The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: Oly on August 19, 2013, 12:55:16 pm
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I know I'm probably opening a can of worms here but...what are easiest to keep for first timers, Sheep or Cattle? I know it's a bit like comparing apples and pears, and breeds will come into it, hence I've outlined our requirements/situation below for breeds of either to be suggested...
We have about two acres of Cheshire with one acre that needs the grass keeping down. The other acre will be used as a Certificated Caravan Site for the summer, but will be available for over winter grazing. The main aim is to keep the grass down, keep the land "pretty" for guests, not require too much added intervention in terms of vets etc, not require too much expense in terms of equipment, and can be left "out" all year round. The ground is pretty free draining (very sandy under the topsoil) so we're hoping poaching of the land should be minimal, but it should be a consideration. From time to time, or as experience grows, we may venture into breeding/slaughtering periodically - but this would be ancillary to the primary aim so please don't factor this too highly in breed suggestions.
We are in a very dairy based area (South Cheshire - the land of milk and slurry!) and have friends in the business who may be able to help from time to time. We know a couple of hobby sheepherds, and my brother milks plus has kept pedigree Texiles previously (but were a massive pain!). However, people get hung up on "their" breed, hence the open question here...what would you go for and why?
I know this post may seem a little like we don't want animals, we do, it's just that we are half way through a self build, which also includes a new holiday cottage to let and the campsite...but we also really do want animals! At the moment all the new elements seem like a lot of work on top of full time jobs, hence if we can choose an easier breed of sheep/cattle it would help...initially!
Zwartbles and Dexters are presently being considered, but we really are open to suggestions.
Many thanks in anticipation,
Oly
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hi for what its worth i would say without any hesitation sheep are easier. we started with sheep about 5 years ago as total novices and whilst we really would love at least a house cow we dont feel ready, experience wise or time wise. what i would say is don't confuse easier with easy. not sure anyone should embark on keeping livestock if they're not prepared for it to be time consuming,and inconvenient. i read and read and read to know more and become better able to loo after them properly. this forum is totally invaluable too good luck
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Sheep, no doubt about it! A primitive breed would be very low maintenance and worth thinking about also! Zwartbles are gorgeous, but can get quite large and you need to buy from a good breeder as I have been told some lines have feet and mastitis problems... If you are not going to breed from them and just want a few pets and an attraction for tourists maybe a cpl of llamas would be something to consider!?
If you like the look of zwartbles also look at the balwens, they are smaller, hardier and cheaper!
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The main aim is to keep the grass down, keep the land "pretty" for guests,
Does 'pretty' include sheep or cattle poo?
I've never had cattle so can't compare but my Ryelands are fairly easy to keep. Having said that like all animals they need regular treatments/hoof trimming and you always need to keep an eye out for things like fly strike.
I am sure someone with cattle or both will be along shortly to give a better comparisson
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Thanks for the replies so far! And yes, poo is OK in terms of "pretty"! I'm thinking more about turning the land over (e.g. pigs)...which doesn't bode well for a campsite that may be due to be occupied within a month!!
I must admit that may preference (solely on a "like") basis is cattle...is it wrong to like the sound of a cow tearing up grass?! Although I do like some sheep breeds too, and the easycare type non-shedding types do sounds interesting. Are there any others? Also what sort of numbers should I be thinking given the acreage...and it is rich Cheshire grass? Also, given the richness of the grazing - is this a consideration/concern regarding traditionally mountain (low quality) grazers?
PS:- Those Balwens do look lovely!!
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You need to allow an acre of grazing per cow (roughly) and you need to keep two cows so they have company. I think that kind of answers your question?
TBH, I think the cattle are easier (we have cattle and sheep) insofar as there's less routine maintenance - feet get done once a year by a contractor, twice a year with a pour on for worms and fluke and a couple of times a year for external parasites. Four yearly TB testing here and annual BVD test. That's as long as things are going well - a sick sheep is easier, by dint of being smaller, to handle but I don't think (hope) cattle get sick all that often.
Cattle don't graze as tidily as sheep either - and putting a foot in sheep poo is less distressing than putting it in a cow pat :)
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Thanks Rosemary, is this head/acre true for a small breed like Dexters on good lush ground too?
