The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Pets & Working Animals => Horses, ponies, donkeys & mules => Topic started by: DuPlessis14 on August 13, 2013, 05:47:19 pm
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I've got a Section D Mare, and I'm wondering what is the best/most decent age to put her into foal?
The reason I'm asking is, she looks after our yearling, and protects her and she would make an amazing mum by the way she acts around out yearling. Yes she is only 2 so I wouldn't even think about it for a good few years yet, but I just wanted to know.
I don't like reading the web, only forum's and I think this would be the best place to ask, the web really tells so many different stories, and would prefer to read a few different of people.
Thankyou
:thumbsup:
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Hi, depends entirely on what suits you best... I breed a few horses and I tend to put them to the stallion at 2 and a half and they foal at three and a half, I leave the foals on for 6 months and then finish breaking in the mum's a month after weaning. I did a natural horsemanship course and they said that having a foal helped the mare's grow up and learn about responsibility... mine are mainly polo ponies so after this first foal they may not have another for a few years! Everyone is different and there is no real right answer although you will always get people who are convinced their way is the only way haha. Fact is, that once they are well developed and of a good size etc (but defo past the age of two) they can have a foal whenever you like...
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Hi
Thankyou for the reply, well thats made me see sense, I will defo think about putting her into foal either soon or before the end of the year, thankyou
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you are very welcome, I am glad that my advice was useful for you :) keep us posted!!
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My mare was bred as a 3 year old before she was broken herself (not by me) so not unusual. Can't remember if foal was born as a 3 yo or when she was 4. I'd want to be sure she was well grown herself otherwise she'll give more to foal at her expense. Better than getting fat for 3 years! And if she has good temperment then definetely something I would consider.
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http://www.worldhorsewelfare.org/needtobreed (http://www.worldhorsewelfare.org/needtobreed)
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Personally, i would not put a native breed pony in foal at such a young age, as they are slower to mature physically than other breeds/types such as the polo ponies mentioned above - she will still have plenty of growing to do herself.
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Before you even think of putting your mare in foal do you have a long term plan . Selling youngstock just now is almost impossible. People want a ready to ride horse so have you the time and money to rear and bring on a youngster.. Natives are slow to mature so 2 is too young. Do you have the knowledge to care for an in foal mare. it is possible to buy a yearling cheaper than you can breed one at the moment.
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Earliest I've ever done with a native was 4, they aren't as fast developing as warmblooded breeds and growing and feeding a foal is an 18 month to 2 year long job that can seriously affect any mare let alone a very young one. They are also not always mature enough to foal easily and do the mothering full time so you can be putting problems for yourself in the way one way or the other, if not both. Also heard of back problems in a youngster served too soon, I wouldn't back a 2yo with a human weight on let alone that of a stallion..
Lots of folk will tell you otherwise, it's a choice you make. Not one I'd make for at least 2 years personally, as already said you can buy a yearling cheaper than the cost of breeding a decent saleable/usable foal and rearing it, you can probably actually buy a ready to back 4yo for the same money at the moment and one you can see the conformation and gender and colour of unlike the prospective foal.. It's not a good time to be a native breeder :-\
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3 is what most cob breeders used when I had horses. They have the foal in their 4th summer.
But as has been said, there are so many going for nothing, or a couple of hundred pounds, my mum was given a beautiful section c mare last month. Plan to keep the baby for at least five years, till its riding well. Work out how much it'll cost over that time, including plenty of shoeing (even if it doesn't need shoes, people want a horse that's experienced in everything.) add 20 percent contingency and £600 emergency vet bills, for the five years. I know it's a hobby, but horses are a hole in the ground when it comes to cash and its worth being realistic before you commit to a project on this scale, but best of luck to you, I'm sure you'll put more time and care into it than many breeders do.
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Maybe sound like we are trying to put you off but there is something to be said about breeding a foal to rear and bring on for yourself. first of all you will know it has been fed and wormed to give it the best start in life. People who take short cuts on this just pass on problems to some poor soul who buys their foal ,youngster. Long term worm damage is a killer. Then you have a bond of trust right from day one, that is worth more than I can say. The biggest mistake I ever made was to buy a 5 year old from Ireland who turned out to be so screwed up that I spent 18 months retraining him, never again. You will know that your youngster has not been badly treated or brought on too fast and been left with mental damage. Its a slow process but very rewarding if you are breeding your future horse.
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she should be at least 3.
foals are selling for rock bottom prices so if i was you id wait 5 yrs at least and train her and enjoy her first.
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We have highlands and try to put ours in foal at 3 if we deem them mature enough, sometimes not until they are 5. However we are easing off at the moment as we have enough of our own and while there is still a market for highlands it is slowing down. Works out a lot cheaper, particularly with the Welsh cob/pony market which is saturated beyond belief at present to buy a youngster and at least then you can choose what you are getting.
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This will give you an idea of the market, http://horsegossip.proboards.com/board/49/mountain-moorland-large-breeds-sale (http://horsegossip.proboards.com/board/49/mountain-moorland-large-breeds-sale)
Unless you thought it was going to be gobsmackingly good I would not put a welsh in foal.
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Just hijacking this thread a little, I have a section A mare who was successfully shown when younger and is now about 13 is this too old to have a first ( and only) foal. Foal would not be for sale but I really enjoyed the handling and showing of Beth so would really like to do it again especially as I have resigned myself to remaining on the ground.
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Just hijacking this thread a little, I have a section A mare who was successfully shown when younger and is now about 13 is this too old to have a first ( and only) foal. Foal would not be for sale but I really enjoyed the handling and showing of Beth so would really like to do it again especially as I have resigned myself to remaining on the ground.
i sold a mare who was 16 and her new owner bred from her 18, and she had another 2 foals after that. she was a very healthy fit arab. i get a vet check first. things like melanomas under tail/teats etc can cause issues.
