The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: smudger on August 19, 2013, 04:50:50 pm
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Made some enquiries with a local butcher but he doesn't buy 'entire' male lambs - is this unusual?
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No. Some people believe that they have a different taste ("ram taint"), especially if killed too late in the year when their hormones are in full swing.
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Some claim they are harder to skin too.
Butcher at abbotoir reckons that you can tell if they are going to be tainted before you even kill them.
Interestingly, Sainsburys welfare code does not now allow mutilations, so they buy entire males.
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Interesting! So does that preclude docking also?
How old are your boys, Smudger?
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That's interesting SteveHants - hadn't heard that about Sainsburys.
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Ha! I think my castrated boys prefer having almost two years of fun and frolics as wethers as they would five months as entires, ESP entires who never get to do anything!
TBH if done properly the lambs barely notice the ring , and skip away, can't really see it as mutilation given its perfectly accepted for other species like horses dogs and cats to 'arrange' them, the anaesthetic and jabs for doing it the way it's done with those causes more visible discomfort than I've seen in my ringed lambs.
Hey ho.
I do think that long tails ought to be tried to be bred shorter tho, our northern Shorttailed breeds never need tail docking.
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we use the second grade entire tups in the box scheme and each time we do the response is always more positive about how tastier they were. I think people buying from source look upon flavour as a good thing!!
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Interestingly, Sainsburys welfare code does not now allow mutilations, so they buy entire males.
I am fascinated by this.
How are they sourcing their lambs, then? Where did you hear about this, Steve?
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No mutilation for Sainsburys... so just how do they tag them?
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Indeed! Pastern bands? I don't think anyone does them yet. Or bolus I suppose.
I agree that banding lambs if done properly is fairly unstressful and the longer life is probably more desirable but if they are only due to last 5/6 months anyway, is it necessary?
Interesting that your customers prefer the flavour of entire meat though, Hexhammeasure
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Interestingly, Sainsburys welfare code does not now allow mutilations, so they buy entire males.
I am fascinated by this.
How are they sourcing their lambs, then? Where did you hear about this, Steve?
Feller that told me supplies them through Randall Parker - Launceston.
Edited for clarification - tailing and castration are mutilations whereas tagging is not, no part of the animal is removed when you tag. I mean 'mutilations' in the proper, biological sense of the word - I have no ideological problem with castration if thats what you want to do - I don't do it because I lamb outside and I think that anything that slows the lam down is a mistake lambing outdoors and this policy has suited me pretty well so far.
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german sheep farmers dont castrate if i remember an earlier thread correctly.
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My ram lambs were born end March - mid april so only 4 ish months old. Could understand it if they were hogget or mature....
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We sent our entire boys at 18 months old, and the feedback has been very positive - lovely flavour and lean.
Our vet recons the meat is leaner if you leave them entire.
A well respected breeder we know also recons that if the ram hasn't "pleasured" a ewe then there will be no taint as the hormones have not entered the body????????
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It's a skilled job, fattening an entire ram lamb. At a certain age/stage, they can lose interest in feeding as other things begin to take their attention. The butcher then can be presented with a rather poor carcase, and it costs him the same to butcher it as a fully-fleshed one, but he will get a lot less back in sales.
Our butcher will take any lamb from us, because he trusts us to know what he wants. But at a certain point in the season, if we send him more than the odd entire ram lamb, he will quietly mention that we "seem to be getting the tail-enders now," and that perhaps he won't have any more after the current batch... ;)
In truth, it's a skilled job, fattening any lamb for a High St or village butcher. Too fat and it costs him more to butcher it as he has to do a lot of trimming, plus he's paid for it per kilo deadweight and has to throw a lot of fat away; too little flesh and/or poor conformation, and his cost to butcher per kilo goes up. Too young and there may be insufficient flavour; too much cake and the texture may suffer; too slow-grown and the fat may be yellow which some buyers won't like, and so on.
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We sent our entire boys at 18 months old, and the feedback has been very positive - lovely flavour and lean.
Our vet recons the meat is leaner if you leave them entire.
A well respected breeder we know also recons that if the ram hasn't "pleasured" a ewe then there will be no taint as the hormones have not entered the body? ??? ??? ?
I think it's to do with when you kill them, I think it would need to be out-of-season so to speak, so when the majority of the ewes are not in season. Feb-Aug I would say.
I've just got back an 18 month old entire BWM ram that has been hanging at the butchers for a week. I was worried that he would be too fat as he was very chunky, although I could still feel his spine etc. He's actually come out quite nicely, and he tastes lush. If I had more land I think I would run more on for hogget.
(actually this ram was a short scrotum castrate, but in reality he's still got his balls so has all his hormones etc)
I think it is true that wethers put on fat more easily, I certainly have seen this in mine.
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I sell to Sainsburys and as far as I know there is no regulation set about mutilations---however they get 450+ entire rams off me every year , this year I sent 200 in April when they were a year old with no complaints.
None of my lambs are tail docked as it just isn't necessary if you have shedding/cleanskin sheep (there is not enough wool on the tails for the muck to cling to)
There is proposed EU legislation 'in the wings' banning sheep mutilation without anaesthetic
There are quite a few breeds with shorter tails and there is often variation in tail length within breeds, where there is variation you can select so getting sheep with short tails is not going to be that hard
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I sell to Sainsburys and as far as I know there is no regulation set about mutilations---however they get 450+ entire rams off me every year , this year I sent 200 in April when they were a year old with no complaints.
None of my lambs are tail docked as it just isn't necessary if you have shedding/cleanskin sheep (there is not enough wool on the tails for the muck to cling to)
There is proposed EU legislation 'in the wings' banning sheep mutilation without anaesthetic
Seems I'm wrong then, cos I'd swear it was you who told me that Sainsburys like them entire/not docked. ;D
Oops.
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I had three of my Portland hoggets done last year with the intention of selling on the meat and keeping one for ourselves. They were so delicious that we kept all of the meat ourselves. These boys were 18 months old, slaughtered on the july. The butcher mentioned they were lean with not much fat on - surely that was the best way but not something Joe public would be interested in. I've got six going next week - can't wait to get them back!!!!! :yum:
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We take on a couple of March born entires for meat each year - those not suitable for breeding go to the livestock market as stores for someone with more land than us to grow on. We take them in at the end of November and keep them out of sight and sound of all females for the final month.