The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Poultry & Waterfowl => Topic started by: warwick on July 31, 2013, 05:35:15 pm
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Hi a week ago we introduced 3 new chicks to our flock we now only have one left one died on tuesday another today. Looking on line i believe they have Mycoplasma Gallisepticum , one of our older chickens had this around 18 months ago but we treated with antibiotics and she survived could they have caught it off her or already had it when we brought them. Thanks
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Never heard of it, but if she recovered after treatment it's possible she remained a carrier. No idea what teh incubation period is either. How long did you isolate them for before introducing the new birds to your flock? Hope the last one is OK. :fc:
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Hi Warwick, You have my sympathies!
We lost our entire flock to M.G. last year for sort of the opposite reason - we bought in some new stock from a dealer, but they brought M.G. with them. We quarantined them for a week with all being well, but after another week, our existing flock started to develop symptoms.
We treated with Tylan soluble, and most of them recovered. However, in the end we had to cull or rehome the whole flock to avoid it spreading to our other poultry.
It's a nasty disease in that once infected, the birds can remain carriers for life. It can then be transferred to other birds (even though the carrier shows no symptoms), or can erupt again in the carrier at times of stress, e.g. moulting.
Not much else I can add really other than my heartfelt sympathy! :'(
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Just to add to my list of things to watch for, what are the symptoms? I've lost a lot to Avian Leukosis and it was awful - both to see them suffering and to have my breeding plans blown apart (lost my two intended breeding cockerels and three beautiful gold laced hens). Hugs,
H
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Hi Hester, It's pretty unpleasant, and looks like this:
(http://www.fancyfowl.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Mycoplasma-in-Poultry-Chronic-Mycoplasma.png)
The birds start to get bubbles / weeping around their eyes, followed by really inflamed sinuses (bulging cheeks). They become very lethargic and withdrawn and their breathing sounds as though they're 'sawing'. They can sometimes lose the ability to open one eye completely (http://www.hoopingtonpallaby.co.uk/poorly-hen/), and there's also a distinctive sweet-ish smell in the air.
I hope that helps Hester. I also hope you never have to go there! :(
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did you buy in the chicks or breed them yourselves?
what is the recommended quarantine for birds?
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I bought in POL pullets from an established breeder which turned out to be infected. That was the heartbreaking bit really, watching our existing flock dropping like flies, whilst the new arrivals strutted around looking completely healthy. In the end we decided to get rid of all of them to stop it from infecting our peafowl (thankfully we separated the chooks quickly enough that it didn't spread to the peafowl. If it had done, I don't think we'd ever have been rid of it).
So, although I did quarantine the new arrivals for a week, a longer period wouldn't have helped since they were carrying M.G. but showing no symptoms. The upshot is that no new birds come onto our holding now except as hatching eggs!
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I bought in POL pullets from an established breeder which turned out to be infected. That was the heartbreaking bit really, watching our existing flock dropping like flies, whilst the new arrivals strutted around looking completely healthy. In the end we decided to get rid of all of them to stop it from infecting our peafowl (thankfully we separated the chooks quickly enough that it didn't spread to the peafowl. If it had done, I don't think we'd ever have been rid of it).
So, although I did quarantine the new arrivals for a week, a longer period wouldn't have helped since they were carrying M.G. but showing no symptoms. The upshot is that no new birds come onto our holding now except as hatching eggs!
did you get any compensation or apology from the breeder? sounds terrible
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:roflanim:
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I only buy in fresh cockerels when necessary but they're quarantined away from all the other stock for as long as possible and a minimum of three weeks. Carriers are always a potential problem, even with this system so I introduce a only a couple of hens to the cockerel to start with and, again, keep them well away from the other poultry.
I also split the growers of the breeds I want to keep for the following year into at least two groups to overwinter, more if I can manage it, and house them well away from each other. No system can be relied on 100% though. Avian Leukosis arrived on the farm a couple of winters ago and I lost some of my best birds. The vet said it could have arrived on a feather blown off a passing tractor - not much you can do about that one!
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MG, or Myco as it's commonly referred as, is the last thing you want to get! It's a carrier for life as other members have said...we brought in 5 new birds in the Spring and we noticed one looked a bit snuffly but didn't take much notice of it. After they'd been in their new home for a few days (separate from our main flock) they all started to look snuffly and had swollen eyes etc, all the symptoms that Womble has mentioned but we didn't know it was MG at that point.
Then our main laying flock started to go down with it! Devastating, cos they don't lay while they're suffering with the worst of it!! One by one they all caught it - fortunately we researched on the net and decided that it was definitely MG then managed to get the Tylan powder into their drink (from the vet).
