The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: smudger on August 25, 2013, 10:29:11 pm
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In dealing with the pink eye I failed to pick up that a ram lamb was maggoty until we got him into sheds tonight. We have hand sheared off almost half his (lovely :'( ) fleece and he is almost completely blue from either the crovet or the antisceptic spray on the open wounds. Much as I hate to admit I suspect he's been like this for days and I missed it. The good news is he has drunk and eaten and now lying down/ resting not hunched up. So what next without overdosing him:
He's had:
1. Crovect (is it possible to overdose? we were quite liberal when we discovered hundreds 'emerging' from his flesh after we had removed the surface ones and his fleece)
2. Rycoben yesterday and combinex tonight (before flystrike found)
3. Combivit injection tonight
4. Cobalt/ selenium drench yesterday
5. LA alamycin a/b yesterday
An old post mentioned ivermectin injection to get rid of any residual maggots in the flesh - ok after all the other wormers? Or leave it a few days? (we have it, which is why it would be easy to do). Ditto coopers spot on - I have a bit left from last year but not a fresh bottle.
Treating the wounds - they have had the a/b blue spray but should they be washed then spray reapplied tomorrow or something else. I usually use sudocream on my horses (but I don't eat them, so may be unconventional). Maggot oil (don't have) / vaseline (do have) mentioned as well.
Combivit - repeat daily for a few days till he is more sprightly?
(he isn't vaccinated by the way).
Final question - will the carcase be damaged by the flystrike or will it 'repair' and in what time scale? The patches of flystrike were about 2" in max diameter and probably a dozen over the rear quarters. he wasn't for breeding but after his cocktail of drugs he wont be going anywhere soon (if he lives, hopefully). Homekill only?
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Id have given it crovect and an antibiotic.
If it eats/wants to fight me when I get in its pen or whatever, I keep going, lf it lies around looking forlorn, Id shoot it.
Of course, as soon as it is better, and of weight, send it to cull. :P
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Yes apparently you can OD with Crovect, although when you see those horrid things humphling off into the fleece the temptation is to pour the entire bottle on :P
I wouldn't use Spot On at the same time as Crovect. Crovect gives protection for 6 weeks, as long as you have spread it thoroughly, including under the crutch and behind the arms and in front of the legs, horns, under the tail as well as on top and as well as the pattern shown on the instructions of along the back and down over the shoulders and a horseshoe around the tail root.
The antiB you gave is good, especially when the sheep looks stressed, as it will hopefully deal with the toxic shock and prevent lung involvement from the animal lying low for a while.
I use Sudocrem on my animals and I think it would work well to help heal open flesh and old scabs. Just don't use the same pot you use on the baby's bum :D
I think you've done enough so just good nursing care now. I can't say about Ivermectin - I have never used it.
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Thx stevehants / fleecewife.
I fear if the maggots don't kill him, the chemical cocktail might.
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We have had the odd case where we've used more Crovect than is recommended because if we didn't he'd surely die anyway - and most have made remarkable recoveries. Sudocrem is great if you see the skin looking hard, angry, inflamed. I usually leave it for a couple of days though, to make sure the Crovect is able to do its job and keep any new flies away from the wounds and damaged skin.
All of ours get sent for meat and I can't think we've ever had any comments back from the abbatoir, or any deductions, so there must be no marks in the meat once it is all thoroughly healed.
There's a 56 day withdrawal for the Combinex so you wouldn't be able to slaughter him for meat for a couple of months in any case. This will set him back, and you do need the damage to heal properly, so you probably won't be sending him away for some time yet.
My instinct would be that he's had enough wormers for now - what was the reason for Rycoben as well as Combinex, by the way? Just be vigilant for any signs of further strike / maggots.
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We have used a LOT of Crovect on a really awful fly strike case, not a whole bottle but a hell of a lot as the sheep was very bad. Sheep was almost lifeless and pale gums and skin, large patches of fly strike .
Vet also gave antibiotics I should add tho.
He made a truly remarkable and complete recovery.
While its possible to overdose, I think using a lot where you are pretty certain the alternative is death from the fly strike is probably a good option, and is one I would do again, (tho hopefully won't be needed, his had been caused by geese pecking him in lots of places unseen and the flies getting in all the holes, by the time he showed symptoms the fleece was loose with the strike underneath, he didn't show any of the normal symptoms, stoical chap.
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Hope your sheep is getting better :fc: Hateful thing, fly strike :rant:
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Is it a particularly bad year for flystrike? That's three of us in 24 hours and I've never seen it before.
Smudger - I do hope your ram lamb recovers. You deserve to have a good result after all your hard work.
:hug:
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Thanks folks..
