The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: rispainfarm on August 18, 2013, 10:49:33 am
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This is not right is it, yet he sounds adament. The following was taken off a forum.
Feeding catering waste to pigs is still illegal much to the delight of the big commercial operations selling pig feed but feeding your pigs your own kitchen scraps and waste is legal and safe as long as it doesn't contain meat. People have been feeding pigs our waste food for 1000's of years- it's one of the big plusses of raising pigs in that all food waste is productively used to create new food in the form of pork - but as you say, in 2001, after a major foot and mouth outbreak, the feeding of catering waste was scape goated in what I think was an overly knee jerk reaction. Given the concerns, what should have been stipulated was that all catering waste should be treated to ensure its safety (like heating it to 100 oC for 1 hour) before being fed to pigs.
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based on other information i have read on here
anything that has passed through a kitchen is illegal to feed to pigs in any way shape or form...
i am sure someone will be along soon to quote the relevant legislation for you!!!
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depends where in the world the forum is and where the pig keeper is otherwise if in the UK they need a reminder of the regs as they puts us all at risk >:(
Mandy :pig:
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The definition is kitchen waste. So sit in the garden and top and tail your veg then its garden waste.
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Which forum Linda ? Can you post a link or pm me please ?
Of course it's completely possible that it's someone not UK based, rules and regulations are different worldwide.
Strangely, on looking in the Welfare recommendations it doesn't actually seem to state that it's illegal anymore ???
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/69369/pb7950-pig-code-030228.pdf (https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/69369/pb7950-pig-code-030228.pdf)
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/0039/00391633.pdf (http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/0039/00391633.pdf)
However, on the AVLA and Defra site it does have this page
http://www.defra.gov.uk/ahvla-en/keeping-animals/illegal-feeding/ (http://www.defra.gov.uk/ahvla-en/keeping-animals/illegal-feeding/)
Fairly clear I'd say. :thumbsup:
Even if it wasn't illegal, it would be a stupid move (IMHO) to feed kitchen waste.
There's a rise of African swine fever being reported in Russia and it's so easily transmitted across the whole of Europe via Wild Boar, a LOT of this European pork comes to the UK and is cooked in UK kitchens - would you really want to risk causing illness to your pigs and a major disease outbreak in the UK ?
Ignorance is no defence and to do it deliberately? Well, it's just completely irresponsible I think. :rant: Sure, you might save a few pounds on feed bills, but what's the real cost and potential implications ?
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Reading what else he says, I get the feeling he is in the uk. I actually told him he was wrong and posted a para out of the animal health regulations on micro pigs, because he is referring specifically to pet pigs. The reason I looked at the forum and commented was because the article mentioned a friend of mine and then talked to Tracy ward mentioning giving her pet pigs kitchen waste swill, organic mind you lol
Here is the link
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/aug/17/pigs-a-british-obsession (http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/aug/17/pigs-a-british-obsession)
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Oh, you shouldn't have posted that ::) ;)
How does that song go ?........ 'I predict a riot' isn't it ? :innocent:
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lol HH, yes I am thinking exactly that you naughty naughty girl. :D Did you read my further posts on the subject and pet pigs.
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Looking at the guys website, http://www.naturalpigfarming.com/ (http://www.naturalpigfarming.com/) I still can't make up my mind where this guy is. He mentions english links to pig sites, but I have never heard of this website and it has a bit of an american feel to it. What do you think HH?
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When you click on the link for books in his website the prices all come up in USD so definitely american
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Well in that case, what he says about feeding waste food could be right if he is in the US, but I am wondering if he is an american in England, as most of the links he has direct to english sites.
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ok, OP here with the law
Quoting for England, although similar rules apply for wales, Scotland and NI.
This is to implement EU regs, although Eire still allows kitchen waste- one EU rule, loads of different implementations !
Feeding catering waste comes under the Animal by-products regulations 2005, Part 3 deals with catering waste
11.5
It is an offence for any person to allow livestock to have access to any catering waste or other animal by-product except—
(a)manure;
(b)milk or colostrum;
(c)digestive tract content that has been applied to land provided that livestock are not allowed on to the land for at least three weeks after application; or
(d)compost produced and applied to land in accordance with regulation 16 provided the conditions of that regulation are complied with.