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The other thing about cattle is that in wet winter weather they'll need shelter and their hooves will cut up your paddock. You can keep about 5 sheep on an acre and let them have lambs which then go into your freezer! There are some mini sized sheep like ouessant which you might like, also shetlands come in a variety of colours and patterns. If you don't mind horns castlemilk moorits and manx sheep are lovely in looks and flavour! These are all easy care breeds so mean less work for you and they live out all year round with no issues... They also won't cut up your paddock like cattle. I love dexters, esp the short legged reds! You can milk them too so maybe if you are set on cattle a cow with calf at foot would be a good option if you have the right set up!
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Just get a few wethers and/or female sheep that look nice, are a traditional and slow growing breed and taste really good as mutton. They keep the grass down and you can reduce the flock as and when your freezer is empty, always buy a few from a smallholder nearby at weaning and won't need to bother with breeding.
But you would probably need to buy in a few bales of hay for winter, and it helps to have a few hurdles to gather them and train them to the bucket.
I wouldn't start with cattle...
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I keep cattle (2 lol!) and pigs, had 'pet' lambs as a kid so don't have much useful experience with them to comment on.
But, in your situation I think you'd be better with sheep, rather than cattle.
The main reason is the amount of ground and the keeping of at least 2 animals for company, the poo comes into the equation too (sheep poo is far less intrusive for campers ;)) but also, in terms of potential break outs (it will happen at some point) sheep are far less intimidating than a cow outside your tent ;) and noise levels for your paying guests - after all, they'll be your main source of income so you need to keep them sweet :thumbsup:
I'd maybe also suggest that it's worth having some form of housing for them and hard standing (if it's sheep it could be paving slabs, doesn't need to be concrete) for the wetter winter months and/or really bad weather.
You could also consider geese (6 per acre is recommended stocking density) as they'll keep the grass down, as would chickens or ducks and you'd have lovely fresh, free range eggs you could sell to campers for brekkie and use it as a gimmick for kiddies - get some nice woven baskets, lined with straw and let them collect their own (under your supervision of course)
Just my tuppenceworth :innocent:
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Great suggestions all round!
So, are there any dark/mottled coloured sheep (not too keen on plain white...we all have our preferences i guess!), that can be out all year, are easycare (no shearing, fewer health issues etc) and taste good as mutton?
Re cattle...why wouldn't you start with them? My uncle who had sheep always used to say that they had a death wish and any sherpards job was to stop that...I've never heard the same with cattle.
Ps - a few choks arealso planned!
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why not rent the land to a farmer for a bit?
you cant keep a cow on her own, it wouldnt be fair and they are more than capable of jumping out and finding the nearest herd (speaking from experience ::)). a cow per acre is the bare minimum and i guess this equation is based on summer grazing which is excellent grass and rotated each year, i dont think it means a one acre field is suitable for a cow on her tod. cows eat alot and also poop alot which reduces clean grazing. keeping one cow per single acre year in year out would require a degree of land maintenance, and would require bring the cow inside for the winter to rest the field. all cows kick so be prepared for that.
i dont think cows or sheep are low maintenance as they require some commitment in terms of educating yourself about them. we have kept cattle for 3 yrs or so and still feel like a novice. i do prefer cattle to sheep though as they are so calming. but they do require more ability in handling. plus they require tb testing etc at only a few days notice.
sheep are maybe easier if you are prepared to bucket train them check them regularly for flystrike etc in the summer. they wont make so much mess with poop but can be infuriating if you cant catch them without a dog :o
they do sometimes do bad things like jump on your head if penned up :roflanim:
sheep are much easier to finish and send away, whereas cattle take almost 3 yrs. sheep are easy to sell even if they are poor pedigree as there are many pet homes around, whereas this might not the the same for cattle.
the initial investment is less for sheep.
having the house cow sounds lovely but you do need to get her pregnant, by AI or transporting her somewhere (need trailer and 4x4 - so gets expensive, plus movement docs) , she may need scanning so you might need to invest in a crush etc and then you need to sell the offspring etc or you'l be over-run with cattle.
we kept 5 native sheep on an acre all year round with only a small amount of haylage and hard feed in the winter.
you have to decide if you want neutered pet sheep or young ones for meat. native breeds are much more suitable for novices than the hybrid mules.
its alot easier and cheaper to rent the paddock out.