[/size] Whilst he was interested in eating last night he isn't this morning and struggling to stand - but at least he is attempting to and can stay upright long enough to drink. He seems more thirsty than anything. I'm hopeful he'll pull through as he is much improved since 7am this morning (although he is not interested in any ivy leaves, may try again later).[size=78%]
[/size]Sally - he was given combinex because I thought he was wormy and rushing to treat the eyes didn't stop to check him over more thoroughly. He's a bit small so probably wouldn't be going soon anyhow.[size=78%]
[/size]Anyway, off to bring everyone else in to check over and respray. Its about 8 weeks since they were crovected so due a top up. Probably use click on the ewes though.[size=78%]
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It is possible to overdose on Crovect ( IT IS A NERVE TOXIN ) whilest a ewe or big lamb can stand it a small lamb may not , the product spreads or put on a glove and spread it over a larger area , Spot-on does the same so no need to apply. Rycoben is a white wormer , Combinex a yellow wormer plus flukicide so while doing together won't hurt ,why ? . Combivit is ok to repeat but it doesn't contain vit b12 which is the appetite stimulant that you need . The ab is most important to stop any infection and may need repeated in 3/4 days depending on the length of activity . Once the skin starts to heal then cream is good to keep it supple .
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So what product does have B12? Anything else to support appetite / rumen?
He's not titchy but was last born so 10-12 weeks.
As for using combinex, its the start of risk season for fluke and will be doing ewes soon as a pretup soon anyway. The field the sheep were in is high risk for snails- stream at top and bottom with some reedy areas. It rained quite a bit previous week, so fairly wet although dried out now. I would have used that as first choice but didn't have it in the field, hence he got the rycoben first.
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So what product does have B12? Anything else to support appetite / rumen?
He's not titchy but was last born so 10-12 weeks.
As for using combinex, its the start of risk season for fluke and will be doing ewes soon as a pretup soon anyway. The field the sheep were in is high risk for snails- stream at top and bottom with some reedy areas. It rained quite a bit previous week, so fairly wet although dried out now. I would have used that as first choice but didn't have it in the field, hence he got the rycoben first.
You can get B12 sheep booster online pretty inexpensively, or if urgent vet can give a B12 jab tho that works out more costly naturally.
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Wouldn't you be better doing a FEC than just worming ....... ewes rarely need worming at tupping and you are just increasing the risk of resistance by just worming.
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Intravit b12 about £10 for 100ml usefull for all ruminants to stimulate appetite :sunshine:
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Thx re B12 will speak to vet. He is munching on a few nuts but not enough. Just wondered if there was a brand name bottle worth keeping on farm, as i had to get some from the vet for a 'staggering' lamb last month.
Re: pretup worming- I should have said: I will be doing those needing doing ie mucky bums (in my mind obvious but maybe not to some, so happy to clarify :) [size=78%]) . [/size][/size]N[size=78%][/size]ot everyone will be wormed. Sheep are two tooths and hoggs, so perhaps premature to cull, but will do next year if they don't sort themselves out. As we know [size=78%] ;) t[/size]here are some who would cull immediately.... but I'm soft (but hardening up after every dagging session so will be one day...... a true[size=78%] :farmer: [/size][size=78%]. [/size][/size]Maybe. [size=78%]
I did a FEC tested about 2 months after lambing because I was worried about a few ewes/hoggs who had been wormed post lambing but were still scouring. Vet said 'nothing to worry about' and no need to reworm at this stage. However that is a 'group' sample, doesn't mean there are no wormy sheep. Nadis forecast t[/size]his was a bad year for nematodirosis. I have only wormed my lambs once and that was because I panicked when I heard farmers round here were worming monthly for it! [size=78%]
I'm not doing an individual test one for each suspect ewe :o . Does anyone do that? £6 a shot!
As for fluke we are in a risk area and the field they are in is my highest risk (and the one they were in before, second highest, with a spring). He'll be a 'store' so would be done with the ewes in next few weeks anyhow. Whilst my ewes were fluked in the spring, the lambs were never fluked but still at risk.
From Nadis: [/size][size=78%]http://www.nadis.org.uk/bulletins/liver-fluke-control-in-sheep.aspx (http://www.nadis.org.uk/bulletins/liver-fluke-control-in-sheep.aspx)[/size]
[/size]Essentially, late spring early/summer infestation of snails result in the autumn fluke challenge to sheep with immediate acute disease, sub-acute disease over the following weeks, or chronic disease apparent three months later depending upon the level of challenge.[size=78%][/font][/color]
[/size]Affected sheep die suddenly from haemorrhage and liver damage with the first evidence of a problem being sudden deaths in previously healthy sheep from August to October (Figs 2-3). Inspection of others in the group reveals lethargy and reduced grazing activity. Gathering may prove difficult because sheep are reluctant to run caused by pain. Sudden deaths may affect up to 10 per cent of sheep at-risk causing grave financial loss.[size=78%][/font][/color]
[/size]And from scops: http://www.scops.org.uk/endoparasites-liver-fluke.html (http://www.scops.org.uk/endoparasites-liver-fluke.html)[size=78%]
[/size][size=0.875em]isease Type[/b][/font][/color]Peak Incidence[/b][/color]Clinical Signs[/color]Fluke Numbers[/color]FEC (epg)[/color]TreatmentAcuteJuly to DecemberSudden death or dullness, anaemia, dyspnoea, ascites and abdominal pain.1000+ mainly immature0Triclabendazole. Treat all sheep and move to a lower risk (drier) pasture if possible OR re-treat after 3 weeks. Further deaths may occur post-treatment from liver damage incurred.[/size][size=78%]
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smudger dear, please will you preview your posts, or read them once posted - there have been several almost unreadable with invalid formatting statements all over them.