be jolly clever to procure some roast pork for my Sunday lunch and we sat on the verandah of a Club eating this meal in 40 deg+ and it was quite revolting. How the pig had been raised I don't know but it was greasy and generally unpleasant and in that moment I could quite understand why they didn't eat pork in the Middle East!
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taking a superficial look at the "rules" of most religions shows them up to be an utter nonsense. the cultists are best ignored! Let them get with their own lives and hopefully they'll let us get on with ours (though historic evidence suggests they won't)
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I was once arrested in Kuwait airport for bringing in 30lbs of smoked back bacon for the guys that I worked with in Iraq. They tried for over an hour to find a non-Muslim airport worker to take it away (they wouldn't touch it). In the end they made me put it into a bin,gutted!!! Then,2 weeks later I went to dinner at the house of the ex-head of secret police for Basra,and was served trotters. This from a man who became a very close friend and tried his hardest to convert me to Islam. Oh,and also,one can drink alcohol in Iraq,but not in Kuwait. Although I did hear whispers that the new king of Kuwait was thinking about licensing laws for hotels before I left in '06.
I've worked for many an Arab,the head of finance for the Saudi govt a Prince,the guy that built the only 7star hotel and many others,and when not in their own country will regulary gamble drink and allow their daughters to dress in Western (revealing) clothing,it's all hypocritical if ya ask me! .....Ree
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Some religious groups wont eat rabbit either because it too is classed as an unclean animal.
Rabbits actually eat their food twice. They digest, poop it and then eat it again.
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Rabbits actually eat their food twice. They digest, poop it and then eat it again.
And not so long ago chickens were fed chicken faeces because chickens waste a lot of their food first time around!
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Pigs surely don't eat their own faeces, do they?
I wonder what the DEFRA regs would say.
Mr Ree, that is interesting about no one handling the bacon, as the Bible (and I presume the Koran) also forbids touching the carcass. I found this while Googling:
"The swine, as he divideth the hoof, and be cloven footed, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcass shall ye not touch, they are unclean to you.; Leviticus chapter 11 verse 7 and 8.
Lots of Christians going to Hell I reckon.
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Lots of Christians going to Hell I reckon.
I hope they save room for me!!!
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If anyone is interested these are the 'reasons' Christians eat pork (and other unclean foods), I don't know much about other reasons other than Jews believe Jesus was a prohet (as I understand it, I may be wrong) and therefore disregard the NT and that's why they live by the OT teachings.
In the Old Testament God lists foods that are unclean and shouldn't been eaten and are unfit to sacrifice to him.
Then in the New Testament Paul has a vision (Acts 11:4-10) that is it interpreted as meaning that because of Jesus' death on the cross (and resurrection), sacrifices were no longer needed as Jesus was the final sacrifice and faith in Him was the only way man could be pure before God. It was no longer necessary for God's people to live by these strict rules. therefore that which was unclean is now clean. God says 'Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.' This is further reiterated in And again in Matthew 15:16-20
"Don't you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.' For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what make a man 'unclean'; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him 'unclean.' " "
However, this interpretation is open to some debate and some branches of Christianity, eg Seventh Day Aventists, still do not eat those foods originally deemed unclean.
I guess with everything you can view the bible as a moral code and it was written so long ago in terminology so alien to us npw that any interpretation is open to speculation. I personally try to live a Christian life, and struggle and fail often, but that is my choice and I don't force it onto others. As has been said before on here, we are all just trying to live our lives as best we can and treat others with the respect we ourselves would want. We have to be comfortable with our lifestyle choices or we won;t stick to them.
So anyway, I have yet again babbled on far longer than I was intending, sorry,
Helen
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i was on the understanding that it was
a ) the nearest to human flesh (if burnt humans smell of pork, apparently)
b) something to the point that the devil had cloven hoves like a pig (but i have faige reasoning of goat legs )
just what i can remember which isn't a lot at the moment . back to my knitting
Linz
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Old Nick has goats legs. ;D
Now I have never eaten goat, perhaps thats why ??? :-\
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look what i found
List of Biblically Clean and Unclean Foods
Clean foods are those which in their natural state do not harm the human body and which man can use for his nourishment. Unclean foods are those which are unhealthy to consume and are poisonous to the body. The Bible discusses the topic of what foods are good and bad for Man to eat in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14.
