The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: wrekin wanderer on June 12, 2013, 01:12:33 pm
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Hi there,
This last year has been my first for keeping sheep, although my wife is an ex-navajo sheep herder, and we chose to have some Soay for their hardiness and self-reliance. They had been fantastic up to about three monthes ago. We introduced a new ram and he was amazing looking and had these superb long legs, looked like one of those American Football "jocks". Well with these he would literally hop over any fence in font of him. And not long after, the rest of the flock would follow. So he had to go to the freezer. For a few weeks afterwards things were more tranquil and I enjoyed not having to chase the sheep back onto our land. However recently they have been committing the ultimate offence and getting into the veg garden! After raising the height of the fence and using an electric scare wire failed they have been tethered and are for sale.
So we'll be looking for some new sheep. Our fencing is stock netting 80cms. I don't really want to go any higher or with electric, if I can help it as we don't want to turn our little place - about a hectare into a high security sheep prison. We also have some Kune Kune pigs...
Therefore I wanted to pick your brains. Do all sheep jump to greener pastures given the chance? Our hedges will need another few years to screen these off.
The lambs will be for our family's meat consumption, and ideally we would like more than one lamb off our one ewe and we're happy to have a ram. Interested in Romanov's for their litter like ability for birthing, but hear that they have their fair share of problems. We have someone fairly close by who raises Romonov x Texel, also Romonov x Soay and Romanov x Cameroon. I've heard that Cameroons are pretty good at jumping too, so that perhaps leaves the Texel cross as an interesting option. I've also heard that Suffolks tend to be a quieter breed.
I would be very grateful for your thoughts and recomendations....
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You do need at least one wire above the netting to keep in almost any breed, I would think. Trouble is some of the smaller breeds are better jumpers and the bigger breeds have longer legs :-))))
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Fence sounds a bit low for any sheep. (sheep will jump most sheep hurdles if provoked ).
Hill and mountain breeds are rather more likely to jump than down breeds.
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We have kept Soay for about 3 years. No doubt they can jump but so far :fc: none have chosen to. In fact, in terms of escape or getting where they shouldn't they have been no problem at all. We have standard stock fence but we do have hedges around most of the land as well and where there is no hedge we have added a top bar. This has been sufficient to keep the tup separate from last years ewe lambs as well.
Only time I have seen them try to jump is when they are cornered ie, in hurdled area for handling, and then it's only one or two that would choose to do that.
Lots of sheep make it out up here but think most get through gaps rather than jump.
Can you tether sheep? :-\
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Thanks for your replies.
What height fence/top wire would you think would be sufficient?
In the hills: am glad your Soay have behaved themselves. They are just such intelligent sheep, once they've done it once it's carnage! I thought you couldn't tether sheep, remember John Seymour saying he had a sheep that died when he tethered it. However, it was last straw and I reasoned that Soay aren't really sheep anyway - more like a goaty deer. They have been fine, I untangle them every now and again. Anyway won't be for long, people coming tomorrow to have a look...
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That was my first thought when you said they were tethered. One of mine nearly strangled itself on a really quite short piece of baler twine ::) :o . Know what you mean about goat like though and yes they are pretty clever. Sorry they haven't worked out for you.
Think our fence with top bar is about 3ft 6 inches or so .
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Ryelands are very laid back and even 80cms would be too much effort for mine to jump
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It has to be southdowns for the ultimate docility in my experience. No need to for extra strand, the height of normal stock netting keeps them in. They are short and stocky, and extremely greedy, which makes herding a lot easier. Twins are the norm, bit they are a woolly breed, so need to be treated to prevent fly strike. Top sheep :thumbsup:
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I'd suggest Ryelands too, very laid back.
When I had Dad's here, the tup looked longingly over the wall where there were ewes the other side, but he made no effort to get to them - my Shetland tups would have been over in a flash!
