The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Goats => Topic started by: goosepimple on August 06, 2013, 08:01:05 pm
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Thanks - pygmy goat kid, 10 weeks old, fine earlier today, now yelling in pain - doesn't want to stand up much, calling out all the time, not interested in her tea, can't settle, lying down with head down too. Looks like perhaps a sore tummy? Bottom end perhaps a little skitty but nothing really, normal coloured poo I can see. Perhaps constipated but perhaps the other way. If she stands up she looked a bit strained.
This ringing any bells with anyone? Only thing that was 'different' today was my putting out some flaked maize (like cornflakes for animals) at lunch time as everyone seemed to be hungry. She had her usual milk (bottle fed) then and takes little solid after that. Likely she had some but then there's usually some of that in the sheep crunch they have at mealtimes so don't see it could have harmed her (?)
She's very unhappy. If you have any advice, many thanks.
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Sorry GP - I wouldn't guess/risk it - I'd take her to the vet asap - they can go downhill so quickly - hope all is well soon :fc:
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Hmmm, reluctant to do that straight away Brucklay - if she stands up she is straining with back legs out behind her, back arched a bit.
I'm inclined to have a gut feeling of it's tummy ache / wind? (excuse pun).
I've left her with her mum and aunty and they're all settling down to sleep. She was calling me though as I left, she looks tired but unhappy I would say. Worry worry.
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Does sound like tummy pain Amanda, sorry cant offer any advice but hope she will be ok :fc:
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Thanks Anne, going out in 20 mins to try and give her time to settle if she can.
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Is she still yelling in pain, hope it is just a sore tummy, a while back I had a young goat that had a twisted gut but she wasnt as young as 10 weeks, she howled and howled, it was awful. Fingers crossed for you both
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Nothing conclusive that it sounds like I'm afraid. Does sound like her tummy is sore. You are right, the flaked maize would be fine, so no issues there.
Does her tummy look bloated, more rounded than normal?
Beth
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Bloat? Could the the maize.
Syringe about 20ml of olive oil and then another 20ml of - a teaspoon of baking powder mixed in water - and see how she goes. It settles any acid and relieves the gas (breaks down the frothy bubbles so that they can fart/burp it out.
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did she get barley? we lost a sheep to too much barley once as it began fermenting. vet pumped stomach with water.
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Thanks B, yes just been out and she 'feels' bloated - have been googling and bloat has come up lots but there are degrees of how bloated ::) She's lying on her side with back legs out straight and crying now and then - there is obviously some sort of pain there. Don't see skitty bum so more inclined to think constipation. Its that vet or not thing at 9.30pm or wait and see how she is in the morning, it's getting dark here now and not sure what to do. Think I'll phone vet just now anyway.
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Sorry jaykay and shygirl our posts clashed. No barley shygirl and will go out and do that now Jaykay and see how it goes til the morning.
Thanks all will post a.m. :fc:
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When my kid had belly ache a week or so ago, he was yawning alot and scracthing his tummy. He didnt do as you describe though :( I just stood him on the a-frame (front feet on the a frame and feet on the floor) so he was stretched and slightly elevated. That seemed to releive some of his discomfort. I also gave him a teaspoon of bicarb in a bit of water and popped it in a bottle. He was right as rain within an hour or so. Good luck with your little one.
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Thanks for that, OH and myself just syringed in the elixer (got most of it down) and made sure she was settled, she wasn't crying when we left so that makes me feel more positive. OH thinks she will be jet propelled after that. Thanks all :fc: why aren't there any livestock that can speak it would make things so much easier ::) see you on the flipside.
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I would go out again late at night to check on her, if she isn't any better and still crying out in pain it may be enterotoxaemia. I don't want to worry you overly, but it doesn't always have diarrhoea with it, but some of the things you listed above are also signs of enterotox. Let's hope she is better in the morning :fc:
If she is bloated trying to walk her around and massaging her belly is also helpful.
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Hope she is much better by now. I know how helpless you feel when your animal is in pain but can't tell you about it. :hug:
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I've had lambs with bloat and the ginger oil mix worked well with them,plus a lot of rumen massage, but I've not had a kid with bloat - but I guess they would be vocal - hope she is settling now :fc:
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In my humble opinion......I've bred goats for 40 years & therefore have a little experience !.........NO kid with bloat symptoms should ever be left without Veterinary care for more than 2 hours from the start.
Gut linings can perforate very quickly .........result dead kid.
Kids do get themselves into difficult situations.....but anything exhibiting signs of pain, is VERY serious.
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Hmmm, thank you all, that's all a bit worrying.
