The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Pets & Working Animals => Dogs => Topic started by: doganjo on July 31, 2013, 11:03:27 pm
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Item in local paper today. Rabies alarm over illegal puppy sales. An 8 week old Yorkshire terrier was purchased at Thainstone mart Inverurie at the car boot sale, he is part of a litter that has been smuggled into the north east from Lithuania. When taken to the vet it was discovered he had not been properly vaccinated and the vet had informed the police. The puppy has been seized from a property in Fraserburgh and is now in quarantine till a decision is made on what will happen to it. BIG QUESTION WHERE IS THE REST OF THE LITTER.
Buy from a responsible breeder, with health tested stock and not from a car boot sale. For heavens sake we will have rabies here in no time!
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Oh I saw a thing on this with the animal health lot at Heathrow, Animal Airport? Anyway they were going all over London tracking down illegal puppies, sold in pet shops but brought in from abroad. They took the puppies from the unsuspecting new owners to be quarantined but then gave them back after, the inspector lady was as upset as the new owners.
Rabies could well be a problem here in future if this isn't sorted out, I can see how they'd get in, border crossings like ferry terminals aren't particularly thorough...we declared our cats and dogs coming in from Europe, they were all chipped and passported. BUT had we decided to hide an animal under a layer of our belongings, they wouldn't have known. They didn't ask me to unpack the car or trailer at Dover and I could have easily smuggled stuff in, like a load of duty free booze I had stashed away at the front of the trailer cos it was over my entitlement :innocent:
Do we need vehicle scanners or heat detectors?
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It's always been easy to smuggle animals into this country. I remember the rabies adverts in the 70's showing how to smuggle dogs in on the ferry!
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It's always been easy to smuggle animals into this country. I remember the rabies adverts in the 70's showing how to smuggle dogs in on the ferry!
That doesn't make it right - if stupid people didn't buy puppies from illegal sources then there would be no trade.
ONLY ever buy from a reputable breeder who has done the ALL the recommended health checks for the relevant breed - AND even cross breeds.(health checks for both parents, even if different breeds)
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I'm not saying it's right but the idea that "we will have rabies here in no time" is - IMHO - a bit hysterical since people have been smuggling animals onto this island for a long time.
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I'm not saying it's right but the idea that "we will have rabies here in no time" is - IMHO - a bit hysterical since people have been smuggling animals onto this island for a long time.
But don't you see it could happen at any time? - one puppy from that litter mentioned could be carrying it now! They don't know where they are!
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We shouldn't be importing litters of pups when we already have far too many dogs in this country! Over 8000 strays a year are killed in pounds :-(
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Exactly Shep.
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We shouldn't be importing litters of pups when we already have far too many dogs in this country! Over 8000 strays a year are killed in pounds :-(
I was going to say that too but thought I'd get shot down off my soap box again. High time we had a better system for regulating dog breeding.
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Sometimes we need to import fresh blood into the country to keep breeds good and try to correct hereditary problems with small breed pools so I'm all for importing good quality stock.
The stray kennels contain mainly unwanted dogs brought about by clueless people trying to make a quick buck. I worked in one for 4 years and had a house full because of it ::)
Now I just nurse the dogs which belong to such people and try to explain why it's not a good idea to breed from such animals :rant:
Going back to the rabies subject, I became very worried about the Borders being opened to dogs coming and going. There have been a few instances where rabies has been brought in but contained :relief:
Just waiting for the inevitable now :-\
Edited as Id just like to say I always listen, Doganjo. Don't always totally agree but love to listen. Dogs are a subject I can talk and listen to non-stop ;) :excited:
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Now I just nurse the dogs which belong to such people and try to explain why it's not a good idea to breed from such animals :rant:
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: well done for trying.
I quite agree with importing good quality stock for improving breeding lines, but there should be a few "hoops" to go through first. The trouble is most of the imported puppies will not be of this ilk - and have been raised in puppy factories. Its bad enought that we can't seem to get closed down those d*mn places in this country without letting pups in from abroad. >:(
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And then there are people who try to do the right thing.......
The former owner of my new-to-me pup (a Golden Retriever) visited the breeder, saw the pups with their mum. All good so far. Didn't know enough to know about hip scores etc (their first ever pet) but they'd researched the right sort of dog for a family, gone to a breeder and were given a pedigree.
And the pedigree is indeed full of kennel club registered dogs.......they just happen to be Shih Tzus!
(I've contacted the Shih Tzu society and told them I thought they ought to know!)
I've just got my fingers crossed that she's ok, though my last rescue GR wasn't and we still had a happy life together. Would be nice to have a hill dog this time though. We'll see how she goes.
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The only safe way is to ask the Kennel Club for names of reputable breeders. ANYONE can call themselves a breeder!
Just breed your bitch to next doors dog and you can be called a breeder.
An Assured breeder is a different thing. I don't breed just now but when and if I decide to do so I will renew my membership of the Assured breeder Scheme.
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Well of course. But you have to be reasonably in the know, to know that that's what you should be looking for.
Maybe the RSPCA, instead of hassling smallholders and carrying out neighbour's grudges for them, could do an education campaign?