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we have downs too, i have four stands of wight thin (because it cuts through the wool!) eclectic line up and so far they never touch it in fact I only electrify the middle two lines
because there the most likely to touch, so it keeps the earth clean of any weeds and grass and ensures a good crack when they do get accidentally to close. so they don't do it again. as I am sure you know it is completely pycological as I have seen a down knock down a grilled, tensioned fence because it was scared and trying to escape, -a dog ! they are very strong until the point where they raise there heads. with downs thats not too high.
Also it is different in the first years before there first lambing. after they settle and i imagine jumping an electric scare wire with udders is not so appealing...
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Makes me wonder. Is it a case of the heavier the breed the less likely they are to jump? Like chickens and flight?
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:wave:
Previous people here had Lincoln Longwools and no problem. We get Balwen Welsh Mountain and find the ram can jump a three foot fence from standing, four foot fence with a run and a 5 foot beck!
:idea: You've seen the cross country... Sheep jumps internal three foot fence, lands on about three feet od space, jumps 5 foot beck, runs up field, jumps five foot beck, jumps four foot fence, eats trees in back garden!! That's our Jack!!!! :sheep:
:roflanim:
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The farm above me keep a horned breed called lonks, they are the local pennine breed and are massive but they have no problems jumping a 4 foot wall or fence. I've always found it surprising how high any animal can jump, watching the local Roe Deer just pop the largest fences is amazing, but the other day when I let my Balwens out of the pen one of the lambs easily was six feet in the air just jumping with joy.
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Yeh, Rough Fells and Lonks are mountain sheep - very big, huge fleeces, a lot of bone, and very lively!
I used to have Roughs, and Lonks are closely related.
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How about castlemilk moorits.
Doug's moorits, that are STILL staying here, are quite content to stay in the field . The ram talks to my neighbours texel and speckle faced ewes through the fence but has never tried to get to them - and there's a stile, he wouldn't even have to jump.
Having said that I'll be chasing around a 10acre field tomorrow.
They're for sale if you'd like them.
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As a general rule lowland meaty sheep are heavier, less athletic and less inclined to escape than hill/native breeds as they are bred to be hardy and with that comes the flightiness and athletic ability. The other consideration is once sheep have got out a couple of times they are pretty much guaranteed to keep doing so. At that point we always sell the offenders if we cant move them.
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I currently have Castlemilk Moorits, Shetland crosses and Manx Loaghtans. The CMs have not, so far, jumped a fence or wall. One of the Manxes does, the other doesn't. The Shetland with some Blue-faced Leicester in doesn't jump, all the other Shetland crosses, including the lambs (2 from Manx mums, 2 from Charollais crosses) travel wherever they want; walls especially seem to be just vertical roads! :D
Oh, and my 4 CM wethers never jumped a fence or wall either. Mind, you do have to be gentle and keep the pressure low-key when gathering.
I couldn't be without them now, though. :love: :sheep: : I love my 'funny little sheep'.
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Please don't tether your sheep - get fencing!! If your sheep jump your fences they obviously aren't high enough - it doesn't matter what height fence sheep usually can be contained with - yours obviously are'nt high enough. At the end of the day you are responsible for the welfare of animals in your care and tethering isn't caring for them. Sorry but it has to be said.
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are your fences really 2ft6" ? that seems incredibly low. my soays used to jump but they never left my land so it wasnt a problem - tho i did sell them for that reason as i used to worry they'd escape onto the main road. wev had a few breeds and none others jumped.
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My fences are really 80cms. When I was doing the fencing my dad gave me the BTCV fencing book and in there it had fencing for sheep starting at 75cms height. So, I thought 80cms would be the way to go.
Gives me a smile reading so many of the responses of your amazing jumping sheep ;D! You're right Mooney, once they start they have to go....
Shygirl: Get fencing. Hmmmm, easier said than done! Lots to do and fencing certainly not top of the list and as I said i prefer lower than higher.