Went out this morning and she was happy to see me, didn't want her bottle, not jumping about as usual but ok I would say, better than last night. She feels less of a pressurised volcano than she did last night that's certain.
Was considering syringing some warm water into her. It would be nice if it were just wind of course and it made its way out over the next day or so but having considered your comments (scarey but appreciated)I think I will call the vet in half an hour.
Our usual goat knowledgeable vet is on holiday (of course) so it's always a bit worrying just how much the others will know (basic principles / guesswork).
Thanks all.
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The worrying sign to me now ......is reluctance for a bottle. Call the Vet.
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Yup, he says she sounds seriously ill and to get her in straight away. Does sound like enterotoxaemia as symptoms fit the description I read. Ugh :fc:
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Let us know how it goes...
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Fingers crossed.... :fc:
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Thank you wonderful TASers. :hug:
Vet given her Betamox antibiotic, Flunixin which is an anti-inflamitory and Combivit B vitamin. some good screams with 3 needles ;D
She's stopped meowing like a cat and has eaten some nice short green sweet guinea pig hay and some clean tap water ;) but doesn't want her milk yet.
Vet says oil and water/bicarb was good Jaykay, she was letting out some good gas in the car on the way to the vets. Says to put a teaspoon of live yoghurt in her milk to get the rhumen going again. Generally she looks much more settled and sitting in her usual stance enjoying the sun.
Will keep an eye on her but she looks on the up definitely.
Thanks all. :wave:
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Good, glad to hear she seems to be feeling better :thumbsup: Lol on letting out the gas in the car :D
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I always use yoghurt post antibiotic...............seems to settle the gut quicker............most of the calf rumen preparations don't work on goats & are a waste of valuable time.
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What is so valued on TAS is how knowledgeable and experienced some of you are, we novices are so lucky to have your input. Sure the vets could learn a thing or too also :D
Thanks again everyone, she's taking milk now too and back to stampeeding me again :D
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Thats a relief
:thumbsup:
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You are lucky, enterotox rarely has a positive outcome... hope she continues to improve :fc:
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So glad to hear this news.
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What a relief, and we learn so much from our more experienced friends, thank you all for being there at all hours!
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Really pleased to hear that she is better :relief:
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That's great - really glad to hear she's on the mend :thumbsup:
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For those of you who could learn from this (as I have):
vet says that enterotox often happens when farmers don't introduce new foodstuffs gradually enough, just sudden change in diet can cause overeating / fermentation in the gut which produces massive gas stress, cattle sometimes need their stomachs pumped to get the problematic foodstuffs out.
I had put out flaked maize for the goats and the sheep at lunch time - not a thing I do often but everyone seemed partic hungry the other day, hounding me for something so I put a bit out. Our little goat must have helped herself a bit more than usual (perhaps liked the taste) and this resulted in the fermentation gas resulting in the problem.
If it is left too long it could become fatal so as Anke says, we were lucky. Lesson learnt!
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Experienced goat keepers know how to change over feedstuffs................novices should allow up to 7-10days to switch from type of feed to another. Always feed a lot of bulk such as readi grass, Just grass, mollichaff etc, not many goats will readily eat Alfa A...it is Lucerne which can taste a little bitter.
Maize is not recommended on its own in any case.
When you buy new goats.......always get some of the feed the animal has been used to.....they are stressed at the change anyway so familiar feed is a comfort.
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My lot love readigrass = its their favourite of all the chaffs etc. I am always very careful, even if I have to change goat mix, if the shop has not got my usual sort. I mix it with the usual feed until they are used to it. Again, going into winter, I feed sugar beet, and introduce it gradually to the females. I am a great believer in fibre, and bulk feeding, and always feed hay, even in summer (although we have struggled for good hay this year as it was so wet last winter).
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Actually enterotox is not always caused by too swift a change to new feed stuffs - I lost a 6-month old kid (vaccinated and all) to it last year, and there was no change in diet at all... he was dead in less than 24 hours. It was possibly caused by over-eating on green stuff, but again nothing out of the normal was offered and none of the others fell ill. (and I took him to the vet too, and he couldn't diagnose anything in particular, but gave him the usual AN, AI and VitB stuff anyway...)
Amanda - you have been lucky, but every goatkeeper - inexperienced or not - has kids that fall ill from time to time... Great to hear she is better.
PS.: My kids this year often leave the maize behind in their bowl, they have it in their mix...
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Thanks, I'm assuming she ate too much maize but again, it is in the sheep crunch (they prefer to goat mix) and she usually avoids it and eats the wee bits :D so don't know, looks like something fermented anyway she looked like an overinflated balloon poor thing. Back to normal now though - all in the learning experience once again ::)
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This is what we lost a sheep to. Glad she recovered.