The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: jaykay on July 25, 2013, 07:37:32 pm
-
One of my Shetlands that I like the best, has lost condition very fast.
A couple of days ago I was thinking 'you're looking a bit thin Dot' to today, being able to pick her up and carry her :o
She had twins and has raised them well. She'll be a three shear herself. The rest of the flock are in (very ::)) good condition. Their worming and fluking is up to date.
The whole flock has had pink-eye, and have had antibiotics for that. And Dot had a nasty abscess on the side of her face, I suspect from a cleg bite, which wouldn't clear up, so she's had antibiotics for that too. It's now healed to a small hard lump.
Nothing wrong with her teeth and she's not scouring. In fact she's still eating, it just doesn't seem to be doing her any good :-\
I've put her in the small paddock for now, which has good grass and clover. I've given her a pile of molassed flakey. And I've just drenched her with pro-rumen and co+se because all I can think of is that I have knocked out her rumen bugs with the antibiotics and that my usual 'live yoghurt following antibiotics' hasn't done enough of a job.
Is there anything else I can do for her, anything else it could be? I can see me losing her if things don't turn round tomorrow and that would make me very sad.
-
Oh Jaykay, I wish I could offer some magic remedy. Just don't know what else you can try, you seem to have covered pretty much everything and hoping is all there is left. I really pray she'll turn around as quickly as she's lost the weight. Have her lambs been weaned, is she perhaps pining for them?
-
has she been wormed for fluke or been amongst ragwort?
-
Hi Pedwardine, thank you. :-* The lambs and ewes are all in together still. She has reared two good lambs and I could see her being a bit low in condition as a result (though no-one else is) but not like this.
Hi ShyGirl, yes worming and fluking up to date, no ragwort in fields.
-
Sorry to hear your Dot isn't too good. Not any help with sheep but would a multivit and vit B jab give a bit of boost?
(Just ignore me if this is a stupid answer, just a thought )
Hope things improve :hug:
-
Hi Shaz, I think I'm going to ask the vet about that tomorrow.
She was still standing and grazing just now - fingers crossed :fc:
-
Hopefully it is something treatable and the vet will have ideas. However, just like humans, sheep can get cancer which will obviously have no cure. What about Johnne's disease, which is a form of ulcerative colitis? Those are unlikely, and I know you are sensible and will be trying all the obvious things. Or could it just be that the lambs have 'sucked her thin'? Does she need Calciject before she collapses as a pre-emptive dose ?
-
Thanks FW, I hadn't thought of Calciject - it's in my head around lambing alwqys, but that's a good idea.
Don't think it's Johne's as she isn't scouring. Yes it could be cancer I suppose :-\ that's what you'd think if she were a human.
I don't think it's her lambs, as it seems quite rapid and the others, including those the same age who've also had twins, are in rather too good condition.
Thank you and I'll see if the vets have got any more ideas tomorrow.
-
If she has got good appetite, is up (and generally happy) and grazing normally I would bet tempted to take the lambs off her and just let her get on.
Vit B12 would obviously not do any harm and may stimulate her appetite a bit more, a mineral drench should also help. Other than that I can't think of anything that I would do. Maybe if she continues to eat, but doesn't put on weight give her a year off lambs?
I did that with one of my (then very thin) Shetland ewes last year and only now does she look in better condition... after a winter feeding and now loads of grass.
Did you buy her in or is she homebred? Johne's may also be a possibility IMO - do sheep with Johne's scour all the time or just every soften?
Let's hope she is just worn out a bit and will right herself in time...
-
Thanks Anke, I bought her from reputable folk two years ago, but at an auction mart. How long does Johne's take to appear? I don't know much about it really.
I brought her into the paddock on her own just now, she isn't yelling for her lambs so probably glad of the peace. The rest of the flock is just the other side of the gate, so she's not too isolated,
I gave my skinnier goat a year off kids this year and that's certainly done her good. Will see how Dot does, just need to keep her going at the moment :-\
-
If she's bought in, not knowing her worming history, could she be resistant to your wormer?
do AB's and wormers have a counter -effect? (can't think of the word, hope you know what I mean).
Taking the lambs off sounds a good idea, hope she doesn't decide she misses them
Good luck with her
-
There's also a lot of resistance issues with flukicides (and poo samples even if tested for fluke which isn't standard in worm counts, have to pay extra, aren't infallible) so it could still be fluke. I would be getting the tests done and if positive using one of the pricier but no resistance types for worms if its that (eg orange for nemotodes) or a different flukicide. Calciject also a good idea and removing the lambs.
-
An abcess on the face is often a jaw or molar problem causing problems in eating. Much more serious is Caseous Lymphadenitis which can have internal abcesses as well as external :raining:
-
Poor Dot - hope she gets better :fc: You're doing a fab job - so don't beat yourself up if the worst happens :hug:
-
Hows Dot today? Any info from the vet? :fc:
-
Still here, but barely :-\
The vet thinks tumour too, given the speed, the lack of any other symptoms ie scouring, and so on. He says it won't be her rumen from me giving antibiotics, they are more tolerant of them than that.
Says do your best for her and see if she can pull through, probably nothing they can do.