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ONLY ever buy from a reputable breeder who has done the ALL the recommended health checks for the relevant breed - AND even cross breeds.(health checks for both parents, even if different breeds)/quote]
How's that work for someone like me, who isn't interested in purebred or crossbred, but rather prefers out-and-out mongrels? And also likes to breed on with my mongrels... And not with purebreds either. ;)
On the topic of regulating dog breeding, I saw an interesting article recently, don't know if it's 100% true but they reckoned in Sweden it's illegal to desex your dog for non-medical reasons and so 95% are undesexed, but they don't have the issues many other countries do with overpopulation etc because there are such strict breeder laws and the breeder's financially responsible for their pups for the first 3 years of life. Now that sort of law could make a lot of breeders think twice.
Around here a lot of folks farm small fluffies in their backyards as money makers. (I say small fluffies because a lot of them are custom mongrels, like shar pei X shih tzu X maltese X jack russel X chihuahua etc... The list goes on...) They sell for up to $800 a pup. Just not right to see dogs kept like rabbits. Bizarre; and many are not trained or anything, and I know they don't all go to 'forever homes' as the RSPCA calls them because there would be far less demand if people were keeping them for normal dog lifespans...
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How's that work for someone like me, who isn't interested in purebred or crossbred, but rather prefers out-and-out mongrels? And also likes to breed on with my mongrels... And not with purebreds either. ;) Works for EVERYONE! Are you a reputable breeder? If you ensure that you are breeding with really healthy stock, and homing pups to forever homes and they will never end up in kill centres then yes you are, if not no.
On the topic of regulating dog breeding, I saw an interesting article recently, don't know if it's 100% true but they reckoned in Sweden it's illegal to desex your dog for non-medical reasons and so 95% are undesexed, but they don't have the issues many other countries do with overpopulation etc because there are such strict breeder laws and the breeder's financially responsible for their pups for the first 3 years of life. Now that sort of law could make a lot of breeders think twice. I totally agree, I have been advocating that for years!
Around here a lot of folks farm small fluffies in their backyards as money makers. (I say small fluffies because a lot of them are custom mongrels, like shar pei X shih tzu X maltese X jack russel X chihuahua etc... The list goes on...) They sell for up to $800 a pup. Just not right to see dogs kept like rabbits. Bizarre; and many are not trained or anything, and I know they don't all go to 'forever homes' as the RSPCA calls them because there would be far less demand if people were keeping them for normal dog lifespans... a forever home is just that - for the natural lifespan of the dog - not for a couple of months till the baby comes along, or till the pup grows too big and eats too much, or gets too bouncy, or growls because it isn't trained properly. We agree a on a lot of things
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I've looked at the web sites of a few assured breeders and to be honest wasn't convinced. Yes, I can see that they are being inspected and must adhere to certain rules set out by KC and follow regulations regarding health testing and max. number of litters for bitches. Good in those ways. Some of these breeders are have lots of bitches and are breeding a good number of litters each year ..... too many in my opinion. A lot looked quite good until you asked a few questions and found that they had one or two "pets" but their breeding bitches were all kennelled, all the time. Would be a full time "job" to socialize all the pups in the way they said they were. :-\
Sure I read somewhere on the scheme details that some assured breeders may have as many as 50 dogs in kennels.
One breeder told me that although breeders had hips tested, a lot of buyers were unaware of how the results were given and thought it good that the dogs had high scores ... they were laughing about it :o .
Nothing is perfect but not sure I like what I've seen so far. Maybe I just dropped on a brilliant breeder when I got my Flattie. She wasn't "assured" but really genuine, with a real love for the breed.
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Websites are the way some breeders put themselves forward in order to make sales. They pay to get their websites further up the Google scales. I never have done that. I registered on Champ dogs and some other sites some years ago but haven't updated them in years. The bigger breeders employ staff too so the pups are socialised, just not with the actual breeder. Also some breeders have bitches with other families out on what is called 'Breeders terms' , whereby the pups are registered by the breeder but are reared by the bitch's keeper. Those pups are most likely well socialised too.
I have a website but it talks about my dogs and what they do with me rather than how many champions I've bred etc. I give the address to friends and family and anyone who might be interested in my dogs, but don't really publicise it - but I'm not breeding now - both my girls are spayed.
Any one who laughs at someone else's lack of knowledge should be given a very wide berth in any sphere of life.
This is turning into a breeder/non breeder argument again so if there is any more I'll lock it - the point is that unregistered and possibly disease ridden pups should not be allowed into the UK.
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Well I don't think anyone disagrees with that Doganjo.
Didn't see my comments as an "argument" but as concerns about a scheme that I am just finding out about. It is after all important that any scheme is questioned and not taken at face value.
I suppose the thread has wandered a little though (as they tend to as a discussion begins) so I will leave it at that. ;D
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I agree with what Dogjano says about smuggled puppies, possibly bringing rabies into the British isles. After being rabies free for such a long time it's not a nice thought.
However, KC registered, reputable breeders are often not what they seem.
i would rather buy a puppy from someone who has the bitch in the house - famliy pet then i can see the temperment, and i can also see the way the pups have been introduced to the world.
you can't get that experience from a breeders kennels
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Sorry, but you are all confused - a breeder is just that - anyone can be a breeder, I was/am,(I have bred 7 litters in 35 years) Sandy is, many of my friends on here and across the dog world are (not just showing - working, agility, obedience, tracking and more) are. They may only have had one litter, they may breed every year, they may breeding a number of times a year. They may breed pure breds, they may breed cross breeds, they may breed mongrels - but they are all breeders.
I know of at least one 'breeder' breeding cockapoos like it is going out of style. And what do people like to buy - cute little fluffy cockapoos!
and Yes, you Can get that experience from breeders kennels! That is a generalization that does not hold water,.
end of Rant -
We are miles off topic - I am locking this thread.