The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Poultry & Waterfowl => Topic started by: harry on July 25, 2009, 09:22:09 pm
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ime having a rethink , i keep about 12 laying hens, 12 laying ducks, 20-30 growers, and ime feeding an additional 20 crows............ i dont live on site so daily feeding is out, possible to hand feed 4 times aweek once a day, i currently fill feed drums up, and its getting a bit more £s than i want...... some 10 growers escaped out of their run, they now roam over about 1 acre of grass etc.... and i thought i would leave them to it to see how they progressed, seem to be doing ok..... ime now thinking about letting everything out to completly free range with about 4 hand feeds per week, i know you only get out what you put in but does anyone else do this with success... ie occasional feeding and regular eggs..... and how do your meat birds do with this plan..... the one problem i know of is it will be difficult to find the eggs as ducks lay anywhere and given the chance so will the chickens.
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So long as it's safe from predators it would be fine, but foxes an stoats are very wily creatures, and occasionally you get two legged predators. Hens will lay where they are encouraged to lay - rubber or ceramic eggs in a nesting box for example. Ducks, you are absolutely correct, will lay anywhere! If they have an acre of grass they won't need nearly so much hard feeding - you could leave a small supply inside their sheds and go along to feed as well - but 4 times a week isn't really enough - don't you want to keep a closer eye on them than that? I would want to check on them every day.
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I thought it was against the law to not check all livestock every day - at least in England? Are you not worried something may happen? I have 70 free range hens, but they come indoors every night, and are fed twice a day. I do not think I overfeed my hens, probably underfeed them, but they are always hungry. And you can imagine my feed bill is big.
What if there is really dry weather and the hens cannot dig for worms, insects etc? Do they not need layers pellets to get minerals and vitamins etc? As you said, where would the hens lay, and could you find the eggs?
Is the land fenced to stop foxes etc?
I don't think I would be happy with this sytem for my hens, and think you may find egg production is not good unless they have access to hard feed every day. I am not saying what you are thinking of doing is wrong - just that its not for me.
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it is have a look at the defra booklet on layers. the livestock needed to be checked at least once and better twice a day.
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Without meaning to sound rude, but what is the point in having them if your not there enjoy there antics or eat their eggs?!
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Hi
Just interested. If all livestock (including chooks)need to be checked daily would this constitute a good reason to be able to stay on your land e.g. in a static caravan or something ?
Bluebell ???
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If it is law then I can't see how planning permission could be refused for any dwelling.
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A neighbour of mine tried that. You have to justify a need to stay on the land - and I think they may say you could travel to feed the hens. They turned my neighbour down for a barn conversion, and said she could travel daily from the village to feed her cows etc.
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were lucky up here if the croft has no house or its a ruin then we are nearly always granted permission. the crofters commission has a rule about living within 10 miles of the croft when granting the tenancy so if you live outside that distance then you should get permission. be careful you may end up with lots of agricultural ties being added to the house. have you thought about a static caravan and trying to live there without permission.
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Firstly ime not keeping my stock (hens, cocks, ducks, geese and wild turkeys) by this system yet but asking advice from anyone that does before deciding..... ive been keeping poultry sucessfully for over 20 years now, my stock is healthy with tons of room with short/long grass bushes, trees and sheds to roost in but they all prefer the trees and bushes to roost in, a stream to drink from and for ducks to do what they do in ie swim feed groom etc, an electric fence to protect them, all sounds like chicken heaven to me, so what i dont need is a large gov body like defra to tell me how to keep poultry, ime sure that defra has it uses but they cant tell me how to keep happy heathy birds. I also hope that any opinions dont come from anyone thats got a so called 5 bird chicken coup and they keep 5 birds in it or that have a square wire pen up the corner without a blade of grass in it or any bushes etc. ie a mud pen, thats what i dont like to see, i wont keep a budgie in a cage or a goldfish in a bowl, eveything i keep has to have the best i can get to natural habitat. Thats why with all the room my birds have and their perfect suroundings ime considering keeping them even more natural than they are now, ie loads of room for one to clear off and hide from the relitives if it wants to, or to pair up with whom they want to, with about 4/5 visits a week for me to hand feed them the supliments and extra protien they need to keep laying and growing, and collect the eggs. On the moors are ponies checked twice a day, in the highlands are deer checked twice a day, cattle in fields, pheasants, large amounts of pigs in fields are these all checked twice a day, i dont think so, if pigs /poultry are confined in sheds yes they need checking, but with my birds what am i checking for? Every time i go and have a look the ducks they are either in the stream, or sleeping in the sun and grass, nice life!.... my personel web site is www.backgardenhens.webs.com i use this to sell surplus stuff, even the ferrets have a rabbit hutch to sleep in and a 50 metre pipe to get to their open pen (natural as i can get it)............ i just think given plenty of room and natural surroundings, supliments and extra feed my birds would interact thrive, mine dont need drums full of feed, and daily attention. If keeping poultry is your main only hobby then yes check them lots but i work 3to 4 days a week for a 13.5 hour day so i feel its safe to let mine get on with it some days...... i think theirs another way rather than suppling endless pellets etc.
