The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Poultry & Waterfowl => Topic started by: ellied on August 23, 2013, 10:17:44 am
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Due to the red mite problem I shut one of the coops down and from free ranging daytime and in a run with the 3 coops overnight, I now leave the gate open all the time so the hens (and cockerel) come and go as they choose. Mostly they still go to the other 2 coops, one of which isn't that great, and I'm concerned that they haven't found other places, one wee black bantie perches on a 2" upright by the gatepost of the pen, about 6' in the air but otherwise they pack in.
I'm a bit worried about the winter for free rangers and how to prepare them to better adapt to what weather comes. There is plenty undergrowth, an orchard and various other trees, an open barn with bales and at 2 levels with bars and gates and fences, plus a couple of hutches and runs I've used for chicks but some of them used to lay in earlier in the year. But they don't use these and I'm thinking ahead in snow, rain, wind.. how do completely FR birds manage without coops? And how do I get the ones I have to try new places/methods - just shut them out of the pen is easy enough but if I found them huddled at the gate in rain I'd feel bad.. Let alone if we were visited by a fox and they were all in open coops in an open run rather than safe in trees and rafters..
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If you think you might get foxes then total free range with no nightime shutting up will put them at a lot of risk.
I had guinea fowl which perched really high up in the trees, but they were up and ranging at first light in the summer, and a nice quiet early morning in the half light is just perfect for a hunting fox. - They didnt last long.
Since then I have made sure that everything is somewhere safe till folk are around, though here in the summer months when the corn is up the foxes will still take them in daylight if they are not behind electric fencing.
Protector C is an excellent and safe redmite residual spray lasting around 6 weeks or so, or the old cresote is good also, plus an oldfashioned application of limewash to the insides of the houses sorts out a lot of the stuff, fill the cracks and lightens and freshens everything
Must stop typing now, as I am beginning to itch in sympathy :roflanim:
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I would train them now to come into the pen at night - don't feed them outside the run, only inside.Don't leave them totally free range - I had 10 young hens die frozen to death at the corner of a stone barn because a snowstorm hit in the late afternoon and they didn't have the sense to walk 10 yards to go through the open door. I was at work at the time and my husband was engrossed in climbing books and didn't even notice the snow was falling.
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Some of our Scots Greys decided to make themselves completely free range and would perch at night inside an open fronted shed, high up on some wood stored in there and we couldn't find a way to persuade them back to the henhouses at night. Something got them all over a few weeks - stoat, fox or buzzard, probably all three.
So although we consider our poultry to be free range they are all shut in at night and let out in the morning once it's fully light, if we want them to survive. They make up their minds when to go in at night and sometimes it's worryingly dusky before they're all in.
I wouldn't want my poultry to be out in all weathers through the worst of the winter. I think they lose their bearings when everything is suddenly covered in a foot of snow, so they can't seek shelter even though we can see obvious places. It also upsets their perception of when it's dark, as the snow is so bright. Even if they do try to battle their way through a blizzard to get back to their house, it's very difficult for a bird as small as a hen to make any headway against driving sleet and snow.
I'm not sure from your question just why you have made the change to 24 hour free range. Surely you can de-infest the mitey coop so they can use it again? The other two coops will also have mites so the whole lot need to be treated and all hens dusted. Or a second hand garden shed is very easy to convert and means that on the worst days of winter you can leave your birds in all day, with plenty of room for them to move around.
I have not heard of flocks which are left out all night surviving for very long. If even our wild little Scots Greys didn't make it, what chance would a more domesticated breed have?
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On the odd occasion that I've left a hen outside of the pens at night it has invariably been just a pile of feathers by the morning. Ours come running back to their pens as soon as they see us coming with their corn in the evening. I've only once lost a bird from inside the pens and that was because I hadn't shut them in properly. I wouldn't worry about them being out in the winter weather they're a lot tougher than they look. They do have difficulty getting about in deep snow though.
