The Accidental Smallholder Forum

Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Bionic on July 11, 2013, 04:47:07 pm

Title: What should ram lambs eat?
Post by: Bionic on July 11, 2013, 04:47:07 pm
My ewes are on ewe nuts and all the lambs are on creep but its getting to the stage where they are eating each others food. The lambs are big and the opening for their creep area needs to be bigger too which means the shorn ewes can now get in there also.
I don't mind them eating each others food but I have 2 ram lambs and know they shouldn't be eating the ewe nuts.
Is there a food that they can all eat?
Title: Re: What should ram lambs eat?
Post by: zarzar on July 11, 2013, 05:15:44 pm
hi we feed all ours badminton country mix as they can all eat it with not effects to the boys
Title: Re: What should ram lambs eat?
Post by: SallyintNorth on July 11, 2013, 05:40:19 pm
Many if not most feed merchants make a 16% 'stock blend' which is safe for all stock - check with your local suppliers ;)
Title: Re: What should ram lambs eat?
Post by: Pedwardine on July 11, 2013, 06:28:58 pm
As Sally says and it's also called 'Coarse Mix'. Alternatively some may stock Hogget 14% which is also suitable for all.
Title: Re: What should ram lambs eat?
Post by: smudger on July 11, 2013, 06:54:39 pm
I wouldn't give a ewe mix, something in it which can give them bladder stones or something (urea?). MV here said to use lamb finisher as being all that they stock for feeding rams. Harpers do a mix (Harvest super lamb mix) which can be used by all sheep.  Just wondering why you are feeding, I'm let mine get on with eating the grass. Meat should taste better too.
Title: Re: What should ram lambs eat?
Post by: Bionic on July 11, 2013, 07:27:32 pm
Just wondering why you are feeding, I'm let mine get on with eating the grass. Meat should taste better too.
I have been feeding them but lately reduced it right down to small rations. I am now at the end of the creep feed and want to continue with something to keep them friendly and coming to the bucket so that I can get them in easier when work needs to be done.
Hopefully none of mine will be going for meat.
Title: Re: What should ram lambs eat?
Post by: shygirl on July 11, 2013, 07:35:16 pm
if you have grass, i wouldnt bother feeding them. once you have trained them to the bucket , they dont forget. ours were all bucket trained for catching and handling, but only got fed when i needed them (after the initial training). but mine were natives so only needed grass/haylage.
Title: Re: What should ram lambs eat?
Post by: Pedwardine on July 11, 2013, 07:59:42 pm
Like Bionic we always have some feed on hand for gathering in and such (oh and perhaps spoiling from time to time  :eyelashes: )
Title: Re: What should ram lambs eat?
Post by: Backinwellies on July 11, 2013, 08:16:41 pm
I rang P & C about this last week ..... was told special additives for ram lambs are being withdrawn .... just ensure salt lick and lots water available .......... i use their 'ruminant course mix'
Title: Re: What should ram lambs eat?
Post by: VSS on July 11, 2013, 09:06:01 pm
Grass.....

but if feel you must feed them you could look at ram mixes, but they tend to be very expensive. Another option would be lamb fattening rations. These are usually OK for tup lambs, but check the label to make sure. Sugar beet is another possibility.
Title: Re: What should ram lambs eat?
Post by: SteveHants on July 11, 2013, 09:46:03 pm
Grass.....



This.
Title: Re: What should ram lambs eat?
Post by: Fleecewife on July 11, 2013, 10:06:39 pm
I agree Sally that they really don't need any feed at all beyond grass.  If you will be keeping your males then you don't need them to 'fatten' - in fact you don't want them to fatten.  Same with the ewes - you want them to be in good condition by tupping time but not overfat which they will become with added feed on top of rich summer grass.
For bringing them in, we use Carr's Champion tup, but only enough to make a bucket rattle ie a tiny hand-not-full, and definitely not every day. It's what we feed the whole flock in winter as the ewes don't need a higher protein content than this coarse mix supplies, being primitives, and they don't need much even then.  The tups and non-breeding ewes only get concentrates when there's snow lying - they get ad lib hay and branches, and whatever grass there is left.
  Negative reinforcement works by not always giving the reward and is as successful as positive reinforcement, so don't worry that they will forget the bucket rattle - sheep don't forget  ;D
 
I can't remember what breed your sheep are, but I'm surprised they still come for the dry feed - ours just aren't interested.
Title: Re: What should ram lambs eat?
Post by: shygirl on July 11, 2013, 10:12:35 pm
if you are needing the "bucket rattle" go for nuts rather than coarse mix, as they hear it from a longer distance.
Title: Re: What should ram lambs eat?
Post by: Fleecewife on July 11, 2013, 10:18:27 pm
if you are needing the "bucket rattle" go for nuts rather than coarse mix, as they hear it from a longer distance.