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I'm also thinking about getting some sheep. What is the usual max number of sheep per acre recommendation? I'm hoping it's quite a bit more than for cattle?
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Renting out the field isn't an option. We want animals, plus round here it would be horses only really.
Spoke to a guy locally who has dexters and reckoned two dexters on our lush grass should be fine with the acreage, plus outside all year with minimal poaching or extra feed. The extra paper admin should be ok, and could probably get away without a 4x4 or crush with friendly dexters, but there would be a bigger up front cost I guess (2 dexters versus 6 pedigree sheep)? Any day to day or health reasons why cattle are supposedly harder?
However, a small flock of sheep, managed as per Anke's post does also appeal...for the right breed...suggestions?
Desicions, desicions...!!!
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Spoke to a guy locally who has dexters and reckoned two dexters on our lush grass should be fine with the acreage, plus outside all year with minimal poaching or extra feed.
why not get 2 bullock dexter calves to fatten on for meat, then you can put them in the freezer in year 2 and reflect.
the first year on clean fresh grazing will be easier on the land, its the subsequent years with mature cattle and unrested land that will make an acre seem far too small.
or if you are in a dairy area, why not fatten some calves for rose veal?
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Oh, yes - the noise issue. Ever heard a bulling cow? Happyhippy has - I told her she'd definitely know when Molly was bulling. And she did ;D
Shetlands are pretty light on the ground too and we have sandy soil here, but they still make a mess in winter especially round gates, water troughs and hay racks. That's maybe OK in the first winter, but the worn bits take longer to come away in spring so your acre isn't an acre anymore.
Personally, I'd go for a mix of sheep, some geese and chooks. Some nice primitive sheep with nice fleeces and markings and a few Coloured Ryelands, which look like teddybears and generally like people (and oatcakes).
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Ooo...ideas ideas!! How long does rose veal take? Point taken re the cumulative poaching issue...
Also, back to sheep...are there any dark/mottled coloured sheep, that can be out all year, are easycare (no shearing, fewer health issues etc) and taste good as mutton?
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Ooo...ideas ideas!! How long does rose veal take? Point taken re the cumulative poaching issue...
im not sure but its been discussed on here before so try searching for it. they may need shelter but a horse field shelter with a gate on the opening may be enough for 2 calves if you have no barn.
Also, back to sheep...are there any dark/mottled coloured sheep, that can be out all year, are easycare (no shearing, fewer health issues etc) and taste good as mutton?
soay are an option. i personally wouldnt call soay a beginners breed as mine used to jump fences.
not all self shedding sheep completely shed, some still need shearing. are you wanting to use the fleece?
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No, no need for the fleece
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just googled the Zwartbles ..wow!!! arn't they beautiful,
i read this thread with interest :innocent:
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Taken on board comments, had a look at availability etc...still a way to go but think a small flock of Balwens may be the plan.
Many thanks for all the comments, please feel free to keep them coming,
Oly
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ahh, balwens are a lovely smallish british ( :thumbsup:) sheep so you could keep more per acre than the bigger chaps. we had a couple and i really wanted more couldnt find any near me at the time.
not as tall as the zwartles but similar-ish markings.
goodluck, planning is half the fun :excited:
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Now to find flock nearby to visit!
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where do u stay? i know of a breeder in wales/bristol border.
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The other acre or so we're not entirely sure what to do as yet and are considering everything from wildlife habitat, DIY livery, and apple orchard/production to raising a few animals for slaughter.
Either which way, the property has to help pay for itself and provide a retirement income in about 20+ years! Plus we don't want to be too tied down (nothing that a house/site sitter couldn't manage) as we do enjoy travelling too...but we appreciate that compromises may have to be made!!
and you want sheep that don't need shearing too.
Well, I am going to be blunt.
Do not get livestock unless you really love them or really need them. From what I have read, neither is true in your case. In the same way as I would advise someone looking for a dog that doesn't need walking and doesn't mind being left on its own to not get a dog, I will advise you to not get livestock.