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I'm just buying my youngest daughter a 6 year old in foal Shetland for her 2ND birthday
the mare has had 4 foals already and is due to foal 2014
so shes been a brood mare from 2
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Agree with shygirl, absolutely no reason why a mare of that age shouldn't breed, I have had a first foal from a 16 year old mare, but a vet check first is a good idea - external, internal and a scan, to check for good reproductive conformation, and also any age related changes which might limit her chance of getting in foal. Like humans, the age at which these begin vary greatly.
Not sure if I am reading right about the shetland, but she is 6 years old and about to have her 5th foal? So she was covered as a yearling? Really hoping I have read that wrong!
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My 16 year old maiden Sec B is in foal for 2014 - no issues with getting her to take :-)
I would not consider putting a Sec D in foal until at least 4 - Welsh ones are slow to mature!
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If you think about it like this...
Any horse/pony only stops developing at 5-6 years old, no matter what breed. (there are studies to prove that)
A human stops developing at 18-20 years old.
Putting a 2 year old filly in foal is no different to getting a 9 year old human pregnant. Yes some manage ok, but others die, purely because they were too young.
Your horse will live to 30 if you are lucky, why rush her now when there will be plenty of time yet to let her be a mother.
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Horse don't have comparison in human, really. In wild, about 2-3 year old fillys are getting pregnant. Normally breeding starts from 3-4 years of age without any problems, because female is matured enough.
I knew an arab mare who had her first foal at the age of 5 (only because she was in racing) and last one at the age of 27, sixteen foals in total. She lived up to 35.
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Totally agree ecogypsy! No comparison to humans at all. My old neighbour breeds section B's and they all have their first foals at around 3 and a half or at the latest 4 (having got pregnant 11 mnths before of course). They go on to have foals into their late teens and sometimes 20's. He has fantastic stock which has been exported to mainland europe and even as fa a field as canada where they have gone on to win many prizes and have happy lives. Its all a matter of personal preferance at the end of the day. If in doubt about if your filly or mare is ready to breed just consult a vet.
Having said this, it is just my opinion and I respect others' ways of doing things.
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Well in my opinion I just think it's great that the horsemeat market is going to be well supplied in the future. I think it's refreshing that people are starting to treat brood mares like sheep, pigs and cattle and breed for the dinner table. Of course sheep and cattle don't have 16 to 20 pregnancies, they don't tend to live that long (I have no experience with pigs so i don't know how many they have before they are slaughtered).
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Horse meat market is already very well supplied by overproduction of thoroughbred horses. My neighbour buys them from Newmarket and sells them on to the meat man. Probably he gets better money than if hes selling his cobs as riding and driving ponies.
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He probably does EcoGypsy, and the market is also well supplied with Welsh ponies off the hill, Dartmoor and Exmoor ponies, cobs, showjumpers, family ponies and all the horses and ponies that after a lifetime of good service become unwanted 'companion' animals and animals bred for the show ring that don't make the top 5%. Sad i call it.
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Again, I'd ask you to read this before you breed from your mare. I'm sure she's lovely but WHW takes in over 200 neglected horses each year. There are dozens more rescue centres and many, many horses being sold for meat.
Please don't think that your one foal won't make any difference. It will.
And if we are comfortable with "professional" breeders breeding dozens of foals, then we need to get over ourselves regarding horse meat and press for more horse abattoirs in the UK.
http://www.worldhorsewelfare.org/needtobreed (http://www.worldhorsewelfare.org/needtobreed)
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Again, I'd ask you to read this before you breed from your mare. I'm sure she's lovely but WHW takes in over 200 neglected horses each year. There are dozens more rescue centres and many, many horses being sold for meat.
Please don't think that your one foal won't make any difference. It will.
And if we are comfortable with "professional" breeders breeding dozens of foals, then we need to get over ourselves regarding horse meat and press for more horse abattoirs in the UK.
http://www.worldhorsewelfare.org/needtobreed (http://www.worldhorsewelfare.org/needtobreed)
I agree, we have decided against breeding our sec A, on reflection my grandchildren were going to be too big for the foal by the time it was old enough to be ridden, I really don't need another mouth to feed and the market it swamped with welshies. I couldn't bear to sell something on and not know how it was doing, I am in touch with the owners of the only horses that I have bred and sold.
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its been reported that at Beeston sales this week, horses and ponies were going for £5 each. They aren't even guaranteed a swift death at an abbatoir now Red Lion are closed down (not the only one but still) More than a few will end up on a lorry to Europe and others will end up at horrors like Spindles Farm until they can be offloaded. Everyone should be thinking very carefully before breeding right now-you can buy what you want but you can't always breed it and then what?
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Theoretically, if you taking/sending a horse or pony abroad, the animal needs vet's papers via defra, cost almost 60 quid, and horse must be over 14.2hh or have a special valuation certificate, or being registered with breed association, before it will be allowed out from the country. And of course, passport signed "not for human consumption". How they're getting over these rules I have no idea.
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How they're getting over these rules I have no idea.
For some folk, rules are just a challenge
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Theoretically, if you taking/sending a horse or pony abroad, the animal needs vet's papers via defra, cost almost 60 quid, and horse must be over 14.2hh or have a special valuation certificate, or being registered with breed association, before it will be allowed out from the country. And of course, passport signed "not for human consumption". How they're getting over these rules I have no idea.
they are and they have been for years-many of them go through Ireland, or used to. The importing of inadequately health checked horses is also a grave concern.