So - the feedstore had a high energy lick left over from lambing, so I've got her that, cut some off and into small pieces, and done the calicject. And I've got some flaked maize as well as the molassed flakey. She's in a small paddock on her own, within sight of the others. Think that's probably all I can do.
And I don't think it's going to be enough :-\
-
Painkillers? If you've not already that might be worth a shot too, if only to ease any pain she might be in.
-
Oh, Jaykay. That's not good news :hug: She has the best possible chance to pull through living with you :fc: everything crossed for her.
-
Thank you. She's trying so hard, but......
Why does it always happen to the good ones. It's not like you want any sheep to die, but if one had to, couldn't it be one of the 'also-rans' or one of the wethers, not one of my best breeding ewes :-\
-
:fc: Good luck with her Jaykay. She is in good hands.
-
Thanks ITH. I feel so helpless.
I'm hoping something I've done helps and she picks up and is her normal cheeky self again, whilst knowing that's pretty unlikely given how weak she is :-\
-
I feel so for you. It's so hard when it's a special one. Don't know what else to say except you know we're all here for you whatever happens :hug:
-
Thank you :-* She was up and grazing just now, when I went out to shut up the ducks. :fc: :fc: :fc:
-
She died :-[
Looked a bit brighter this morning, and got up to come and join the others when I went out to check them just now - and then fell down and died. Poor love.
And of course, it's Saturday night so I can't take her to the hunt kennels til Monday morning :P
-
So sorry Jaykay :hug:
-
:bouquet: Sorry Jaykay.
-
Sorry :( :hug:
-
So sorry - you did everything you could for her
:hug: :bouquet:
-
Sorry to hear that jaykay :bouquet: , you did everything possible by the sounds of it. I had a ewe that just didn't put back condition after winter and lambing (she had twins), the other ewes did, but not her. She was eating fine, every time I checked she came over for a scratch, but ust looked thin. She'd been wormed, fluked etc then one extremely hot weekend I had been away for one day and the next I found her dead in the field. I was upset because she'd been one of my original mules, an excellent lamber and mum. These things just seem to happen with sheep :(
-
Thanks all :-*
I'll go with FW's and the vet's suggestion of a tumour, there didn't seem to be anything else and her decline was so fast. One minute she was a bit fat, like all the others, the next thin, and then dead :-\
Her lambs seem to be ok, at least they're not tiddlers still.
If I was really scientific, I'd do an autopsy on her but I think I won't.
The sky's turned black, the wind has picked up and there's thunder in the distance - feel appropriate somehow.
-
:bouquet: :bouquet:
-
Oh Jaykay, so sorry she didn't pull through despite all your efforts. :bouquet: :hug: Is one (or both) of her lambs a girl so that you could carry on her lines given that she was so capable (and loveable)?
-
So sorry Jaykay :(
-
Thank you all. Yes, she had one black gimmer lamb, so maybe I'll keep her :)
-
Could still be fluke, I have lost one this year despite being dosed twice for fluke. Is she anaemic?
-
So sorry to hear about Dot :'(
-
Thank you :-*
The thing is, I've got 50 fat sheep in very good condition and then this one, losing weight like mad. Doesn't make sense that it would be something that would affect them all, like fluke.
I haven't written this before, cos it was too awful. When she fell down, fresh blood came out of her nose and mouth. Like you see on cowboy movies when someone's been shot. It was truly horrible. Fortunately she died within a few seconds of that or I was about to fetch my neighbour to shoot her.
So the blood must have come from her lungs, although up til then there had been no 'breathing' symptoms.
Anyone else ever seen that and know what caused it?
Actually, thinking again, if she did have cancer, maybe keeping her lamb isn't the smartest thing to do?
-
Have had the unfortunate experience of watching a dog die in similar circumstances :( . The dog was diagnosed with immune mediated thrombocytopaenia. For your ewe it may well have been one of those freak things that affects an individual for reasons unknown and yes if it was something like that keeping the lamb may not be the best idea.
-
Sorry to hear about Dot :bouquet: . The same thing happened here yesterday. One brilliant 4 yr old ewe, gentle and friendly, easy lamber and a great mum (even fostered another lamb this Spring with no problem). She always came for extra fuss, and I thought she looked thin at the middle of the week :-\ . Brought her home with a few others for company and to give her extra TLC. She was in the field Friday afternoon, lying in the shade and eating hazel trimmings (always a favourite). I went out yesterday and she was dead by the barn :'( . RIP Hawthorn.
As you say, even the fallen stock company are not open until tomorrow morning. And I can't bear to pm her. All jabs, wormer and fluke up to date.
-
Oh no, I'm sorry about your ewe too :hug:
-
Hi Jaykay,
Thank you :hug: . It is so awful when you try your best and it still goes wrong.
"The thing is, I've got 50 fat sheep in very good condition and then this one, losing weight like mad. Doesn't make sense that it would be something that would affect them all, like fluke. "
Just the same here. I'm trying to stop most of them getting too fat - and then Hawthorn's weight drops like a stone ??? .
-
What my vet said was 'if a sheep is losing weight, with the grass as good as it is, and the weather as good as it is, and given that your flock management is right, it's got to be either something like Johne's or a tumour'.
I'm hoping not Johne's (http://www.johnes.org/sheep/faqs.html#1)! I might contact the folk I bought her from and ask if they've had any others.