The best bit is that none of ours died!! We did isolate some of the worst birds to reduce stress for a few days.
The worst bit is that we've had to get rid of our entire flock, including the new ones we'd brought in (which we'd planned to breed from) :( They'll be carriers for life even if they appear healthy afterwards, and apparently the symptoms can come back, brought on by stress from moving/changes in environment/weather etc. Also, you can't hatch from their eggs as it will even pass thru the shell and infect the chicks!!
The really annoying thing is that it's v difficult to tell if you're buying birds that are infected (although it was quite obvious with ours, just that we didn't know what to look for!!).
As Marches Farmer says, MG can pass through dust, poo, bottom of wellies etc! So if you're passing between an infected flock and a clear flock you need to leave at least 2 hours between visits so that the infection doesn't spread.
When you get rid of all infected birds, leave at least 2 weeks before introducing new ones to the house/run and thoroughly disinfect everything.
As you can see I did quite a bit of research on this!!
The long and short of it is - don't get MG if you can possibly help it!!!! It's a nightmare!
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I was sorry to read this but also interested because I had thought one of our hens had something similar which we spotted only yesterday.
After looking at the picture posted earlier I'm not not so sure now. I wrote a post about our problem on my blog (http://smallplotbigideas.co.uk/2013/08/01/a-sickly-chicken/) which includes a picture of our hen so you can see what it looks like. My opinion is now swinging more towards some kind of physical injury given the blood around the comb in my picture.
There are no signs in ours of the bubbles mentioned here or any noticable smell so I'm keeping my fingers crossed!
Good luck with yours too :fc:
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Hi thanks for feed back still not sure if the brought in chicks have it or one of ours is a carrier . The last chick seems fine.
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Last week I noticed one of my cockerels was sitting quietly in a corner, on further inspection, he had the start of a swollen eye, I immediately quarantined along with his 3 siblings, ( they are always together and i thought if one has infection, probably all will) I gave tylan for 4 days and all appear ok now. All 4 did display very mild symptoms of mg. they all got one swollen eye which closed up and an occasional sneeze, but by no means as bad as bubbling snot oozing from beak and eyes.
My dilemma is, if they had mg , I don't want to reintroduce to my flock as there doesn't at the moment appear to be any other casualties, and they will be carriers, so do I cull?
I can't responsibly rehome as they will infect other birds
And I can't breed from them as I believe it can carry on in the genes
What's your thoughts please
Mojo
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they don't carry it in their genes, its an infectious disease caused by a sort of cell-wall less bacterium. I think they are always carriers though in which case I would cull after checking (ie even just chatting to) a good vet.
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This is bad iv never had this but culling must be the op shun and start again with new stock
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I've got it in my flock. Devastated so I'm going to have to cull the lot - about 80 birds in total. I got 10 birds from a breeder who was selling up as he had to move. The wanker knew he had it, I also knew he had it but didn't realise it was so so so so infectious - having never had anything like it I was pretty oblivious (ignorant at worst). This bloke has sold over three hundred birds to the unsuspecting public in the South-West.
PM for details
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Do you think I have to cull my whole flock??? Or just the 4 that I have quarantined . None of my others are showing any symptoms.....Yet
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from what I've read once they've had it they become carriers - frickin horrendous and I'm so mad with myself. Getting some of the sick ones blood tested - talk to your vet about it for the best course of action.
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Ok will speak to vet tomorrow, cheers. Have all your hens shown symptoms?
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no, not all, but a soon as they had a sign I dosed them all with Tylan which seems to have worked on the majority of the flock. It is mainly young stock that have the symptoms now so i'm just about to go out and dose them individually. I'm getting them blood tested to definitely confirm it - pastuerella has been mentioned by another breeder I know who has taken some of the birds, but I'm pretty confident as they have that "sweet" smell from the discharge. Totally gutted as we have hatched some absolutely wonderful young stock and have some eggs ready to hatch in about 8 days that may have the disease :( :( :(
:'(
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"This bloke has sold over three hundred birds to the unsuspecting public in the South-West."
who was this bloke in the south west?
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Just a wee update on my flock. I had 3 cockerel and 1 hen that presented with this condition . Had one blood tested by vet and it was positive. These 4 were seperated very quickly from flock. Then took 5 other random hens, different breeds , all blood tested and the results came back negative , so that's a huuuuuggge relief. :relief:
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"This bloke has sold over three hundred birds to the unsuspecting public in the South-West."
who was this bloke in the south west?
A Polish chap by the name of Arthur, can't think of his last name at the moment. Not just the SW apparently - all the way as far as Manchester...