(6) It is an offence for any person to allow any animal to have access to material derived from catering waste or other animal by-product in a biogas or composting plant, except that it is not an offence for wild birds to have access to the material during the secondary or subsequent phase of composting.
(7) In this regulation “livestock” means all farmed animals, and any other ruminant animals, pigs and birds (other than wild birds).
Defra's strong interpretation is that "catering" includes domestic premises, Eire takes the view that "catering" means commercial premises.
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Have to say, I think this is rather like the rule banning us from taking liquids on flights. The actual risk is negligible.
As long as you use common sense - don't feed your pigs on left over sheep spinal columns - then they'll enjoy things like out of date vegetables from your fridge, extra eggs you have etc etc.
If you're sane, then you'll keep the meat in your kitchen separate from other things, so the risk of contamination is negligible, and the risk of there actually being any disease etc even lower.
It's also "illegal" to use your mobile phone in a petrol station, despite there never having been any incident or evidence to suggest it's dangerous.
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Re mobile phone in petrol station. Wasn't there an incident many years ago where a car caught fire or blew up becuase the woman was using a mobile. Could be speaking a load of codswallop :-\but I am sure I remember something like that.
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Re: the EU laws.
How amazing is it that all those people in Brussels can write such sloppy rules that allows countries to define catering waste how they choose. My impression is that DEFRA is far more diligent ( spelling help please) than other European agencies.
I bet that the average pig farmer in Romania Poland etc have any idea what the rules are.
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My impression is that DEFRA is far more diligent ( spelling help please) than other European agencies.
My impression is that every country thinks like that... We are much stricter than everybody else! Fact is that every country interprets all sorts of things somewhat differently; some are stricter on some things, some on other rules. I don't think seeing all the others as baddies and us as the goodies is helpful.
On another note: I don't like how they automatically equate catering waste as animal byproduct. As far as I am aware, even catering waste from vegan restaurants can't be fed to livestock.
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On another note: I don't like how they automatically equate catering waste as animal byproduct. As far as I am aware, even catering waste from vegan restaurants can't be fed to livestock.
Yes, you're quite right in that Ina.
It's not about whether we agree with the rules & regulations - because, of course there are a lot of sensible folk who'd feed responsibly and then there are also the not so sensible ones ::) The whole point is that because of 'legislation' it's an illegal practice.
Obviously there are lots of examples of law breaking which happen and it's up to each individual whether or not they choose to obey them. I was brought up getting constantly reminded that "you're a Lindsay, if you do anything you shouldn't be doing, you'll get caught" it's kinda stuck with me into adulthood ;)
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I was brought up getting constantly reminded that "you're a Lindsay, if you do anything you shouldn't be doing, you'll get caught" it's kinda stuck with me into adulthood ;)
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Me too!
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Hmm have had a look at article and comments and also the natural pigs website.
One suspects Tracy Worcester means organic veg waste from the estates gardens so hasn't probably never been near a kitchen, just an unfortunate choice of description by her to describe as a swill bucket ::) The other website is a puzzle there are no clues as to which country it originates thought the pictures do not look to be from the UK possibly US or European, in the contact us part there is only an e-mail submission form, no landline, no land based address, the website is also new done in 2013 and i'm suspecting those numpties Compassion in World farming or something like that, its sounds like their kind of rhetoric.
Would be interested to hear what DEFRA made of it?
Puzzling ???
Mandy :pig:
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http://www.factory-farming.com/pig_farms.html (http://www.factory-farming.com/pig_farms.html)
It turns out that Mark Cunliffe, an Englishman living in Thailand, has provided us with a sustainable model for raising pigs in a smaller area while maintaining space, cleanliness and the environment to allow his pigs to be pigs.
To see how Mark Cunliffe is doing it, visit his wonderful website at, http://www.naturalpigfarming.com/, (http://www.naturalpigfarming.com/,) and browse to your heart's content. Be sure to check out his pig humor page during your visit.