Sheep, however 'easy care', need looking after. Cattle are in some ways easier, but even without my misgivings about your commitment, I had been going to caution about the propensity of cattle to attempt to swallow anything they can get down their throats. Inexperienced keepers, cattle and a camp/caravan site are a very very bad mix, in my view.
If you are hell-bent on getting cattle, then get a couple of weaned Dexter store bullocks to bring on for your first year. Do not attempt to rear young calves until you have a bit of experience, and know that you can keep your campers' litter away from the cattle.
It would be a much better solution if you could find some local sheepkeeper who would graze your acre for you and keep an eye on their own sheep. Perhaps there's a wannabe sheepkeeper nearby who would jump at the chance of an acre to graze...?
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In a way i do agree with you sally, but we all do need to start somewhere, its like me, I have never kept sheep before, yet i want to rear my own meat, i want my sheep to have a great life before they end up on my plate....
after reading this thread , and doing the research from the answers posted, i think we will be looking for balwins , and also kune kune pigs ,,, i am under no illusions that we have a massive learning curve in front of us, and a few mistakes will be made,
the good thing is..these days , we do have some pretty quick back up, via places like this...
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Hello,
Sounds to me as if you have access to advice from brother / friends so I would go for half a dozen sheep. I think the handling issues with cattle can cause a problem. I have some ouessants and random wethers which keep grass down etc. Shearer come once a year and costs less than £100 for them and some alpacas. If you create a small pen and give them a bit of hard feed regularly in that, then they are easy to observe/check for feet, fly strike etc and catch for worming.A small shelter is easy to construct and paving slabs give hard standing for bad weather.
I think cameroon sheep are a shedding breed but have no experience of them or their 'escapability'
skills.
Dood luck.
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Well, I am going to be blunt.
Do not get livestock unless you really love them or really need them. From what I have read, neither is true in your case. In the same way as I would advise someone looking for a dog that doesn't need walking and doesn't mind being left on its own to not get a dog, I will advise you to not get livestock.
I'm sorry i agree with Sally, having read your posts you want animals just so as your campsite will 'look' the part, i feel no real committment to them from you (we go travelling etc.......... ??? ) I would get a neighbour or local to graze a few sheep on your field and take care of them that way you get the aesthetics without the committment.
Sorry.
mandy :pig:
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I agree totally with the last couple of posts. My wife and i used to travel (alot) and now we keep livestock. it seems to us that the two are not compatible. having said that, a major reason that our livestock and land takes up so much of our time is because we want it that way. Much like so many on this site, We love this kind of life and although the actual hours spent trimming feet, drenching or tending to newborn lambs is probably not that huge, we spend a massive amount of time just poddling. if a saturday morning arrives and there isnt a clear task for the weekend I create one. Moving a gateway, cutting down thistles, mending a fence etc. etc. its what i love to do. i guess it might be possible to spend less time on my land and still look after the livestock, but having animals can at times be so blessed inconvenient, particularly fitting it all around my day job that, I dont know that i could do it unless I loved it
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"If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all...or rephrase it". All forums do have some issues and people do have off days. Call me old fashioned but I do not appreciate having my ethics publically questioned on the basis of a few quick notes I have posted online to find answers to questions. I admit this may have been misread as being cold, but this is a public forum where I am cautious about divulging private dreams, amitions and feelings regarding the future of our smallholding!
We ARE committed to having livestock, and having had close family who bred pedigree texiles on a local smallholding and two of whom also worked for the Ministry in animal health I am not unaware of the animal management issues. Likewise a good proportion of my friends have local dairy herds in excess of 350 cows. As such I have had infrequent hands-on experience of certain elements...helping with calving, lambing, feeding, bottle rearing, milking, shearing, administering drugs, feet work etc...but it is a totally different ball game when your living with them daily, doing the work (rather than just helping) and investigating different breeds on a totally different scale - hence my questions on here.
The reason for easycare is getting couple of sheep sheared in a prodimately intensive dairy area is very hard unless you do it yourself. My brother adored his Texiles, but I know he hated having to shear them...my thinking was that if it was a job I can reduce/remove via careful breed selection then this would only help with regard to animal welfare. Likewise, I think it is only a bonus if a breed is less prone to ailments...nobody likes seeing their animals sick, or paying the vets bills...if this is not a good trait to aspire to please state why.
We are not just after animals to "look" the part, it will no doubt help, but we DO also want animals for the sake fo keeping them, grazing and hopefully (once our experience has grown) for breeding and eating. We do know of a number of camp sites already that have animals and they get along fine, however thank you for raising that we may need to be extra vigilant regarding litter (although it's only up to 5 caravans, no facilities etc - so generally older couples) and uninvited feeding, extra fencing etc.
Many thanks for all the positive messages, but can people please bear in mind that this is only an internet forum, you don't know my full background nor experience, so please don't feel the need to post in a negative manner. I welcome criticism, but please do so politely and as if you were talking face to face. For example; rather than directly questions someones commitment highlight how much commitment is needed.
We're based near Nantwich, Cheshire. We bought our smallholding in April last year and since then have demolished the derelict barn and house. This April we started building the house, which is now a shell. The barn will get rebuilt when funds permit and the fields reseeded once the construction is complete. Needless to say we have mortgages coming out of our ears, we're living on a tuppence (missing weddings, family gatherings, our little girl only presently has wellies and crocs as shoes are too expensive!) and every spare moment is spent working on the farm. I hope it gives you an indication of the longer term committment we have to the project...although I shouldn't really feel the need to divulge all that on a forum where all I'm seeking is some friendly advice.
Apologies if this seems like a rant, but I love about what I have read on this forum is that it is a friendly forum. Lets try and keep it that way.
It's great to know the price of shearing...is there a price per sheep or a minimum cost?
Thanks,
Oly
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I also agree with Sally. I think you really need to appreciate just how much time and effort is involved in looking after livestock before you bite the bullet. It can be hard work - especially in winter time and at all times of the year, the animals you have will need your care and attention. It is a 365 day a year lifestyle, not something that can be picked up and put down as holidays and travelling dictates. Holidays and days out for me come second to my animals and when I do go away, it is only after a lot of planning in to who will look after my them for a week/fortnight. A busy travelling life does not combine well with keeping livestock and finding reliable care in your absence can not only be difficult, but also very expensive.
Perhaps thinking more along your DIY livery might be a good option, although beware that horse owners can be a demanding bunch and will expect a good level of service provided such as good stabling with lighting, 24/7 turnout in some cases, excellent fencing, storage for their hay/feed etc and the grassland to be managed correctly and kept free of ragwort etc. You will also need to have some superb insurance in place.
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Oly
Thank you for explaining your set up, you certainly have a lot on your plate and i know: been there done that, built a house, lived in a kezza, had no money etc so know where you are and after reading that i don't doubt your committment however i think you would still be biting off more than you could chew, animals are expensive things to keep ( ask my husband :innocent: :eyelashes: about my bills!) and an unforseen cost don't half throw a spanner in the works.... phone bill or get the vet out or winter school shoes or sheep meds kinda descisons so believe me when i say wait a while until you get on an even keel.
The hardest part of keeping animals is the day to day involvement required and as Zak said holidays become a distant memory if you can't find one to smallhold sit that is reliable, fit and knowledgable.
You asked for our opinions and we gave it to you straight which as a Yorkshire lass i would do to your face anyway ;D , come see me at the Cheshire Show next year :wave:
all the best whatever you decide.
mandy :pig:
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Thanks for the reply Mandy and the further comments. Our finance issues should be fine once we're there...it's just we're presently juggling a number of existing properties to at present get to our end goal. The idea being that once we're there all other properties will have been sold and we should actually be better off before we even open the campsite or holiday let. Thankfully we have plenty of family and friends locally who should be able to farm sit for us, and hopefully we'll also get a regular group of guests who may (with some teaching!) be willing to sit if we subsidise their holiday (and the phone number of our friend the vet!)!
One half of my family also hails from Yorkshire, with my Grandad farming and being the Ministry Inspector around Settle...so juggling animals and work is perhaps in the blood!
Cheers,
Oly
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It sounds like you may have friends and family nearby who could help if necessary. We started with Wiltshire Horn sheep because they don't need shearing, are a reasonable size and very docile. Ours would fed from the the hand after about a month. Our first ones cost £75 each but we have now found a farmer who sells for £50 each.
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You should read your own post, when you have stopped laughing.
Full time jobs
Self build + cottage
Campsite
Forget animals take hay off it this year and next get the self build out the way then lose the jobs then the animals.
My friend last week (they both work) one sheep got out they couldn't leave work, took 5 people and a dog to catch it mid afternoon mid week have you got that many friends that can/will help at the drop of a hat.
I did it once but probably not again
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Animals will only come when everything else is in place. And no, I can't see a problem with our plans. Both of our jobs are flexible with a large amount of working from home...plus it's only 4 sheep or 2 cows. My uncle did it for years with 30+ animals.
PS: why would I be laughing? Yet another cynical post, our plans really don't seem too much to other fellow smallholders round here. Maybe your jealous, or maybe your limiting my dreams via the imposition of your own failings? Either way please try to be positive in the future or just don't bother posting!
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and you want sheep that don't need shearing too.
So do most sensible people. :P
Others are right though - forget holidays. But anyway, an old farmer once said to me that if you needed a holiday, you were in the wrong job.
Wilts Horns shed fully, you could probably have a couple of them on your ground. If you wanted to feed sheep, I would suggest maybe 4-5/ac in summer and half that in winter but you will then have to feed them. If you didn't want to feed them its 3/ac summer and 1.5/ac winter.
Plenty of people work off the farm to make ends meet, that isn't a problem as I see it, but you will find you takr your 'holidays' at farm-sensetive times like lambing.
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back to the cattle discussion - on the shetland cattle websites SCBA - they state one acre of very good grass per beast during the summer. ie its to be rested all winter.
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So presumeably you need another acre to make hay or silage for that same beast through the winter? Or buy it in.
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and then another acre for the companion....
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Hi Oly
I like the ideas you have, it's what a lot of us are aspiring to or already do on our own little patches.
It does sound like you've got a lot on your plate and without wanting to sound very negative, I would say to be careful not to add too much more on. I think you need all your energy to go on current projects if for no other reason than that's how you'll pay for the animals you want.
IME Animals have an annoying habit of picking the worst time to break out or look ill or do something you don't want. A lot of things don't get finished or take twice as long because I have to stop and start. And for all the flexibility in the world you can't be in two places at once; as someone running a small farm on my own that is my biggest issue and the most stressful one. If no-one's home when something happens it's a real pain.
I'd agree that you could take some hay from the fields for now, it'll need to be cut anyway to keep it in good nick for future animals. But when things have calmed down a bit for you and you're going to be around a lot with fewer demands then why not get some sheep (or indeed cattle).
I did think you could start with some lambs, pick them up in the spring or early summer, keep them til they're ready to go to slaughter, they'll mow the grass while it's growing so you don't have to, then come winter the land can rest and so can you - you might even get a holiday in! I did like the comment that if you need one you're in the wrong job - ok if you're a full time farmer but modern day smallholders having a day job as well probably do need it!
The lambs won't need to be sheared, you can probably pick them up already vaccinated and even clik'd for the summer, so minimal intervention required from you, no expensive meds and injectors/applicators to buy, minimal feed cost maybe just to finish them, you can just enjoy them!
You don't even need to focus on picking the one right breed if you get different ones every year, it might help you decide what kind you'd like if you ever go on to breed them although with a very small acreage that may not be viable. You'll have meat for the freezer and skins for rugs, could be an income stream for the guests or just a pleasure to have for yourselves.
I recently bought a handful of lambs to add to my little flock who were already treated for everything, I won't need to do anything with them before they go to slaughter - a responsible breeder will advise you. I keep/breed Shetlands but these little guys are a mix of crosses bred for fibre so coloured Ryelands, some Corriedale, bit of Shetland, and they are a gorgeous bunch. I do have a few white ones but more of the coloured ones and it's nice to see a real mixture esp as I do want the fleece for wool.
I don't think you have the space for full grown cattle but similar to lamb, rose veal calves take anywhere between 6-10 months to reach slaughter weight depending on breed. There are threads on here which I have read as I was interested in doing this once we find a bit more land. They will need housing and feeding with concentrates and silage etc so more cost involved than the sheep, so perhaps when the barn is rebuilt it could be a goer if start up costs aren't a big factor then?