But then the tups can't eat it. Ours respond to an empty bucket as long as it's the small blue one.  The lookout sheep will spot it and let the others know, then stand back for the charge (unless we're trying to round them up when they ignore it)
Title: Re: What should ram lambs eat?
Post by: funkyfish on July 11, 2013, 11:27:04 pm
An intermittent reinforcement schedule will maintain a behaviour better than a constant one. So occasionally feeding them will make them better at coming to the bucket. Its why gambling is addictive.  The worst thing that happens is you don't get what you want.  This is very different to negative reinforcement which is the taking away of something you want.
Title: Re: What should ram lambs eat?
Post by: Fleecewife on July 12, 2013, 12:31:03 am
Thanks funkyfish - forgive my elderly brain  :dunce:
Title: Re: What should ram lambs eat?
Post by: Bionic on July 12, 2013, 07:48:30 am
thankyou all for your suggestions.
Fleecewife you are right in that they spot the blue bucket and will come running before they know if anything is in it.  Perhaps I will put some stones in for the rattle  :roflanim:
 
By the way I have Ryelands
Title: Re: What should ram lambs eat?
Post by: Ladygrey on July 12, 2013, 08:39:51 am
Mine all come for the bucket still and the last time they got any feed was in March!
As soon as they had lambed then they have had nothing since, lambs haven't had anything either, the grass is more than good enough for them at the moment.
Title: Re: What should ram lambs eat?
Post by: Marches Farmer on July 12, 2013, 10:30:24 am
I agree. I've extended this to training to call and they all gallop up the field without a bucket in sight.  Also agree on grass, unless they're Continentals or their crosses you're trying to finish for the lamb market.   Cheap to finish is the big advantage of native breeds.
Title: Re: What should ram lambs eat?
Post by: Foobar on July 12, 2013, 10:45:05 am
Mine can't always hear (or see) a bucket from a distance, especially if it's windy, so I too just call them now (a rather extended "Commme on!"), and they come running.  It's very handy.  My neighbours must think I'm a loon though ;).
They associate it with moving to fresh grass so are always very keen.


(And in answer to the original question, defo grass :).)
Title: Re: What should ram lambs eat?
Post by: EP90 on July 12, 2013, 11:45:36 am
Just out of ‘geeky’ interest, what is in Ewe feeds that upsets the boys.  What’s the benefit that it’s put in Ewe feed?
I have two ram lambs on grass, so it’s only to increase my very limited knowledge of sheep rearing.
Title: Re: What should ram lambs eat?
Post by: Foobar on July 12, 2013, 12:00:33 pm
I think it's the calcium:phosphorous ratio (which needs to be 2:1 or greater), and the added magnesium.
However, (being a geek :) ) I collate the analysis of all the feeds that I've used on a spreadsheet and I can't find one that has Ca:P ratio of less than 2:1.  So maybe it's more about the magnesium levels.


Ahh yes.. see here:
http://www.heygatesfeeds.co.uk/urinary-calculi/ (http://www.heygatesfeeds.co.uk/urinary-calculi/)
Title: Re: What should ram lambs eat?
Post by: shygirl on July 12, 2013, 12:37:43 pm
it usually says on the label not for rams etc.
Title: Re: What should ram lambs eat?
Post by: shep53 on July 12, 2013, 12:48:06 pm
Calcined magnesite ( magnesium oxide ) is normaly added to prevent staggers :sunshine:
Title: Re: What should ram lambs eat?
Post by: shygirl on July 12, 2013, 12:52:57 pm
what does it do to the rams again? i cant remember but does it give them kidney /prostrate stones or something?
Title: Re: What should ram lambs eat?
Post by: EP90 on July 13, 2013, 02:04:32 pm
I think it's the calcium:phosphorous ratio (which needs to be 2:1 or greater), and the added magnesium.
However, (being a geek :) ) I collate the analysis of all the feeds that I've used on a spreadsheet and I can't find one that has Ca:P ratio of less than 2:1.  So maybe it's more about the magnesium levels.


Ahh yes.. see here:
http://www.heygatesfeeds.co.uk/urinary-calculi/ (http://www.heygatesfeeds.co.uk/urinary-calculi/)
Interesting point about castrating increases the risk of stones.  Informative site aswell, thanks.
Title: Re: What should ram lambs eat?
Post by: 17AndCounting on July 13, 2013, 05:20:27 pm

We only give our sheep a little food from the bucket every now and then at the moment - enough to remind them it's worth running for the bucket really!
Title: Re: What should ram lambs eat?
Post by: Pomme homme on July 13, 2013, 09:56:33 pm
Broad bean pods, coarsely chopped. It's a win-win solution. We go crazy for the young broad beans. The ram lambs do the same for the fresh pods. Is this a symbiotic relationship?