Shep: Tethering. Always open to debate. Why is it okay to tether some animals, eg. goats and not others? Of course I would always prefer not to tether given the choice. However, for me it's a question of animal welfare that they are tethered, if they weren't tethered they would have been butchered by now! I check on them about three times a day. Each time I check they are less tangled up, as I said Soay are highly intelligent. They are also doing a fine job of eating the brambles where I have them and what with them doing work for me rather than the other way around, I am much more loving towards them!
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Not a goat keeper.
Is it still considered okay to tether goats?
Having had the experience of finding a Soay half strangled on a really short piece of dangling twine, I do have some worries about tethering. I would have thought it very easy if a number of individuals are tethered for them to get tangled or worse and do themselves real damage. Although intelligent (up to a point) I'm not so sure that they could learn not to get tangled.
They could get in trouble at night, which is when my wether got tangled. I was lucky to find him in time and learnt my lesson. The twine was only just long enough to wrap around his neck but he managed it.
Would it be possible to improve fencing in just a small area until your sheep are sold.
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No it is not ok to tether goats! Nuff said really :-\
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I have a Ryeland ram who has never tried to get through normal stock fencing even when in a paddock in sight of the ewes, he grazed with some wethers and has never been a problem. Then I got a Zwartbles ram, well this ram (even though he had his own ewes) jumped - or should I say bulldozed - his way through two fields to get to a flock of Gotlands. My stock fencing has a line of mains electric on top but this proved no match for Tas! He is now confined to a field that is fully hedged and gated, if I didn't have this I am not sure what I would have done! He has produced some lovely lambs .. :-\
Some of the lambs can also jump very high - I was moving the flock into another field yesterday and one of the lambs (yes one of Tas's progeny ::) ) nearly cleared the fence, but got caught in the top wire!
I took my daughter and granddaughter to a small zoo the other day where they had sheep racing. The sheep had jumps set up and teddies strapped to their backs and ran over the jumps to get food. I was watching one of these sheep in the paddock (it was obviously one of the hurdlers), it just hopped over the stock fencing into another field like it wasn't there!
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I took my daughter and granddaughter to a small zoo the other day where they had sheep racing. The sheep had jumps set up and teddies strapped to their backs and ran over the jumps to get food. I was watching one of these sheep in the paddock (it was obviously one of the hurdlers), it just hopped over the stock fencing into another field like it wasn't there!
iv heard of pig racing and i can imagine pigs go fast for a bucket - how do they get the sheep to run? a bucket or a dog?
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The best jumping sheep I have ever seen are 2 Castlemilk Moorits that had been wondering free around here. The "owner" bought them 3 years ago and they jumped out of his paddock straight away. Since then they have basically been left to roam free around the local fields which they are now hefted to. They even had a crop of lambs last year. I have never seen anything jump like them. They can clear a 5 bar gate from a standstill. Very similar to a deer. As of yet this year they havent been seen so I am guessing they have become the victims of some idiots with dogs, guns and crossbows that have been causing problems lamping and poaching the last few months. Hopefully that will stop after the police collared them last week after months of trying but more than likely they will just get a slap on the wrist.
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No, tethering isn't ok for goats either. You have to sort out fencing to keep animals safe, before you keep them.
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I would also say that tethering is a welfare issue.
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I would also try to give animals maximum freedom possible at all times. Fortunately any possible strangling issues have been avoided as the sheep are tied by their horns...
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I think you will find, DEFRA Guidelines, that tethering any animal by the horns IS a welfare issue !!!!!! :o
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I think you will find, DEFRA Guidelines, that tethering any animal by the horns IS a welfare issue !!!!!! :o
Most definitely a welfare issue!!!! Horns are part of the skull sinus and can break off! For goodness sake sort some fencing.....sorry to be blunt but sometimes I am where animal welfare is concerned :o
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I think wrekin wanderer is maybe a bit of a windup merchant... :stir:
Where I grew up, there was a saying about "being led around the Wrekin" :-J
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Well, if that's true, does he/she really have nothing better to do with their time ::)
But that would be better than tethering animals, especially by their horns >:(
Poor do, whichever.
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Well SITN, I for one, hope that you are right.
Better of the 2 options. :rant: