The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: Woollysocks on August 22, 2013, 11:56:15 pm
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HI, this might be a bit long-winded but just needing to bounce a few things off of someone. i hope it makes sense.
I bought a 70 farm with my mother 10 yrs or so ago, after we both had got divorced. we moved upto scotland for a fresh start. unfortunately my mother got ill and died within 2 years.
the farm was my complete dream come true. id dreamt of it for so many years.
the first year here was lovely, then as she was sick it was quite terrible.
after she died i worked really hard on the farm, bred many animals, worked very long hours and did well with selling livestock etc. i had a good business with a good reputation.
as we bred mainly ponies, it was selling ponies that paid the bills. but since the credit crunch, its been really hard to sell ponies as they are now selling for 25% of what i was selling them for and they often have to go to market to be sold, which wasnt the initial plan. iv now stopped breeding and sold the stallions etc and im just trying to sell the remaining breeders to leave us with our favourite keepers. we moved onto other livestock but basically im fed up with slaughtering things, its a shame.
money has been really tight and last year i had quite terrible depression with suicidal thoughts for a long time. i decided then that i had to change things for the sake of my kids. im sure the depression was from money worries and having sole responsibilty of everything, as i get panic attacks when i cant pay all the bills or an animal gets sick.
me and my mum had bought this house together but im now left running a farm single-handed which is a bit too much for me on my own, the house is too big and i dont like the village we live on the edge of, as there are some really nasty neighbours.
i really crave for a little croft in the wilderness with just a few animals (rather than the 25 ponies, 30 pigs, 30 sheep, 100 hens) that we did have. and just 15 acres or so that i can easily manage. i could make this farm nice if i tried harder and invested money into machinery to help me as im struggling to do things manually now but i cant afford it and really dont like the area so this year iv let it go a bit as longterm plans dont matter anymore.
the problem is i feel guilty for selling the animals. my young daughters pony was sold to pay the bills and she is still heartbroken a year later. i thought she would get over it but she hasnt. i travelled the country to get the best animals i could find and now im selling them at a loss. im worried that i will regret selling the animals once they are gone (many good pigs have been slaughtered which still haunts me) but as i so desperately want to move i dont want to recreate my present life in a new area, i want a fresh start, with just a few animals instead of loads. i would like self-sufficiency instead of breeding and selling to someone else. we only really need to eat one bullock a year if that so dont really "need" much else. i would love to have time to have a nice veggie patch, instead of running round trying to keep the land in order. (it does get a bit wild here for which im so embarassed about i refuse to let friends visit incase they think im either an idiot or just lazy.
i want to feel the joy again of bringing in a couple of ponies to ride and brush etc, which disappeared when there were 25 ponies as it turned into "work". i think realisation point was last year when a foal was unexpectedly born (it was an accidental pregnancy and she hid it well) and instead of feeling happy i felt awful that i had another mouth to feed and find a home for. im ashamed to feel like and at that point i decided to sell up.
i feel a bit of an anti-climax as id wanted a farm all my life and i did everything i wanted here for 10 years, i achieved everything i wanted, it all happened so easily and now feel like i have no challenge or aim ahead of me. my kids arent that fussed on the livestock really as they have grown up with it and im sure they would be happy in a town even.
iv closed my business down and im looking forward to going back to proper work soon as i feel being on my own on the farm allday doesnt help my depression. iv gone from being up at 5am and working and riding to midnight everyday and loving it - to getting up late and craving my bed allday. my body is so tired but im not sure if its laziness or because iv put on 4 stone in the last few years. im trying to exercise more but my body literally feels so heavy and dull. i walked for 5 miles today to try and get fit then couldnt get off the couch for 2 hours and had to take caffiene tablets to feel any energy again. i used to be on the go all day everyday. i admit im bored also.
we will be putting the farm on the market soon and moving somewhere else, which is a bit scary as its the first time i have moved with children completely on my own, and the first time i have moved with livestock, im lucky here that my land has a river boundary so keep thinking "what if the bull escapes at the new place?" - it keeps me up alnight worrying so i convince myself that i should send him away to slaughter before we move.
im doing a college computer course in hope that it will help me find a job at the new place but im literally having nightmares about my childrens getting washed away in the sea/river etc all the time, so i guess im scared of messing things up.
i think my question here is has anyone else downsized their farm ?
i know i have everything right here right now (except any family or husband which is a huge deal for me) and i think im throwing it all away to go to a cheaper area, smaller house, less land. 75% of my livestock arent coming with us which means selling or slaughtering them. i have a small herd of cattle but what id really like is a just one housecow (plus her offspring) but this means selling a very nice cow on to someone else, and in all probabilty slaughtering the bull.
as my kids are getting older all i think about is that i should be investing for them not playing farms which doesnt make any money, im wanting to sell my present farm (im mortgage free) and buy a smallholding plus 2 or 3 other houses in their names so that when i die, they have their own house to rent out or live in etc. i feel that its now or never for me to be in a postion to support them through university in a few years time, whereas up until now, they have gone without alot of things (clothes and food included) to pay for animal feed etc.
am i a bad person for ripping apart the farm, sending away the animals to put the kids first, or is it the perfect upbringing for them but i just cant see the wood for the trees?
sorry if its a bit heavy, any advice welcome.
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If you downsize and get the smallholding you will be happier, better off financially and have more time to do the things that were part of the original dream but got lost along the way.m
I think it's a no brainer and you shouldn't feel guilty at all!!! it sounds exactly the right path for you to follow, I think you are just torturing yourself with guilt and in reality you have nothing to feel guilty for.
Don't feel bad about selling/slaughtering stock either, there are good standards of welfare at abbatoirs and most owners you sell to are also caring owners. Better life/end for the animals than being old and weak and eaten alive by a predator :-))))
You and your wellbeing and your children's futures come first and I think you should stride forward into your new life with your new croft and enjoy it!!
Xxxx
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I will reply at more length later, but just to say now, your own health and wellbeing are by far the most vital thing, and also the most important to your children, even though they don't always realise that.
When I had depression (post natal variety) I had nightmares every night about my children and husband dying, and was told that this is a very common symptom of depression. I was on medication for 10 months, have been off it for about 3, and also got a lot of paractical help, the nightmares have not returned thank goodness.
You are obviously a kind, caring person, and I think your plan for the smallholding sounds perfect.
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Hi Woolysocks,
I think we all put to much thinking and love into money....
it really do sound like your best option is to downsize, you havn't failed in any way...life can get us in many ways
keep off the redbull and Caffine tablets.... form experience...i had a stomach ulcer
as i have found, you have many cyber friends on here , so you are not totally alone...
even if you make a loss.... down size.... money is only money..... yes we all need it, but don't let it be the all and end all.....
and stop thinking about topping yourself..... thats no good to you, nor man or beast,
make a plan of how you are going to do this...then tick off the list when a job is done...that really works , a real good feeling (trust me on that one :thumbsup: )
we will wish you luck ... and i know like most on here.... just shout when you need a nudge
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My heart goes out to you, I feel you have made the first and most important step by letting us all share your current situation. You do have a large cyber community here to help, to talk to and bounce ideas off. I know how hard it is to get motivated when depressed as I have been there in my former life before we changed lifestyle for the slower lane. Is it worth a chat with your GP about how you feel? Your health and your children are what matter the most. Will keep in touch, keep your chin up, we are al here to give support.
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am i a bad person for ripping apart the farm, sending away the animals to put the kids first, or is it the perfect upbringing for them but i just cant see the wood for the trees?
Nope, the only thing that matters is your well being and that of the family. Nothing else matters.
As you say you can't see the wood from the trees a present. Sell up, downsize live a much more manageable lifestyle that gives you pleasure rather than stress and enjoy seeing your children grow up.
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Half way to recovery is realising and accepting what is wrong....I would echo the first reply in that you've had a good run at it done your very best made a success of it and now its time to move on as much for your sake as that of the animals you currently keep. I'm sure that you will find an idyllic place that ticks all the right boxes for you and will give you the fresh start you now crave.....depression is a funny thing and has touched and affected more of us than we know......
As said there's always a support network of experiences and opinions here I wish you all the very best :sunshine:
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Hi Woolysocks
:hug: :hug: :hug:
I've no idea how you have managed all those animals and acres without much mechanisation and with children to care for by yourself......... you are a huge success. Now is time to look forwards not back. A lovely smallholding with some animals to care for and money invested for the future sounds fantastic (I'm sure there are a lot of people on here who would dream of the latter) ......... You have cared for all your animals well and now its time for them to go ........... you will be supported by lots of people on here who have been through similar.
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Depression is a nasty b#**rd, horrible dark disease it sneaks up on you and tortures the life out of you BUT there is light at the end of the tunnel and you're making the right moves just by geting it off your chest on here, you say you won't let friends visit in case they think you're either an idiot or just lazy ??? if they're REAL friends they won't care they'll just want to help and at times like these you need all the physical help you can get, even if its just a shoulder to cry on or somebody to provide tea & sympathy :hug: .
Don't dismiss going to your GP who will give you tablets and they do help short term.
I hope you find your dream and peace of mind, it will happen :fc:
thinking of you Mandy :pig:
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Couple of thoughts, first was you sound shockingly like me tho I never had the 70 acres, I've only 10 here but rented and suddenly lost lease on 20 just after taking voluntary redundancy because of 3 family bereavements in 6 months in 2009 that left me sure I wasn't earning my salary, doing my job properly (management so had to be fully engaged and wasn't) or ever likely to think of my day job as remotely important again having put it and other things above spending time with mum, time I could never get back after she died.
I downsized from 20 ponies to a dozen mostly through disasters rather than good sales, and am frequently desperate to give up what is now less of a passion and more of a chore to get through, but as you say folk now want ponies at rock bottom prices and I'm scared of some of the attitudes of buyers so would prefer to have them pts than sell to such homes :( Other days I get enthused by a new foal's antics and wonder what the h*ll else would get me out of the house and what I'd do if I sold, pts and otherwise outlived the rest and had nothing dependent on my being there to feed and check. Every problem, health issue or death I blame myself for not noticing, not knowing enough, not caring enough any more, someone I used to be friends with (in among telling me to pull myself together ::) ) said I no longer deserved to own animals and part of me believes her :( But the old favourites, where else would they go, could I really have my beloved homebred stallion pts healthy at 12, or my OAP first ever homebreds go early in their late teens because they're of limited use to anyone else ???
I also have some health issues, which haven't helped and I know the one day activity 3 on the sofa and hobbling about necessary chores in between ::) 500mg paracetamol x2 up to 4 times a day helps, before I start on anything more serious, but I do have prescription meds for worse days and that only recent enough to have a major backlog on all kinds of field and garden work I can no longer tackle or pay for so the place looks rundown.
OK, so there we start the same other than scale ;)
Suggestions - first organise the stock you don't want to keep and have no doubts over, to be sold or slaughtered whatever you would do without undue hesitation.
Then group the rest as closely as you can, leaving some of the land, possibly buildings, vacant. Offer them for lease to other farmers on a basis that involves them maintaining the land, fences, water supplies etc and get the farm in order that way. See how that feels, with a few visitors, less responsibility, less land to manage.. Do the lets via an agent or the mart rather than yourself so there is a legal contract, someone managing the income and ensuring terms are met. You don't need someone messing you about over money or failing to vacate. You could get sheep on to overwinter, leaving you nice well kept grass in spring if you do decide to move, with decent stockfencing maintained meantime, rather than what you don't want to show visitors. You could also advertise on HelpX for a couple to come and help renovate, fix, decorate and tidy up ready for sales pictures if you have accommodation or a caravan they could use.
THEN once you have a couple things less to worry over, consider options on the rest over the coming months while you finish your course and think about what you DO want, rather than what you don't, imagining the rest is sorted as you want it, where would you move to, what stock would you choose to take (not feel obliged to) etc. If you find you want to sell up and buy houses and 15 acres is more than enough for your future plans, fine, but I can say for sure that I find 10 acres harder to manage than I did 30 (fencing and travel aside) as resting and fixing things is more complex when you don't have spare capacity ::) and you can't run on ponies til a decent price is achievable for instance.
If I had free rein and 70 acres, that's what I'd do. And I'd rather have 70 and let it out than 10 and be stuck, with only a 2 bed bungalow any visitor is too close to my space so HelpX isn't feasible for me but that would be my plan.
My other worry is if I put my place on the market and got a buyer, what would I do with the stock til I found the right place to move to rather than just somewhere the right size and timing under pressure ::) The neighbouring bad area where you are would be a concern, but I'd be doubly careful about moving too quickly in desperation and not researching the new area enough to avoid the same issues, either a rough area or just one close bad neighbour can ruin an otherwise great plan. Also, even in areas you think of as a bit rough, there can be changes or dual communities - Newburgh near me always looked dull and very unwelcoming, there is a "5 families" situation apparently and everyone else is incomers, among these are feuds and a few druggies etc, I'd never have considered it a nice place. BUT just 3 miles away for about 12 years now, I have found a thriving and growing art and craft and smallholding community, particularly the orchard group and in that time there has been a large change due to the incomer ratio being artists and crafts workshop type folk. I wouldn't go in the pubs there on a Friday night on my own, but I go there on a Thursday night in the dark to an art group, know decent cafes starting to spring up.. and from wanting to move to remote parts of the Trossachs until last year I now actually like it here, but in my ideal world I'd have 30 acres back and within walking distance of a shop..
Also look at your location for other business ideas, diversification - christmas trees, forestry, caravans, tents, farm shop, craftspeople renting studios, things that might make your space more sociable and less direct physical work..
So think carefully when not in the depths of desperation and depression, that's my advice, such decisions aren't necessarily the best made ::) Change what you can, prepare and live a similar life to what you've thought of, less stock, less land etc where you are first, and then go looking for what you really do want once you know pitfalls, requirements etc. You don't need another bad experience right now..
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I have never owned more than 24 acres, and only rented out and helped with animals, rather than own a lot of them. so can't know how you feel. But I have been depressed and advice to seek help is imperative.
The only other comment I'd make is to print off Ellie's post and work through it. I don't think I have ever seen such logical and appropriate advice.
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Don't feel bad, circumstances change and we have to change with them. And don't think you are a failure, there are plenty of folk who are in the same position as you, struggling with selling stock etc post-credit crunch.
You should try to turn any negativity you feel into positive thoughts about your new place and the possibilities it will open up for you. If your mind gets stuck in a doom & gloom rut then try making lists of all the things going on in your life and the problems you have, and any opportunities. Once you have them down on paper you can look at each one individually and come up with a solution for it or put a positive spin on it, and more often than not you will find that the good things outweigh the bad.
I would ditch the tablets, I don't think that any tablet will magically make it all better. Only you can do that. It may well take hard work and lots of effort (mentally, emotionally or physically), but anything is do-able. Set yourself regular goals, even if they are just small ones, and then strive to achieve them. I find being able to tick off things from my to-do list is a wonderful way of getting me in a positive frame of mind. :)
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Please dont ditch any tablets perscribed by a doctor without talking to dr. Just stopping anti depressants can cause all sorts of problems. They need to be taken for 6 months to reduce the likelyhood of depression reoccuring............ and they are life savers for some (but not everyone will agree here) they can clear the negative fog that is depression and allow you to do all that forward positive planning. ... and action.
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Lots of good advice from previous posters. I too am changing everything I have done and going to do something completely new and totally out of character for me in my previous existence, and once I had made the decision, though it took my heart-searching, I feel happier and more positive and alive than I have for many years now. I felt I had got to the stage where everything was a task rather than a pleasure and knew it was the right thing to do.
From your post you know the way you should go, its just convincing yourself you are making the right decision - my current take on life is to "go with the flow" and so far it seems to be working out ok, and I am sure it will for you also Lots of :hug: :hug: :hug: Sue
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thanks so much for the support. very kind.
i havent been to the doctors about the depression as i didnt want it on my record - i remember going for a job interview where they asked for permission to check my mental health via the doctor before being offered a job, with vulnerable people (i was a carer) - or something like that, i cant quite remember but since then iv worried about being diagnosed with depression incase it affects me later on. im ok 60% of the time at the moment but last year it was terrible. im trying to avoid stress if possible, there have been disagreements with the close neighbours and it really upsets me so i try and stay away during the weekends so i dont bump into them (which is partly why the farm is tatty this year), even last week we had a old wifey shouting at my gate to complain about something, or she'l stand in the road to wait for me, and it;l upset me for the rest of the day. im sure the depression is situation related ie no, money, horrible neighbours, no family, so im not sure taking medication will help solve the problems, hopefully moving house will. im much happier when we have gone out for the day but i dont like leaving the animals unattended. i have my dream farm - but dont want to go home - a bit ironic! if i could pick it up and move it i would.
our land is 3/4 woods and the rest is pasture. wev had farmers topping it, draining it, fencing it etc in the first few years but it cost us an embarrassing £10k for this. now i cant afford help. we did have hay cut once but it wasnt good stuff as it was cut so late in the season. so now we buy it in. this is one of the stress factors - we had a local contractor who delivered bales each week for years but the quality was really bad one particular year even though he charged me full price (it was green with mould) so after a heated discussion he refused to come back leaving me with no haylage and 25 ponies to feed mid-winter. he then went to bad mouth me in the village and he told me there was a farmers clan and once you kick one farmer - they all limp - ever since i cant get any straw delivered and really struggle to get haylage, even roofers refuse to come and help as they are all friends. now getting hay is a big worry, it keeps me awake at night - i dont have alot of barn space, i could get 10 bales max at a time under cover, but i dont have a tractor or anything so if i get hay delivered in bulk from outwith , i cant unload it. this is one reasons iv sold alot of ponies as feeding them in winter has become a difficulty. i had small bales delivered but they are the size of 1/3 of a small bale and £7 each which is ridiculous when iv so many big beasts to feed. i did find a hay man who would deliver 60 bales minimum but i dont think his lorry would get up our road, and im still stuck with unloading them. im also worrying about getting the snow cleared off the drive in the winter - it 500 yrds long - as it was the same farmer who did this for me and no lorry carrying hay could get up our hill if it was covered in snow.
im considering feeding straw this year as its easier to move by hand. i just cant move haylage at all, and most farmers round here feed silage which isnt ideal for native ponies. the big bales are a problem for me with no tractor. getting haylage delivered in bulk is difficult as they get pierced and go off.
the land has a huge ragwort problem and no one iv asked will help me to fix it. it usually takes 6-8weeks to pull the whole farm, which means the kids never get to have fun during the holidays as we are down the field everyday - and every year it grows back the same. as there are alot of scattered trees so a tractor wont fit down the fields so it all has to be done by hand (i should have bought a quad at the beginning) if i use a hand sprayer then i get a sore throat and glands for a few weeks and im scared of giving myself cancer by prolonged use of weedkiller. after 10 years the ragwort is no better and i owe to the animals to move pretty damn quick or sell them for their own good. we have cut alot of trees down but we are still left with the stumps so cant reseed or harrow the land either. basically we bought the wrong farm and now run out of money to fix it up. it has swallowed thousands!
we have 2 houses here, each house has its own land but iv decided to sell the houses on their own without land as we are right next to the village and farm land is getting covered with housing estates here so id rather keep the land as a nest eggs for the children when im gone. keeping the land also takes the pressure off finding a new place for the livestock once the house is sold.
ref renting out the land - im not sure a decent farmer would want it but im sure someone would if the price is right. iv let out one field this year thinking it was a step in the right direction but its been left completely empty until this week when i put my cattle back in to eat it down, at the leasee's request. it looks at mess at the moment so its not filling me with confidence in letting out the rest of the land. it might suit a gamekeeper or pig farmer more than cattle or sheep.
im trying to get the houses on the markets, iv had estate agents round already.
we have changed the farm boundaries as we are keeping hold of the land (its £800 each house for the boundaries to be redrawn) then £600 for the homebuyers reports each plus upfront estate agents fees so i need the best part of £3k to even put the houses on the market. itl be spring before iv saved up enough money.
iv seen a few places i fancy, one is small and neat with 12 acres but im not if its big enough for the 5 ponies and 3 cattle (one cow and 2 calves) we wanted to keep. the other has 70 acres of proper grazing which is currently being let to a farmer so is much better quality than we have at present. iv considered this one but its £85k dearer than the small croft, and £85k could buy a 2 bed investment property so im not sure if im being greedy again wanting more land. we rely on the rental income to live on as my job is low paid and part-time but what is the best investment one house? or 70 acres of good farmland? (which could be sold for building plots when im long gone, maybe? but annual rent is alot less than house rental)
thanks for listening, so many life changing decisions to make, it makes my head spin!