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"TheCaptain":
do you mean SW England? e.g. Devon, Cornwall, Somerset etc
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yes, I do indeed. We're North dorset, he was living near the tip at Castle Cary
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Glad your flock sound clear Mojocafa :relief:
It sounds such an awfulmdisease tomend up with. Both for the flock and for the pocket.
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Absolutely gutted, have noticed today some more have . I think I am going to have to cull, I'm devasted, all my birds are rare breeds.
How did you get on the captain?
How common is this infection?
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I have it in some of my birds, I brought it in from Lanark auctions, if I were to cull them it would only leave me with 12 which are in a separate pen and are clear, does anyone know if it remains in the houses or the run? I dosed them all with Baytril, which meant binning all the eggs for 28 days, it has been suggested that I give them Tylan as that has no withdrawal. At the moment I am getting about 18 eggs a day from 30 birds, not a very good return on all the feed they are eating
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How far a part are your runs
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How far a part are your runs
They are adjoining but as the grass at the fences is pretty long they don't get too close, the mg free ones are also young hybrids which will be vaccinated.I wonder if the answer would be just to keep vaccinated hybrids?
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I started culling two nights ago, cried my eyes out throughout - feel so guilty because I've caused it in the first place. They started to look like they'd all cleared up so we were toying with the idea of keeping them on and vaccinating anything we hatch but then the ones that had it really bad (but were recovering) all started gasping and four of them died overnight which made my mind up. I'd rather know that they had a very quick and pain free death than slowly suffocate because of pneumonia. All of the females were just about to start coming into lay too - some truly beautiful birds, and all individuals with different personalities which makes it so much harder.
Another 50 to go.
:'(
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I have decided to cull some of my birds, it's happening tomorrow, I have arranged for someone to come tomorrow and do the deed. The birds that I am going to keep, I am hopeful dont have mg...yet. At the weekend I am going rebuild pens, on a clean area of ground. Does anyone have any suggestions of what I can do with the area they are currently in , once i have moved them ,to help disinfect it. It is mainly grass.
I know it's only chickens but I have invested so much into them to build up my flock.
I too have cried, captain, nothing to be ashamed of, and for what it's worth, I think your doing the responsible thing,
Mojo
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I really feel for you both-I would be devastated. fwiw you are doing the right thing by your birds but it is not your fault, someone knowingly sold them on.
mojocafa-if you've not already, I would take advice from a poultry vet on this or a commercial poultry operation as it's more of a problem in commercial set ups and so they would have the experience to tell you how to go about safeguarding future birds. Earth/grass is more difficult as I'm sure you're aware but I'd think about liming the hell out of it and resting it as long as possible but also take any professional advice.
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I'll have to check but I believe that MG only lives as an organism without host for two weeks (or maybe shorter, I'll have to check on DEFRA website). Once they've been off for that period it should be fine to use again - so it's not as bad pasturella or Cocci!!! (Small mercies and all that...)
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I have spoken with both vet and poultry organisation, but they both advised give tylan and again more if
They become reinfected, and that may be ok if you just want eggs.
But here is a dilemma I had...
Some poultry enthusiast from Birmingham was interested in my russian orloffs,( so rare they are now officially endangered) he wanted to organise poultry carrier to uplift from me in east Scotland and transport down. How could I possibly put birds on , that may be carriers of this, they could possibly infect every bird being transported. However as of yet the Russians have not displayed any symptoms and I think I will randomly get some of them tested. I was £71 to get 5 other birds tested last week. It's an expensive business!!! I also had a women from north Scotland interested in the Russians but I had to phone her to tell her they were no longer available.
What does lime do and where do I get it?
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You see how at the foot of my posts it ends a partridge in a pear tree, it was probably that bloody partridge that infected us
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calcium hydroxide-I do not know how or if it's effective against mycoplasma, its good against crawling insects, a good fungicide and getting rid of dead bodies a la the mob. Some use it to freshen up permanent pens. But-you have to rest the ground as it will burn chicken feet if just on the surface and it gets wet. There is 'garden' lime which is calcium carbonate which helps reduce soil acidity-so actually also good where there is fresh chicken poop but not as good as killing nasties.
If MG doesn't exist off the host as The Captain says, well just rest the ground as long as possible.
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does anyone know if it remains in the houses or the run?
If it is M.G, then thankfully it doesn't remain "off-host" for very long at all. You'd have to look up the actual figures, but I'm pretty sure it's a few days rather than a few weeks.
You all absolutely have my sympathy - been there, done that, hope never to have to go there again (and yes, I cried too) :'( .
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Job done,
The guy that did it for me was fantastic, he was so strong and quick. I had the selected birds in a pen and he dispatched 18 birds in about 10 mins. He certainly made it easy for me, wasn't nearly as bad as I anticipated