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Last winter I had only 8 hens and 1 coop, they lived in the run and when the snow came heavily they were sheltering as best they could along the solid parts of the run, by the house wall, under pieces of wood I leant against things to provide extra shelter, or back in the coop.
Since getting extra hens (over 20 in total at present) the run isn't big enough for full time use so I expanded them to free ranging in the garden, coming back to the run for corn in the evenings so I could count them and shut the gate - that left them free to go to roost later but I knew where they were. A couple have learned to escape, one brown hen uses logs to get into an overhanging tree and pops over, one bantam as stated jumps/flies up to a thin 2" post over 6' high and roosts there in good weather, jumps out at dawn and is away long before I get out to let the others out. I used to have balewrap netting as a camouflage net/deterrent against escaping but once these two were regularly leaving, and one other started finding ways to get caught in, or swinging on top of, the netting, I removed it. It also got hung down with heavy snow and was dragging the fenceposts, so was a mixed blessing tho now it's gone there are way more wild birds using the water and stealing food and I'm guessing that is how the red mites arrive in the first place..
When the big coop got the infestation, egg numbers dropped, I lost a couple of old birds age related but presumably just one more thing to cope with they didn't need on the way, and I shut that coop til I could find the creosote and the nerve to do the painting. Design of it means I am freaked at the thought as even to clean you have to stick your head right in and I can't just go buy new things the way some might do, I don't have a day job remember, and I'm looking at getting a series of blood tests on one pony shortly, a farrier visit, the hay/straw bills for winter to save for as I've not sold stock recently, car related bills etc as more priority IF I can sort the hen accommodation in another way than buying something. Clearly it becomes a priority if I can't, but that's why I'm asking about places that do keep hens completely free range, and I know some folk do, I just don't know if/how they do so successfully without losing the lot to foxes yet. I don't have foxes around that I know of, the hunt does come by a few times a year so I imagine there is a population and I have a gap from the village so could be found by a fox one day. Next door have a yappy dog that might put it off, but in a bad winter, probably not enough. I just don't know but I don't want to be complacent.
At present the hens have complete free range because after closing the biggest coop, the one they mostly all chose to use together, the other 2 must be pushed for space and with at least 2 choosing to look elsewhere anyway (before the closure) I thought they might want to too. I also assumed the mite would spread to the other 2 coops because of proximity, and I have alternative hutch type coops they could use further away. The fox risk is there day and night alike, I'm around a lot of the time, the cats all the time day and night now too, tho I may try and keep them shut in the house at night come winter because overnight the road gets quiet and I've lost more than one at that time in the past.
I have one litre of creosote and am trying to work out whether to tackle the biggest but hardest designwise, or work preventatively or with milder infestation in the other 2 first, which would mean shutting them down for a while because of fumes, or so I assumed. Again if there is no coop, they need to be elsewhere at least for a time, hence the question as part of a factfinding exercise to make decisions on.
I SHOULD probably tackle the big coop with the litre I have while it's closed anyway and the hens have 2 alternatives they're currently using. It scares the &**$% out of me to even think of putting my head in there. I'd rather burn it, paint the 2 smaller ones and save up for a shed, leaving hens homeless and FR to find roosts meantime but before the winter hits. And I think FR daytime in winter gives them a lot more places to shelter, as they do in rain at the mo, so I was thinking perhaps it would be better all round if they just lived rough and perhaps shorter but less chewed lives - which is similar to how I let the cats go out after 6 months of trying to make kittens happy being house cats, and they weren't.
Hope that explains my questions. I'm not looking for approval of my choices, but options to choose from depending on experiences out there that I don't have, and seeing several farms where hens seem to be roosting in open barns, trees etc year on year but I don't know if they're the same hens or whether the care is carelessly accepting of faster turnover, or just a way of life on old farms that has changed with or without reason.. I'm only 2 years into hens, ask me about native ponies and I would know way more :-\
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So at night they are shut in a run which is secure from foxes but they dont like going inside the houses? Have I understood right?
Redmite will travel quite a little distance, so unless you sort that main house out they will reinfest the others anyway. From what you say it is a poor design, and if you are considereing burning it, then I would get on and do that.
What about buying a bag of lime and slapping some limewash on the others?
Or could you maybe make a shelter with perches for them. Three side made from 8x4 and a sloping onluine roof as long as it is sited so the open front is out of the wind should give adequate protection.
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might it be possible to take the big coop apart, blow torch it, creosote the nooks and crannies? and whereabouts are you? winter is coming-mite will be less of a problem soon if you're in Scotland-rather than say, Cornwall.
If you are around a lot to shut them in the pen at dusk and prepared to accept some losses, well plenty of others do the same. Them being cramped while roosting in a coop is less of a problem if they can get out most of the day and you can keep the coops clean and dry.
are you phobic about the mites? they bite a bit but can't live on you-tea tree oil products will kill them on people (tee tree oil is highly toxic to cats, dogs and chickens so its not suitable to use where they have access to it). I work with mites-sheep scab mites but colleagues work with red mite. If you like I can send you a paper hazmat suit.
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So at night they are shut in a run which is secure from foxes but they dont like going inside the houses? Have I understood right?
Redmite will travel quite a little distance, so unless you sort that main house out they will reinfest the others anyway. From what you say it is a poor design, and if you are considereing burning it, then I would get on and do that.
What about buying a bag of lime and slapping some limewash on the others?
Or could you maybe make a shelter with perches for them. Three side made from 8x4 and a sloping onluine roof as long as it is sited so the open front is out of the wind should give adequate protection.
Sorry, no not quite right - at present they're using the 2 smaller coops which I think have minor infestation but they have the run gate open 24/7 so they can find other places eg the more distant hutches/coops by where the chicks are. Egg numbers have crept up a little as a result but they're still (other than the 2 mentioned) going back to the coops. I still feed corn in the run every evening to keep that habit going in case I want to close the gate again but mainly as it is the only obvious head count point, they don't all come running in the morning for layer pellets being topped up as it's fed ad lib and some are already laying somewhere by the time I go out of a morning so don't show up.
Making (or getting someone to help make) a shelter would be my preferred option. I have metal sheets from when the barn extension came down, plus the spares I had from its construction, and some used timber, just can't do it myself. My neighbour might help if I tell him what I need, so thanks, neither of us would have known what to aim for other than a garden shed lookalike ;)
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might it be possible to take the big coop apart, blow torch it, creosote the nooks and crannies? and whereabouts are you? winter is coming-mite will be less of a problem soon if you're in Scotland-rather than say, Cornwall.
If you are around a lot to shut them in the pen at dusk and prepared to accept some losses, well plenty of others do the same. Them being cramped while roosting in a coop is less of a problem if they can get out most of the day and you can keep the coops clean and dry.
are you phobic about the mites? they bite a bit but can't live on you-tea tree oil products will kill them on people (tee tree oil is highly toxic to cats, dogs and chickens so its not suitable to use where they have access to it). I work with mites-sheep scab mites but colleagues work with red mite. If you like I can send you a paper hazmat suit.
Fife, Scotland yes, so praying winter brings the population under control so I can go in there. Yes phobic is about right - I was dealing with them weekly with diatom and coping but the explosion and the visions of what is lurking, and seeing them on my hands, feeling crawling in my hair and I can't face it at all. Not even a routine reach in clean. It had to be closed and walked away from or I'd cry even thinking about it and I have always thought I was pretty matter of fact about stuff others couldn't face.. :surrender:
Hazmat suit be fab, biggest available size and I'll gladly pay for it and postage, but if you wanted to come wearing it and bring a blow torch I'd throw in lunch and hide in the garage while they were sizzled - I'm a live and let live kind of person but these have got to me big time :o
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phobic is fair enough-I couldn't go into a shed full of spiders. Happy to send you a hazmat, just PM me your address and if I had time I would help-unfortunately with 2 jobs, 3 horses, 20 chickens, dog and packing up to move in 6 weeks I sadly don't. can also send you some gloves?