So he's living in Thailand, where I'm pretty sure isn't wrapped up in a billion miles of red tape like we are.
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http://www.factory-farming.com/pig_farms.html (http://www.factory-farming.com/pig_farms.html)
It turns out that Mark Cunliffe, an Englishman living in Thailand, has provided us with a sustainable model for raising pigs in a smaller area while maintaining space, cleanliness and the environment to allow his pigs to be pigs.
To see how Mark Cunliffe is doing it, visit his wonderful website at, http://www.naturalpigfarming.com/, (http://www.naturalpigfarming.com/,) and browse to your heart's content. Be sure to check out his pig humor page during your visit.
So he's living in Thailand, where I'm pretty sure isn't wrapped up in a billion miles of red tape like we are.
I'm pretty sure Thailand's animal welfare standards are not the best either :innocent:
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One of the sad facts of tighter legislation is that for us raising pigs and even breaking even is nigh on impossible, due to the rocketing cost of feed. We have always been meticulous in keeping to the regs as we understand them, which is nothing containing animal product and nothing that has been in a kitchen. As stated previously distinguishing between garden waste ( e.g. shelling peas in the garden) and kitchen waste (doing it in the kitchen) is simple enough and easy to adhere to. I do feel depressed at the need to assume that common sense no longer prevails, but in my experience it often doesnt and the risks are just too high.
whenever we have had pigs, which we tend to alternate years to give the ground a chance to recover they do become a visitor attraction round these parts. I have lost count of the number of locals who turn up on the door step with slop bins, full of old bones, gravy, mouldy bread etc.etc, and look rather taken aback when we have to decline their offerings. The worst moment was last summer when a chap turned up outside with a bin liner full of dead chickens, fully feathered and all, instructing me to bung them to the pigs- "pigs love a bit of chicken". He clearly thought i was an idiot.
I was tempted to suggest that our hungry pigs loved anything- i'm sure they'd eat me if a lay still long enough !!
whilst such fools remain I sadly can't see how else we can try to keep some sort of control on it all.
personally i am far more horrified that there are still those who throw whole chickens and left over bones to their pigs than the prospect that there might have been a bit of a horse in my beef burger
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Wholeheartedly agree with you Devonlad.
You can have all the rules and legislation you like, but you can't legislate against stupidity ::)
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For anyone on twitter @ThePigIdea is a campaign to put food waste back on the menu for pigs in Britain, Eu and worldwide. They are trying to enlist celebrities to endorse their plans.
On Newsnight tonight Zoe Davies from NPA together with representatives from the Pig Idea will be debating this issue. The NPA are launching their own campaign- don't kill me with kindness.
Once again small scale pig keepers are being blamed so NPA are targeting this campaign at them. Defra and AHVLA are convinced that so called hobby farmers are a threat to pig health in this country so I hope this does not come across in the programme.
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Newsnight sounds like a good watch.
My point above may have not been that clear but I was critisising those who write such loose EU regs rather than how individial countries interpret them - also the UK is a very small country and in larger countries it may be possible to get away with old practice regardless of new rules.
By the way - I read that 80% of the worlds fish catch ( by weight) goes into animal feed. does this mean that mechanically chewed up fish guts are in my pig nuts as "protein" ? Any ideas?
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I don't know about in France but over here we got scared off including any animal protein in feedstuffs and I think the protein in pig feed is now of plant origin - mainly soya.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23769171 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23769171)
I know that I'd be OK feeding swill to my pigs but my concern would be about the unscrupulous, the uncaring, the idiots and the down right lazy. I can see where the proponents of this idea are coming from but?
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What makes me spitting mad :rant: :rant: :rant: is that it's because we can't control the disease in the foodstuffs in our own food chain that we have to outlaw feeding pig swill. How not green can we get? We ship contaminated food from all over the globe, mix it untraceably into all kinds of so-called food for humans and their pets, and so render it dangerous to use our waste food to create pork.
The world This country has literally gone mad.