Clean Land Animals
Antelope Deer
(Venison) Goat Ox
Bison
(Buffalo) Elk Hart Reindeer
Caribou Gazelle Ibex Sheep
(Lamb, Mutton)
Cattle
(Beef, Veal) Giraffe Moose
Clean Birds
Chicken Grouse Pigeon Sparrow
(and other songbirds)
Dove Guinea fowl Prairie chicken Swan *
Duck Partridge Ptarmigan Teal
Goose Peafowl Quail Turkey
Pheasant Sagehen
* Please note that the word "Swan" listed in the King James Version Bible translation of Leviticus 11:18 is a mistranslation. Swans are clean birds. Translations such as The Jewish Publication Society version renders the word in question as "horned owl."
Clean Insects
Types of locusts that may include crickets and grasshoppers
Clean Fish
Albacore
(Crevalle, Horse Mackerel, Jack) Hardtail
(Blue Runner) Mullet Shad
Alewives
(Branch / River Herring) Herring
(Alewife, Branch / Glut / Lake / River / Sea Herrings) Muskellunge
(Jacks) Sheepshead
Anchovy Kingfish Orange Roughy Silver Hake
(Whiting)
Barracuda Long Nose Sucker
(Northern or
Red Striped Sucker) Perch
(Bream) Silversides
Bass Common Sucker
(Fresh Water Mullet,
White Sucker) Pike
(Pickerel, Jack) Smelt
(Frost or Ice Fish)
Black Drum Crappie
(Black / White Crappies) Pig Fish Snapper
(Ebu, Jobfish, Lehi,
Onaga, Opakapaka, Uku)
Black Pomfret
(Monchong) Drum Pollack
(Pollock,
Boston Bluefish) Snook
(Gulf Pike)
Blue Runner
(Hardtail) Flounder
(Dab, Gray / Lemon Sole,
Summer / Winter Flounder,
Yellow Tail) Pompano Sole
Bluebacks
(Glut Herrings) Grouper
(Black / Nassau / Red /
Yellowfish Grouper, Gag) Red Horse Sucker
(Redfin) Spanish Mackerel
Bluebill Sunfish Grunt
(White / Yellow Grunts) Red Snapper Steelhead
Bluefish Gulf Pike
(Robalo, Snook, Sergeant) Redfish Striped Bass
Bluegill Haddock Robalo
(Gulf Pike) Sucker
(Red Horse Sucker, Redfin)
Bonitos Hake Porgy
(Scup) Sunfish
Bowfin Halibut Red Drum
(Redfish) Tarpon
Buffalofish Hardhead Rockfish Trout
(Gray Sea, Lake,
Sand Sea, White Sea,
Spotted Sea Trouts, Weakfish)
Butterfish Mackerel
(Cobia) Salmon
(Chum, Coho, King,
Pink or Red)
Tuna
(Ahi, Aku, Albacore,
Bluefin, Bonito,
Shipjack,Tombo,
Yellowfin, Yellowtail)
Carp Mahimahi
(Dorado, Dolphinfish
[not the mammal dolphin]) Sardine
(Pilchard) Turbot
(except European turbot)
Chubs
(Bloater,
Longjaw, Blackfin) Menhaden Scup
(Porgy) Whitefish
Cod Minnow Sea Bass Whiting
(Silver Hake)
Sergeant Fish
(Gulf Pike) Yellow Perch
Unclean Land Animals
Swine
Boar, Peccary, Pig (hog, bacon, ham, lard, pork)
Canines Equines Felines
Coyote Ass Cat
Dog Donkey Cheetah
Fox Mule Leopard
Hyena Horse Lion
Jackal Onager Panther
Wolf Zebra
(quagga) Tiger
Other
Armadillo Kangaroo Rat
Badger Llama
(alpaca, vicuņa) Rhinoceros
Bear Mole Skunk
Beaver Monkey Slug
Camel Mouse Snail
(escargot)
Elephant Muskrat Squirrel
Gorilla Opossum Wallaby
Groundhog Porcupine Weasel
Hare Rabbit Wolverine
Hippopotamus Raccoon Worm
Unclean Insects
All insects except some in the locust family.