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There's nothing to feel guilty about - you're not responsible for the credit crunch or the horse market (or lack thereof).
The best thing you can do (for your kids AND yourself) is to get yourself to a position where YOU are happy and unstressed - whatever that takes. Whether that involves selling or renting out or whatever I don't know - but if you feel your way forward is to downsize & move then go for it; get back to where you can enjoy what you do again. You won't do your kids or your animals any favours by driving yourself into the ground.
Ah. you've posted whilst I was typing (typical).
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Sounds like your neighbours are not a helpful bunch either, which makes life doubly hard for you and is enough to make anyone stressed. Living with neighbours you do not get on with is horrendous and for that alone you might be best looking for somewhere else to live. What if you just sold the whole lot of land/houses together - perhaps by auction and then cutting all ties and moving away somewhere totally different for a fresh start? There are plenty of places around that will suit 5 ponies and the few cattle you are planning to take. Good luck with whatever you decide :hug:
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Good luck with your plans. Your neighbours sound like narrow minded bullies, hell mend them.
I can't remember the name of the site but it's the one where you offer accommodation and they give you some help in return, would that be an option? Someone will know what I mean.
AnnS
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Sorry, still don't feel quite up to replying properly, but having just returned from my 60 year old father-in-law's funeral, who did not take proper care of himself, I would urge you to see your doctor about the depression - I put it off for so long, and things could have been sorted so much sooner. As always, ellied (who takes perfect care of her animals, and absolutely DOES deserve them!) offers great, sensible advice.
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Good luck with your plans. Your neighbours sound like narrow minded bullies, hell mend them.
I can't remember the name of the site but it's the one where you offer accommodation and they give you some help in return, would that be an option? Someone will know what I mean.
AnnS
The site is HelpX very good I think
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Sounds like you are having a really tough time. :hug: :hug: I've never been in your position so I'm not the right person to offer advice, and you've had plenty already that sounds good to me. As you want to get away from the neighbours, it does sound like moving is probably your best option.
Do look after yourself. I quite understand why you don't want to go to your doctor but maybe talking to someone will help. Remember the Samaritans are available 24 hours a day to talk to. And we are all here for you. :hug:
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Finding the right property can be a so hard. You could try a list - things you must have, things you'd really like, things you'd quite like but are willing to compromise on. Award each item points out of 10. Think about when, where, what, who and why. Bear in mind where you'd like to be and what you'd like to be doing in a year, five years, ten years. Bear in mind also that your children may have to move away to study, work, etc,. and as you grow older you may want neighbours and a shop a bit nearer.
There are many paths and sometimes life makes you change the route, although you'd never have thought you ever would.
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Id think about getting the horses off the place if you want to sell - have your or someone elses (although if you have rubbish neighbours, maybe not) sheep on - they will at least eat the ragwort before it looks a problem (they won't eat the flowering plant, just the 'rosette' stage). Will help the farm look tidy to sell and if you keep density low, you shouldn't have to buy as much (or indeed, any) hay. Graze the whole farm in winter, close half up for hay in summer (make sure the ragwort has been eaten off) if you can get someone to cut/bale it, that is - if not try and let half out for summer grazing or something.
Will probably be lots less hassle for you and give you some breathing space to think about what you want to do - although there wont be as much money in the sheep, you wont need to spend much time looking after sheep on 70ac, might give you time to think/find some other work....etc..
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Sell the whole lot at auction and make a fresh start. It sounds drastic but is better than dragging it out especially if you have rotten neighbours. Be a 'ski-er' and let the children make their own way in life (with a bit of help to get started).
Now you all think I am a really harsh old :cow: ::) (I'm not really :hug: )