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Sorry to disagree, but I also work and get up early to feed everything before going to my job. All my animals are checked morning and night. They come first because i choose to have them and its my job to make sure they are safe and healthy. Our chickens roam the paddocks during the day but are shut in at night as we know there are foxes about. I know for a fact that the people round my area who breed pheasants do check them twice if not more as they are for the shooting season and worth a lot of money per gun. Pig farmers , the small ones anyway do the same, can't say what the big guys do but would expect they check daily as they cannot afford to lose money if animals became sick or escape. Its hard work there is no question about that, we try to grow and produce as much of our own food as possible but it is the life we have chosen and I for one would not have it any other way. :)
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harry you seem to be selling birds so you do need to consider what defra says. semi wild birds would be happy. lots of flocks are. but is it the best for the birds. we allow ours to roam over our fields and i would be un happy if i did not check them each day. now if some one found injured or dead birds on your property and you could not prove that you complyed with the law then you would likely get the book thrown at you. yes i agree that the opposite is worse keeping to many in cramped conditions and in poor enviroments would be worse.
Schedule 1, paragraph 2 of the Welfare of
Farmed Animals Regulations (England) 2000
(S.I. 2000 No. 1870) requires that:
- All animals kept in husbandry systems in
which their welfare depends on frequent
human attention shall be thoroughly inspected
at least once a day to check that they are in a
state of well-being.
- Animals kept in systems other than
husbandry systems in which their welfare
depends on frequent human attention shall be
inspected at intervals sufficient to avoid any
suffering.
Schedule 1, paragraph 3 states that:
Where animals are kept in a building adequate
lighting (whether fixed or portable) shall be
available to enable them to be thoroughly
inspected at any time.
Schedule 3D, paragraph 1 of the Welfare of
Farmed Animals (England) (Amendment)
Regulations 2002 (S.I. 2002 No.1646)
states that:
All hens must be inspected by the owner or
person responsible for the hens at least once a day.
Schedule 3D, paragraph 6 of the Welfare of
Farmed Animals (England) (Amendment)
Regulations 2002 (S.I. 2002 No.1646) states
that:
the above for layers/meat birds.
if you feed bill is getting to high find some way of killing or excluding the crows.
were not getting at you but please have a re think about your idea.
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I do not always agree with DEFRA rules - but they are there and thats it. As to whether we follow them, well , thats upto the individual.
I think DEFRA and probably the RSPCA would say there is a welfare issue involved in what you are proposing to do, and could probably take steps on the matter if they wished. I am sure you poultry is healthy etc......but by not attending to them daily you are flaunting the law in DEFRA's eyes. Also, there a a lot of people who will be concerned if they do not see someone feeding the hens daily, and may even report the matter to the RSPCA.
My poultry roam the fields until dark, but go inside at night. Doing this I can immediatly see if any are ill or not looking right, or indeed missing, and I will do my best to find them if this is the case. Your hens would become wild, so how would you catch them if they needed treatment etc?
I appreciate what you are saying about having long hours at work. I have been there, until recently working 12-15 hours a day, and having to feed all my livestock at both ends of the day as well. I was rushed off my feet and tired, but there is no way I could not check and feed all the animals and birds I have.
I think we will all have our own opinions on this, and as the end of the day it is up to you what you do. But as a a long standing livestock and poultry owner (35 years) I would have to say I would not do it this way.
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i would have no problems with defra or rspca paying me a visit.... with all the space provided i was asking do hens etc need feeding every day?. the problems with a lot of domestic animals is overfeeding by owners, and by the way thats now a major problem with humans. If we ate about 3/4 of what we now eat we would be a healthier nation, i bet my birds would be the same, who actually knows whats in these pellets anyway? My birds dont want to go in a night, i have 5 chicken houses and they roost on the roofs, and in the trees etc. what happens is i think the cockeral started it and the hens followed, ive looked at them in the winter roosting with snow etc on them, i pick some of them up in the dark put them in the shed and next night their back on the roof so chickens dont need to be housed at night, no nasty mites that come out of the woodwork to bite them every night, probably better heathier than housed birds, and my ducks wont go in of their own occord, so it would be wrong of me to force them inside.
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I overheard someone in the shop this morning saying that they never feed their hens in the summer as there is lots of food to go at. I don't know how I feel about that . I feed my girls twice a day and thats the time I check them over and count them.
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its not the feeding. you can get auto systems. but you have to check them every day. wether you choose to feed them with pellets or corn etc is your choice. i would think not supplying them feed during the summer would have a bad effect on there laying or meat production.
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i almost agree but i dont think never feed in summer, feed every other day at least, someone did a survey once about how many insects there are in a square yard of field = something silly sevaral thousand or something like that
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I don't think the type of food, or either lack of, or abundance of, is an issue here. I think most of us on here would prefer to follow Defra guidelines on this occasion - whether law or not they are sensible for once. If you do not check your animals at least once a day you cannot pick up on their well-being or illness, and that is what is of utmost importance to most people who raise animals/poultry on a smaller scale than commercial ones, whether 3 birds or 103. JMHO
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even commercial ones will want to check there birds often, imagine losing a 100,000 because they did'nt spot a bug quickly enough.
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all i can think is their must be some very stressed highly strung poultry about kept in less than perfect conditions if they need checking twice a day as defra guidlines. Maybe defra are taking into consideration ignorant owners which they know are about.
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i think the guidance was intended for the larger units. hence walking within 3m to check the hens. now just imagine something went wrong on say day 1 just after you had been to feed them. lets say one has got stuck in something by the time your back on day 3 its dead and odds on being eaten by its fellow chucks. You say your hens stay out over winter, have you had no problems with frostbite. i doubt its for ignorant owners just what the welfare folks feel they need. We have a problem with gulls just now if we were not at hand to deal with the problem IE bird netting and shooting the odd gull. we would end up with all our half grown chick gone. in your case you would not know until most of the hens had been killed or maimed.
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A couple on here lost all their hens - two legged thieves - their land was a distance away from their home. I know they checked them everyday. I just wouldn't have my animals anywhere I couldn't see them from my house. Just my personal views.