Unclean Birds
Albatross Eagle Magpie Roadrunner
Bat Flamingo Osprey Sandpiper
Bittern Grebe Ostrich Seagull
Buzzard Grosbeak Owl Stork
Condor Gull Parrot Swallow
Coot Hawk Pelican Swift
Cormorant Heron Penguin Vulture
Crane Kite Plover Water Hen
Crow Lapwing Rail Woodpecker
Cuckoo Loon Raven
Unclean Reptiles and Amphibians
Reptiles Amphibians
Alligator Blindworm
Caiman Frog
Crocodile Newt
Lizard Salamander
Snake Toad
Turtle
Unclean Fish and Marine Animals
Fish Shellfish Soft Body Sea mammals
Bullhead Abalone Cuttlefish Dolphin
Catfish Clam Jellyfish Otter
Eel Crab Limpet Porpoise
European turbot Crayfish Octopus Seal
Marlin Lobster Squid
(calamari) Walrus
Paddlefish Mussel Whale
Shark Prawn
Stickleback Oyster
Squid Scallop
Sturgeon
(includes most caviar) Shrimp
Swordfish
a list of what you can and can' t eat according to the bible
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All a load of medieval superstition!
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I'll have to stop surfing the net. Just found this gem:
"The pig is the most shameless animal on the face of the earth. It is the only animal that invites its friends to have sex with its mate. It feels no jealousy. And among people who consume pork, the practice of wife swapping and other forms of promiscuous behaviour is common."
(The auther is the president of Islamic Research Foundation, Mumbai. http://www.irf.net)
I better not show this to Mrs Muc.
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lol so funny :pig: :pig: :pig: :pig: :pig: :pig: :pig: :pig: :pig: :pig: :pig: :pig: :pig: :pig: :pig: :pig: :pig: :pig:
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I'll have to stop surfing the net. Just found this gem:
"The pig is the most shameless animal on the face of the earth. It is the only animal that invites its friends to have sex with its mate. It feels no jealousy. And among people who consume pork, the practice of wife swapping and other forms of promiscuous behaviour is common."
(The auther is the president of Islamic Research Foundation, Mumbai. http://www.irf.net)
I better not show this to Mrs Muc.
of course they don't need to wife swap. If they fancy another woman they just divorce their first wife by saying " I divorce thee " 3 times and hey presto it's all legal and above board
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Rabbits actually eat their food twice. They digest, poop it and then eat it again.
And not so long ago chickens were fed chicken faeces because chickens waste a lot of their food first time around!
Big difference Hills ! rabbits do it by choice. :) and forget saving me some space in hell, just make sure they save me some bacon :pig:
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Not eating pork/pig for religious reasons is common sence.
Most religions, muslim, jewish and early christianity were 'developed' in hot climets. Pork/pig meat can go off very quickly and is one of the few meats that can poison people if not kept cool.
In later days when christianity became the chosen religion in europe/UK we pagens already ate pork. Due to our milder climet it was safer to eat.
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But in these days of refrigeration they just dont know what they are missing.
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I'll have to stop surfing the net. Just found this gem:
"The pig is the most shameless animal on the face of the earth. It is the only animal that invites its friends to have sex with its mate. It feels no jealousy. And among people who consume pork, the practice of wife swapping and other forms of promiscuous behaviour is common."
(The auther is the president of Islamic Research Foundation, Mumbai. http://www.irf.net)
I better not show this to Mrs Muc.
Whoever wrote this did not keep pigs - we have four boars and they would kill each other over their ladies if we let them - we keep them well apart.
Our saddleback boar froths at the mouth and warns Joe off if his girls are standing for him - I cannot see our boar sharing his girls with his friends - he is really jealous. ;D ;D ;D
Julie
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Re the 'hot climate' theory. Surely chicken would be much more dangerous than pork and yet all the religions give chicken their blessing ;D
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Maybe they found it easier to catch a chicken than a pig ::)
Julie