Good luck with whatever you decide to go for.
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My neighbour is the county coroner, so works full time. His wife works from home and they have 20 section B ponies, 40 portland sheep, and about 20 manx sheep plus four milking goats. They both have a holiday in the summer as a friend comes to stay to look after the animals.
I say if you want to do it you can. Just plan it well and you'll not fail. Go for it!
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For that matter I work full time, have 20 ewes and breed lots of duck, geese, guinea and chickens. I also take a summer holiday. I love the animals they are a pleasure and never a chore so I enjoy getting up extra early etc....
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I also work full time, have a small flock of 30 sheep, a horse, chickens and 3 dogs. I get up at 4am every day of the week. I take holiday at lambing time but also do manage a week or so away with my OH to visit his family in Madeira. It has taken me quite a while to find a dedicated and reliable house and animal sitter though, but I now have someone who I trust totally to look after everything for me whilst I am away. I don't look on my animals as a chore either as I love it - I am sat in an office each weekday and so being able to get outside each evening is magic. It really is a lifestyle though and you do need to be dedicated to do it - animals and land take a lot of looking after. I am sure that if Oly starts small and doesn't take on anything too ambitious with regards to the animals to start with they will be fine.
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That's brilliant! Many thanks for the great responses. We are planning on doing this only one step at a time so as to not overload us and learn as we go. First the house and holiday let will be complete. This year and last we had a local friend/farmer take the hay off the field but once the house/holiday let is complete the field will be reseeded (as it's had low spots raised, the ground source heat pump installed and the drainage field too). The the following season would be the earliest to introduce campers, and then if all is still under control then a couple of animals...so still a way off, but we're keen on getting as much information up front to ensure we can plan and ensure any all elements of the wider project mesh in nicely (e.g. fencing along with the garden).
I like the idea of just getting lambs in to fatten up over the summer, but then when enquiring on here a lot of people say that they can be hard work to keep from dying! Or am I confusing the actual age of lamb (i.e. cade lambs that require bottle feeding then grass, as opposed to getting lambs slightly older solely on grass? If this is the case what age lambs would I be looking at?)?
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You could maybe get some castrated boys of a more primitive breed as these are normally kept into a second year and go off as hoggett lamb, these should be inexpensive and a good toe in the water and delicious :-)) eg Hebridean, Shetland, castlemilk, Soays etc.
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and then another acre for the companion....
So for two cattle, that's 4 acres (if you're growing your own winter fodder.)
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Store lambs, which are lambs reared on their mothers, now weaned and needing to grow on, typically start being sold up here around mid August, so they're maybe 4 months old. Depending on breed, they may fatten by Oct/Nov, or early in the New Year, or not till next spring.
It can be perplexing that teeny little rabbitty things are selling in the store ring for as much or more than their finished peers in the fat ring next door - but the thinking is that those little squibs will fatten on summer grass and be ready to cash in when prices are at their highest.
We usually calculate that a store lamb will cost us £10 to grow on, on top of his purchase price. So look back at your local mart reports for the time of year yours would be ready to send away, and see what prices were compared to now. It's no guarantee, but it's the best you'll be able to do! Alternatively, if the lambs are for you to eat and for meat to sell to your campers, then it doesn't much matter what you pay for them as stores, you would just set the ppk as appropriate when you come to sell. Budget around £25/head for slaughter and butchering. Carcase weight could be as low as 15kg for a primitive like a Castlemilk Moorit, up to 26kgs+ for a larger (but slow-growing) breed like a Cheviot.
Yes, you are far more likely to experience problems with cade lambs than with stores that have been reared to about 4 months on their mothers.
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and then another acre for the companion....
So for two cattle, that's 4 acres (if you're growing your own winter fodder.)
and shetlands are expected to eat 5 bales each per winter, if that helps anyone. we got 8 big bales off an acre but it needed reseeding so wasnt the optimum amount.
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We feed at a level of about half a small bale of hay per cow per day, so that's approx 75-90 small bales per cow per winter.
We reckon about 40 small bales to the tonne, so round about 2T hay per cow per winter.
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Brilliant info! Many thanks people!! Lots to calculate!