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The thing that helped me deal with a horribly infested house, was covering my hair. Once I knew they weren't in that (they had been once :o) I managed, though I'm not impressed with them on my arms you can squash them there.
I used a shower cap - looked a right wally, but hey :D
I also found (after the hair infestation) that putting all the clothes in the washing machine and me straight in the shower, got rid of them completely.
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Reluctance to go into the house at night is very likely to be due to reluctance to be bitten to death by red mite. This summer there's been no such thing as a minor infestation.
I've a feeling in my bones this winter's going to be a bad one. We had a guinea fowl running backwards and forwards along the edge of roof in an unexpected snowstorm last winter - everything was white and he couldn't see where to fly down to - we had to clear a "runway" for him to land on - in the middle of the blizzard, of course!
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Worth bearing in mind Ellied that some red mite will remain on the birds, usually under the wings. So unless they are dusted to get them off they will spread to whatever new accommodation they use. As you say that's how red mite get spread by wild birds. The mite drop off and jump onto the next host which is your chickens. We've had this problem. Even with our creosoted coops, the last one infested having been treated just two weeks before, we get red mite. They remain in the bedding though and were spotted underneath the untreated perches.
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Reluctance to go into the house at night is very likely to be due to reluctance to be bitten to death by red mite. This summer there's been no such thing as a minor infestation.
I've a feeling in my bones this winter's going to be a bad one. We had a guinea fowl running backwards and forwards along the edge of roof in an unexpected snowstorm last winter - everything was white and he couldn't see where to fly down to - we had to clear a "runway" for him to land on - in the middle of the blizzard, of course!
They're not reluctant MF, that's the problem - they were going in until I closed them out of the big one, now they're going in the other 2 and I am treating the relatively minor infestations there that I can see, but I wanted them to go elsewhere at least while I get creosote on those two before it gets colder at night..
Thanks to Lord Flynn I understand hazmat coverall is heading my way, hope if I can squeeze in it and find enough hats, gloves and wellies to face the bigger one, maybe I can at least creosote the obvious areas like perch ends/rests of the one that is already locked up and out of use.
If not then I don't know, I will just have to use the creosote where I can on the 2 wee ones and if they don't like it but they have the choices then they'll go to the empty one down the other end or find somewhere else meantime.
Chris I've got red mite spray and diatom powder once the coops stop reinfesting them, and they've got wood ash in the most used dustbath areas of the garden tho that's more or less used up now so I'll put some diatom in there too. Egg numbers picked up a little as soon as the big coop was closed down, so I'm convinced the lockout was for their own good as they really didn't avoid roosting in there at all even when I could see it was crawling..
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The problem is we dint no Whit wether we will have iv had hens live in minus 20 for 3 weeks iv also had to dig out all day Christmas day.The thing they Carnot handle is sleet they get wet in the afternoon then be fore dark it freezes then that's it they die iv learnt to use light to sort lights come on 3.30 in the afternoon feed heavily they work hard then they perch lights out. A long cold spell feed warm food porridge with old honey in etc. When 2010 winter came it was in late November the hardiest time iv ever had i made my mind up i new it was going to be the coldist for a 100 ya res that the stock was not going to die. Get the pens sorted beg borrow Whit ever it takes keep them safe. Dint think youv cove rd every think in march i new we would get a cold week and i new it would be over soon that week end. The next week was the first lamb sale the snow came Friday night it was heavey just over a foot by 10 o clock the wind was force 10 i then tho rt we was in trouble i went to go out to check it was very bad at that time.,then the paw er went of the mobile went all stock under lamps will die if paw er is not back on. I went in the big shed chicks getting cold lit the wood burner that sorted that then went to bed.In the morning i could not get out to the fields 10 foot drifts spent 4 days looking for the young lambs out of 60 we lost 50 due to the fact that we could not find them. So remember we dint no whits in front of us the paw er was of for 4 days that next week no lambs for the sale. A lot of stock was lost chicks lambs horses caws is was a very bad event march 2013 and it wasent a cold winter. So whot went wrong.